How has Geelong ever had the finances to be in the VFL/AFL

[Freo Quokkas]

How have Geelong (a regional city now with a population of 187,417) been able to financially have a club the VFL/AFL since 1897? Yet Tasmania (with a little over half a million residents) and quite a history in Australian Football is unable to join. Ford (Geelong's sponsor) is closing it's Australian factory in October. Alcoa closed in recent years.

 

[base615]

How did this guy become the mayor of Geelong?

These are all good questions.

 

[thegrach]

Isn't there 600k plus on Geelong and surrounding areas?

 

[Freo Quokkas]

How did this guy become the mayor of Geelong?

These are all good questions.

He looks quite the featherless rooster (with that rooster 'comb' - hairstyle) doesn't he? Does he still crow a lot?

 

[Garlic muncher]

Phosphate from Nauru

 

[Jaeger]

Vic govt. has been pumping in tens of millions for decades.

 

[Hoops]

How have Geelong (a regional city now with a population of 187,417) been able to financially have a club the VFL/AFL since 1897? Yet Tasmania (with a little over half a million residents) and quite a history in Australian Football is unable to join. Ford (Geelong's sponsor) is closing it's Australian factory in October. Alcoa closed in recent years.

It's called having a history, I wouldn't expect you to understand.

 

[Muggs]

How have Geelong (a regional city now with a population of 187,417) been able to financially have a club the VFL/AFL since 1897? Yet Tasmania (with a little over half a million residents) and quite a history in Australian Football is unable to join. Ford (Geelong's sponsor) is closing it's Australian factory in October. Alcoa closed in recent years.

Ok let me have a go at this now it's on its proper board.

First of all the VFL days are irrelevant, you had the TSL (in it's various forms) since what 1879?. So really only the AFL days are important.

Population wise the population of Greater Geelong is greater than that of Hobart (your numbers are under on current estimates) if you count the whole of Tasmania than you need to count the Geelong catchment region, including the south western suburbs of Melbourne and the south west of the state Geelong catchment population is greater as thegrach pointed out. With Tasmania population growth barely positive (and some forecasts have it negative) this difference is going to grow. So Geelong has a better population base to support a team.

One difference with the population is that Geelong is a natural center, would a Tasmanian team be based just in Hobart or would it have a second location in Launceston? I would suspect to be a true Tasmanian team it would need to play in both locations, maybe not a 50/50 split, but a 1/3rd of the games? This though would lead to increased costs (and no other team to share stadium costs with). So not only would you have the increased cost of any non Victorian team in traveling, you would also have increased costs to play a number of your home games. Most of Geelong's away games are still in Victoria. So Geelong has some financial advantages over any proposed Tasmanian team.

Can Tasmaina financially support a team independently of the AFL or would it need ongoing support like the northern clubs? The financial issues the state league and team have had would suggest this is difficult, but it could be argued that a lot of issues with the Tasmaina league was due to the AFL anyway.

So let's assume for the time being that Tasmaina can support it's own team, this would be at the cost of the arrangements that Tasmania already has with the AFL, in particular North Melbourne and Hawthorn. So how does this grow the AFL? If they can support them today with the long term economic challenges Tasamina faces would this be the case into the future? The costs of running a football team are increasing much faster than the economy as a whole.

If a Tasmanian team needs ongoing support from the AFL what's the return on investment to the AFL? Tasmaina is already an AFL state, tv ratings are already decent, while there may be a boost with Tasmainans wanting to support their own team how big would this really be? The potential for growth is fairly small I would think and as I mentioned above Tasmaina population is fairly stagnate so no real long term growth. There is no other sport to try and take market share away from. The AFL has already largely killed the Tasmian league so can't really take supporters away from the state league as occurred in SA and WA. So what is the incentive for the AFL? With the northern expansion clubs you have a non traditional market and population growth (hence potential long term growth) - neither of which apply for a Tasmanian team.

While a number of Victorian teams are dependent on the AFL for ongoing funding as pointed out by Hoops they have history on their side. Being part of the VFL that become the AFL makes them hard to get rid of. The general growth in AFL team membership over the last 20 years has made it hard to relocate or merge teams, what was possible in the mid 90s just not possible today.

So if you arguing that Tasmiana should have a team based on them being able to support it financially I think it's a losing argument.

I think it would be great if Tasmina could have a team, it is the Australian football league after all. I just can't see it happening while the AFL is focused on revenue.

 

[calyam]

It is fascinating that Geelong were in the league from the beginning since travel back then would have been a) more time consuming and b) quite costly. All the other teams were pretty closely positioned.

Geelong also benefits from proximity to Melbourne and its bigger population. They played 8 games in Geelong this season, which means that they play in Melbourne quite frequently. As a result, they have been able to draw support from Geelong and Melbourne, which has created a degree of financial success that wouldn't otherwise be possible.

 

[Rob]

Isn't there 600k plus on Geelong and surrounding areas?

About 5 million I think.

 

[madmug]

Ok let me have a go at this now it's on its proper board.

First of all the VFL days are irrelevant, you had the TSL (in it's various forms) since what 1879?. So really only the AFL days are important.

Population wise the population of Greater Geelong is greater than that of Hobart (your numbers are under on current estimates) if you count the whole of Tasmania than you need to count the Geelong catchment region, including the south western suburbs of Melbourne and the south west of the state Geelong catchment population is greater as thegrach pointed out. With Tasmania population growth barely positive (and some forecasts have it negative) this difference is going to grow. So Geelong has a better population base to support a team.

One difference with the population is that Geelong is a natural center, would a Tasmanian team be based just in Hobart or would it have a second location in Launceston? I would suspect to be a true Tasmanian team it would need to play in both locations, maybe not a 50/50 split, but a 1/3rd of the games? This though would lead to increased costs (and no other team to share stadium costs with). So not only would you have the increased cost of any non Victorian team in traveling, you would also have increased costs to play a number of your home games. Most of Geelong's away games are still in Victoria. So Geelong has some financial advantages over any proposed Tasmanian team.

Can Tasmaina financially support a team independently of the AFL or would it need ongoing support like the northern clubs? The financial issues the state league and team have had would suggest this is difficult, but it could be argued that a lot of issues with the Tasmaina league was due to the AFL anyway.

So let's assume for the time being that Tasmaina can support it's own team, this would be at the cost of the arrangements that Tasmania already has with the AFL, in particular North Melbourne and Hawthorn. So how does this grow the AFL? If they can support them today with the long term economic challenges Tasamina faces would this be the case into the future? The costs of running a football team are increasing much faster than the economy as a whole.

If a Tasmanian team needs ongoing support from the AFL what's the return on investment to the AFL? Tasmaina is already an AFL state, tv ratings are already decent, while there may be a boost with Tasmainans wanting to support their own team how big would this really be? The potential for growth is fairly small I would think and as I mentioned above Tasmaina population is fairly stagnate so no real long term growth. There is no other sport to try and take market share away from. The AFL has already largely killed the Tasmian league so can't really take supporters away from the state league as occurred in SA and WA. So what is the incentive for the AFL? With the northern expansion clubs you have a non traditional market and population growth (hence potential long term growth) - neither of which apply for a Tasmanian team.

While a number of Victorian teams are dependent on the AFL for ongoing funding as pointed out by Hoops they have history on their side. Being part of the VFL that become the AFL makes them hard to get rid of. The general growth in AFL team membership over the last 20 years has made it hard to relocate or merge teams, what was possible in the mid 90s just not possible today.

So if you arguing that Tasmiana should have a team based on them being able to support it financially I think it's a losing argument.

I think it would be great if Tasmina could have a team, it is the Australian football league after all. I just can't see it happening while the AFL is focused on revenue.

Dyslexia is a curse. But Dyslexia for one word is surely a new phenomenon. Tasmania or Tassie is usually enough choice. Maybe its different for a Vicrian?

 

[Muggs]

Dyslexia is a curse. But Dyslexia for one word is surely a new phenomenon. Tasmania or Tassie is usually enough choice. Maybe its different for a Vicrian?

Damn typing on ipad....

 

[madmug]

Damn typing on ipad....

Yeh, bludi eye peds

 

[Quivorir]

Damn typing on ipad....

Your iPad auto corrected to a word that doesn't exist other than a foreign last name?

 

[madmug]

About 5 million I think.

Nearly.

But 10 clubs to fight over them

 

[Muggs]

Your iPad auto corrected to a word that doesn't exist other than a foreign last name?

Wont always autocorrect words staring with a capital, wish it bloody did so when I do stupid typos like that it fix them for me!

 

[telsor]

About 5 million I think.

Victoria cracked 6 Million a short while back and is fairly clearly the fastest growing state currently.

http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/mf/3101.0


and one for madmug Tasmania isn't the lowest growth any more...NT was (slightly) lower.

 

[djpaulydemon]

Geelong are the second oldest team. Around 1861 Melbourne had maybe 10 x the population of Geelong and because of the gold rush and its effect on regional towns Melbourne only had 23% of the Victorian population.

At the formation of the VFA Geelong would have had bigger populations to draw from than many of the suburbs of Melbourne it played against, but Melbourne had a massive population and wealth boom in the 1880's and once the VFL was formed the fact that Geelong didn't win a premiership until the 20's probably reflects the change.

 

[telsor]

Geelong are the second oldest team. Around 1861 Melbourne had maybe 10 x the population of Geelong and because of the gold rush and its effect on regional towns Melbourne only had 23% of the Victorian population.

At the formation of the VFA Geelong would have had bigger populations to draw from than many of the suburbs of Melbourne it played against, but Melbourne had a massive population and wealth boom in the 1880's and once the VFL was formed the fact that Geelong didn't win a premiership until the 20's probably reflects the change.

Not so much the gold rush as the more agrarian society...Less technology meant a much bigger % of the population needed to be growing food to feed the rest.

 

[sportsmaniac89]

Please don't be a Freo supporter

Looks at the OP

Awwww s**t

Geelong is in that rare position where they get the best of both worlds. They get 7-8 games in Geelong and then play the biggest drawing games in Melbourne thus making extra dollars. I'm not saying this is a bad thing at all because it actually makes good business sense.

They are the second oldest club in the league and they've built a following as a result of that and years of hard work.

 

[JohnZ]

Please don't be a Freo supporter

Looks at the OP

Awwww s**t

Geelong is in that rare position where they get the best of both worlds. They get 7-8 games in Geelong and then play the biggest drawing games in Melbourne thus making extra dollars. I'm not saying this is a bad thing at all because it actually makes good business sense.

They are the second oldest club in the league and they've built a following as a result of that and years of hard work.

We make more money playing at KP than any docklands game, and the crowds at MCG have to be right up there (80k+) to match KP

 

[telsor]

We make more money playing at KP than any docklands game, and the crowds at MCG have to be right up there (80k+) to match KP

Don't worry about him, West Australians live in this bizarro world when fans attending games actually contributes financially to the club.

 

[Bomberboyokay]

Grandfathered into the professional era due to joining the VFL a thousand years ago (some smaller Melbourne clubs also fall into this category). If there wasn't a club in Geelong in 2016 you wouldn't add one there now.

 

[JohnZ]

Grandfathered into the professional era due to joining the VFL a thousand years ago (some smaller Melbourne clubs also fall into this category). If there wasn't a club in Essendon in 2016 you wouldn't add one there now.

FTFY