Expansion ? How important for AFL to be first and only true National competition by including Tassie + NT

[madmug]

Neither Tas or the NT can justify the romantic notion of having a full time AFL team based in those cities
Hobart is barely as big as Geelong who have massive support in the rest of Victoria and Darwin is about the same size as Bendigo and that city couldnt support an AFL team either.
The AFL matches played in those cities currently are sufficient.The famous Tassie Hawks rarely fill York Park Launceston as it is.

Geelong has massive support, Melbourne has massive support, Hawthorn has massive support. All the Vic teams have massive support dont they.
The fact is they have an average of 550k per team in Victoria & support is not evenly spread.
A Tas team would get support here & through its wide diaspora, through Gument & business. It would go well. But the VicAFL Cant be wrong, so we wait.
Criticising Launceston for not fully supporting a FIFO club which brings the same low rating games year after year is a bit rude. You'd get sick of it too.

 

[Established1870]

Alright, so idiots understand that they don't know what they're talking about with Tassie and finances being too poor to sustain a side, let's bring out the list:

1) Tassie's 08 AFL bid managed to get Mars, an international snack food company with an endless pit of money and bigger name recognition then Metricon or Skoda will ever have. Couple that with the tourism industry there who'd undoubtedly sponsor a Tassie side too and that's already a fair bit of dough in the coffers. Then you'd have all the local business who through opportunity or love would back a Tassie side.

Another multinational corporation or two would back a Tassie side as well, they were close to getting this in 08. And hey, look, no AFL subsidies and state government support and they've already got more than enough to sustain a side. Throw in government support regardless of party and they'd be in the black constantly.

2) A Tassie side that played evenly at Aurora and Blundstone would have the 4th best stadium deal in the league, according to actual economist and not just BF poster Saul Eslake. I don't know exact estimates but if both filled out all season they'd make money around the eight digit mark. Still no AFL subsidies in this

3) Surveys done in 08 found that just under half the state supported a Tassie AFL bid, with even numbers in North and South, showing that the divide is not a lot more than a mythical argument started by people who don't know what they're talking about. Does the divide exist? Yes, but in the manner in which it used to. Same surveys said that a 5th of the population of Tassie would become members and go to games. In rough numbers, that's 100,000 people.

Also factor in the generational shift and it wouldn't be out of the question to see Tassie supported by 70-80% of the state, with sold out home games the norm. Also throw in interstate support and the huge amount of Tasmanians in Victoria who'd make the switch and this club could become a powerhouse membership wise.

4) This isn't related to finance but moreso talent but it still makes sense mentioning. A Tassie side with an Academy, TAC Cup side and VFL side would easily be half or even three quarters local in 10-20 years, meaning retention is virtually a none issue. For those who question Tassie's ability to retain players, let me ask you this; Have you ever had 300k pa with the potential for more dangled in your face to play a sport you love on the condition you move interstate? No? Alrighty then. Do you think people want to willingly live in Adelaide?

 

[speedpeck23]

Neither Tas or the NT can justify the romantic notion of having a full time AFL team based in those cities
Hobart is barely as big as Geelong who have massive support in the rest of Victoria and Darwin is about the same size as Bendigo and that city couldnt support an AFL team either.
The AFL matches played in those cities currently are sufficient.The famous Tassie Hawks rarely fill York Park Launceston as it is.

The case for Tassie is gaining momentum big time. They need a running partner... imo NT should be it. These clubs would be more about the AFL using its influence to promote connection and growth of these smaller communities. The pay back to the game would be enormous. You would hardly have to promote a Tassie AFL team....the promotion is going on free of charge almost every day in the media. NT is different but not insurmountable. Communities support AFL all over the place, the AFL and the game would gain big time by growing it's support of communities in all states. AFL can truly be more than a game.

 

[madmug]

I somehow doubt the AFL going for 2 more sides for quite some time.
Their resources would be stretched no t only with GWS & GC, but certainly with so many welfare clubs in Victoria.
I think GC were a mistake. The sports history if GC tells us they dont support sport. Its a beach holiday place. Thats all.
It all depends on when/if the AFL get sick of stumping up year after year for the same old problem clubs & or the GC.
GWS will tell a tail if they drop off. A lot of memberships would be purchased as a way to get finals tickets. It'll be interesting to see how both GWS & GC grow off field in the next 5 years.

 

[Gigantor]

Brisbane or the Gold Coast can't hold onto any non-Queenslanders, and people on here reckon a Tassie club would be able to keep non-Tasmanians in Hobart?

Even if you solve the sponsorship issue, a Tassie team would struggle to retain its draft picks beyond the initial 2 year contract.

 

[madmug]

Brisbane or the Gold Coast can't hold onto any non-Queenslanders, and people on here reckon a Tassie club would be able to keep non-Tasmanians in Hobart?

Even if you solve the sponsorship issue, a Tassie team would struggle to retain its draft picks beyond the initial 2 year contract.

Those on TCA cricket contracts seem ok about the place.
I bet GWS players aren't their because they love Blacktown. Hahahaha

 

[Gigantor]

Those on TCA cricket contracts seem ok about the place.
I bet GWS players aren't their because they love Blacktown. Hahahaha

True, luckily they don't need to live in Blacktown.

An AFL list has at least 38 players on them, at least 30 of those will need to come from the mainland (no Tasmanians were drafted last year for example).

30 is a lot of players to move to Tassie, and nothing against Hobart, I love it as a place and have vistied many times, but if Brissie and the Gold Coast can't hold onto players, I doubt Hobart can hold onto 30 young footballers. You only need to have 4 or 5 per year to fall to the go-home factor for the whole thing to implode.

In fact, Hobart can't even hold onto its own 18 to 25 year olds, asking a lot to expect 30 non-Tasmanians to live in Hobart for 8 to 12 years.

 

[BobbyMorri]

True, luckily they don't need to live in Blacktown.

An AFL list has at least 38 players on them, at least 30 of those will need to come from the mainland (no Tasmanians were drafted last year for example).

30 is a lot of players to move to Tassie, and nothing against Hobart, I love it as a place and have vistied many times, but if Brissie and the Gold Coast can't hold onto players, I doubt Hobart can hold onto 30 young footballers. You only need to have 4 or 5 per year to fall to the go-home factor for the whole thing to implode.

In fact, Hobart can't even hold onto its own 18 to 25 year olds, asking a lot to expect 30 non-Tasmanians to live in Hobart for 8 to 12 years.

That has more to do with employment and opportunities than anything else.

It is only 2 hours to get on a plane and travel to the mainland.

 

[madmug]

True, luckily they don't need to live in Blacktown.

An AFL list has at least 38 players on them, at least 30 of those will need to come from the mainland (no Tasmanians were drafted last year for example).

30 is a lot of players to move to Tassie, and nothing against Hobart, I love it as a place and have vistied many times, but if Brissie and the Gold Coast can't hold onto players, I doubt Hobart can hold onto 30 young footballers. You only need to have 4 or 5 per year to fall to the go-home factor for the whole thing to implode.

In fact, Hobart can't even hold onto its own 18 to 25 year olds, asking a lot to expect 30 non-Tasmanians to live in Hobart for 8 to 12 years.

Currently their are 32 Tasmanians on AFL lists. How many from Sydney? Enough for 2 clubs? No, they recruited & used the COLA to pay above the odds.

Its really about the culture. Brisbane had no problems winning 3 flags in a row. Right now they are trying to rebuild the right culture. GC started with a shyte culture. Its been a problem with GC sports. Rodney Eade was brought in to change that. Both SEQ teams have a lot to do to rebuild.

Sydney spent a long time trying to get things right. It took ages but now they can recruit & hold players.

GWS are having success currently, so are holding players. Lets see how it goes when life gets tough for the club. I bet the sights of Western Sydney wont be all that appealing then then.

Tassie has a footy culture which helps make it attractive for footballers.

Also NO club keeps 30 players for 8-12 years. Check it out.

 

[madmug]

That has more to do with employment and opportunities than anything else.

It is only 2 hours to get on a plane and travel to the mainland.

Hobart to Melbourne is 1 hour. 2.45 direct to Brisbane. 1.50 direct to Sydney

 

[Our Game]

Brisbane or the Gold Coast can't hold onto any non-Queenslanders, and people on here reckon a Tassie club would be able to keep non-Tasmanians in Hobart?

Even if you solve the sponsorship issue, a Tassie team would struggle to retain its draft picks beyond the initial 2 year contract.

Yes its a lovely idea for poor little Tassie to have their own team but its not viable Not now not ever!

Where is the $50 = 70 million needed to run an AFL club per year to come from - not the Tassie government they are broke and rely on handouts from Canberra to stay afloat

Even the bloody Bass Strait ferries run a millions of dollars losses each year once again the tab is picked by the Australian taxpayers!

They are not called the ABC state for nothing.

 

[madmug]

Yes its a lovely idea for poor little Tassie to have their own team but its not viable Not now not ever!

Where is the $50 = 70 million needed to run an AFL club per year to come from - not the Tassie government they are broke and rely on handouts from Canberra to stay afloat

Even the bloody Bass Strait ferries run a millions of dollars losses each year once again the tab is picked by the Australian taxpayers!

They are not called the ABC state for nothing.

Childish attempts at sarcasm dont really add much to your argument, whatever your point is.

You need to look at what AFL clubs generate, what they get handed to them by the AFL & their memberships. Some of them in Victoria are way below your $50million. So why are they their?

 

[McCrann]

There does not need to be a team in those places. The USA have four big national leagues and 24 states (yes almost half of the states) have zero teams over all four leagues. This doesn't change how the leagues themselves make a profit and stay relevant. Not having a team in Tasmania, NT or the ACT means very little.

I think if you read up a bit more on Big Footy what that means is that there are no - NONE - National sporting competitions in the USA.

Truly an indictment on the NFL, NBA etc.

Just keep reading Big Footy and you'll come to learn that not having a team in Wyoming means an American sporting competition can not truly call itself 'National'.

 

[madmug]

I think if you read up a bit more on Big Footy what that means is that there are no - NONE - National sporting competitions in the USA.

Truly an indictment on the NFL, NBA etc.

Just keep reading Big Footy and you'll come to learn that not having a team in Wyoming means an American sporting competition can not truly call itself 'National'.

Just be thankful your suburb still has an AFL club named after it.

Its certainly not because of any success either on or off the field its had, thats for sure.

 

[Our Game]

Childish attempts at sarcasm dont really add much to your argument, whatever your point is.

You need to look at what AFL clubs generate, what they get handed to them by the AFL & their memberships. Some of them in Victoria are way below your $50million. So why are they their?

I wasnt being sarcastic I mean what I said that Tassie would eventually be on the drip feed from the AFL and state government

I would rather see the the AFL spend what is basiclly the AFL clubs money on growing the game in new areas that will lead to growth and western Sydney with over 2+ million people is that area as against a stagnant State with an ageing population of only 518,000

 

[madmug]

I wasnt being sarcastic I mean what I said that Tassie would eventually be on the drip feed from the AFL and state government

I would rather see the the AFL spend what is basiclly the AFL clubs money on growing the game in new areas that will lead to growth and western Sydney with over 2+ million people is that area as against a stagnant State with an ageing population of only 518,000

Thank you for your 'analysis' then. Although I suppose its all ok to have so many 'established' clubs on drip feed now & forever more? Its Ok I suppose, they deserve it & no one else deseves anything for contributing so much to the game for so long.
Its a bit like the born to rule mentality. It breeds contempt, laziness & inequity.

 

[Walshawk]

Brisbane or the Gold Coast can't hold onto any non-Queenslanders, and people on here reckon a Tassie club would be able to keep non-Tasmanians in Hobart?

Even if you solve the sponsorship issue, a Tassie team would struggle to retain its draft picks beyond the initial 2 year contract.

That is because the Qld teams are hopeless. Was never an issue 15 years ago when The Lions were winning.

 

[Walshawk]

To answer the OP, Tasmania and Canberra are vital to the AFL being the number nation competition. NT way to small and fragmented a market.
GWS become Western Sydney.
Enter Canberra RAMS and Tassie.

 

[Gigantor]

That is because the Qld teams are hopeless. Was never an issue 15 years ago when The Lions were winning.

Well, if you have to rely on consecutive premierships to hold onto players, that's a touch problematic.

Player retention is a real issue, especially as the labour market starts freeing up a bit and even recent draftees are becoming emboldened to leave as soon as they can.

We would need approx. 30 18 to 23 year olds to live in Hobart for up to 10 years, and they are going to have trouble keeping them there.

That would be the reality.

 

[Garlic muncher]

To answer the OP, Tasmania and Canberra are vital to the AFL being the number nation competition. NT way to small and fragmented a market.
GWS become Western Sydney.
Enter Canberra RAMS and Tassie.

RAMS

Riverina, ACT, Murrumbidgee and South Coast.

I think that's what it initially was meant to stand for.

 

[madmug]

Well, if you have to rely on consecutive premierships to hold onto players, that's a touch problematic.

Player retention is a real issue, especially as the labour market starts freeing up a bit and even recent draftees are becoming emboldened to leave as soon as they can.

We would need approx. 30 18 to 23 year olds to live in Hobart for up to 10 years, and they are going to have trouble keeping them there.

That would be the reality.

The reality is very few players last all that long. The average AFL 'life' span is 6 years. Two years are already guaranteed when they get drafted. So their is already a lot of churn through injury & lack of the ability to make the grade at senior AFL level. So their arent that many who get the go home factor. Some may, but dont end up going. In the end its about club culture & how the individual adapts & accepts a clubs culture.
IMO it'll be a very minor issue. I think its a bigger issue in places which aren't established footy areas. Sydney & SEQ aren't real footy areas.

 

[BobbyMorri]

Well, if you have to rely on consecutive premierships to hold onto players, that's a touch problematic.

Player retention is a real issue, especially as the labour market starts freeing up a bit and even recent draftees are becoming emboldened to leave as soon as they can.

We would need approx. 30 18 to 23 year olds to live in Hobart for up to 10 years, and they are going to have trouble keeping them there.

That would be the reality.

could you please look at a map and see that we are a part of Australia. We have a University, pubs and even clubs. we have a pro cricket team which currently has more mainlanders than Tasmanians in the squad. Our basketball SEBAL teams always get imports from all around the world. heck, Harley Bennell had no problems finding drugs in Launny. seriously you make it sound like we are forced to live down here.

As mentioned a thousand times, the brain drain which leaves Tassie has more to do with opportunities. AFL club would give these young men that opportunity.

 

[madmug]

could you please look at a map and see that we are a part of Australia. We have a University, pubs and even clubs. we have a pro cricket team which currently has more mainlanders than Tasmanians in the squad. Our basketball SEBAL teams always get imports from all around the world. heck, Harley Bennell had no problems finding drugs in Launny. seriously you make it sound like we are forced to live down here.

As mentioned a thousand times, the brain drain which leaves Tassie has more to do with opportunities. AFL club would give these young men that opportunity.

It pointless Trying to discuss this with someone who seems to think GWS has an advantage because its recruits dont actually have to live in it.

Hahahaha!!!

 

[Gigantor]

I promise you all, alongside sponsorship, player retention is the key barrier to putting a team in Tasmania. If the Gold Coast can't keep young blokes interested, Hobart doesn't stand much of a chance, even with the Salamanca markets and MONA (there are only so many times young blokes can take a look at sculptures of fannies).

 

[madmug]

I promise you all, alongside sponsorship, player retention is the key barrier to putting a team in Tasmania. If the Gold Coast can't keep young blokes interested, Hobart doesn't stand much of a chance, even with the Salamanca markets and MONA (there are only so many times young blokes can take a look at sculptures of fannies).

So apart from, seeing their accountants to invest their money, playing footy & training, what wonderful things keep the lads in GWS?