How long does the AFLW season need to be?

[Teen Wolf]

Is there also a feeling that could there be an expansion to 18 players per side on field and longer quarters ?

I reckon there's more chance of the men's game (at all levels) going to 16 players.

Longer quarters, who knows. The AFL says the games are shorter because of summer heat, though the reality is the 2 hour TV product makes life easier for them.

I'm not sure if you're referencing something I suggested on the previous page: A shortening of the half-time break would allow for more football without extending the time between first and final siren. If the rest-to-play ratio was equal to that of AFL games, half-time of AFLW games would only be about 8 minutes long (i.e. 12 mins shorter than what they are currently) and that's without accounting for the unlimited player rotations in the women's league.

Definitely should be looked into. Players spend five minutes of HT warming up again--they spend an hour warming up before the game, so this 2nd warm-up is either an unnecessary waste of time (because they haven't actually cooled down) or riskily ineffective (because they have cooled down and 5 mins is not long enough to properly warm back up).

 

[Teen Wolf]

Roughead out: Magpie women in ‘battle’ for support staff due to fixture clash

Collingwood will have to do without backline coach Jordan Roughead during Saturday’s AFLW preliminary final in Brisbane, while premiership captain Nick Maxwell may also be needed by the men’s team in Melbourne.

www.theage.com.au

"I think there's about five or six staff that are shared across both. But the club are already all over that and talking about it," Brazill said.

A situation which, from what I gather, will only happen a lot more frequently if the majority of AFLW supporters get their way in terms of the season length and structure.

And yet, predictably, when the drawbacks of an overlapping season surface, it's the AFL's fault for giving what the majority of AFLW players and fans have asked for.

 

[Munga]

Play each other once for a start. From late September to late March there are six months of "clean air". 13 rounds + 3 weeks of finals, that's only 4 months. Play 8 rounds, have 2 weeks off for Christmas/New Year break/recuperation, then complete the final 5 rounds + finals. It'll be finished by late Feb/early March.
With probable scorching temps from late November, I'd be inclined to schedule most matches from the late evening onwards, plenty of night time double headers with eastern states followed by western states.

 

[Florida Footy Fan]

Regardless of how long the season should be, what's glaringly obvious is it needs to have as little overlap with the men's comp as possible.

In the U.S., the NBA runs the WNBA in the summer, opposite the NBA, for the same reason. It's a way to give fans basketball during a time when there wouldn't be basketball otherwise, and perhaps most importantly, you aren't competing against yourself.

As Munga said, there's plenty of time to run the entire season without overlap. It gives people a chance to watch football when they otherwise wouldn't, or rather couldn't, plus it doesn't force fans who legitimately want to watch both to choose.

I think if the AFL is insistent on there being some overlap for god knows what reason (maybe so there can be doubleheaders at the Gabba, etc.), it should be the opposite. The early rounds of AFLW should run alongside the end of the AFL season (even if that means going against Finals), because right now, AFLW Finals are vying for attention and viewership versus AFL, and that's a losing proposition, as much as I wish it weren't.

 

[Teen Wolf]

Play each other once for a start. From late September to late March there are six months of "clean air". 13 rounds + 3 weeks of finals, that's only 4 months. Play 8 rounds, have 2 weeks off for Christmas/New Year break/recuperation, then complete the final 5 rounds + finals. It'll be finished by late Feb/early March.
With probable scorching temps from late November, I'd be inclined to schedule most matches from the late evening onwards, plenty of night time double headers with eastern states followed by western states.

That air starts to get pretty dirty from about mid-December onwards, with the BBL and Test cricket eating up space on Seven's schedule as well cutting into what is likely AFLW's two most valuable audience demos (young men, and families).

The two other factors that have to be considered is: 1) there'll be 18 AFLW teams soon enough, guaranteed; and 2) even the men's pre-season takes attention away from AFLW. All of that makes for a much tighter squeeze through the clean air window.

I think if the AFL is insistent on there being some overlap for god knows what reason (maybe so there can be doubleheaders at the Gabba, etc.), it should be the opposite. The early rounds of AFLW should run alongside the end of the AFL season (even if that means going against Finals), because right now, AFLW Finals are vying for attention and viewership versus AFL, and that's a losing proposition, as much as I wish it weren't.

It would imo definitely be better to do it that way. Launching on the pre-finals bye week of the men's season takes away any need for clashing fixtures.

Just one example of how to start each year...


...and then it would be business as usual with full 9-games-per-week AFLW rounds from October until season's end.

 

[Munga]

That air starts to get pretty dirty from about mid-December onwards, with the BBL and Test cricket eating up space on Seven's schedule as well cutting into what is likely AFLW's two most valuable audience demos (young men, and families).

The two other factors that have to be considered is: 1) there'll be 18 AFLW teams soon enough, guaranteed; and 2) even the men's pre-season takes attention away from AFLW. All of that makes for a much tighter squeeze through the clean air window.


It would imo definitely be better to do it that way. Launching on the pre-finals bye week of the men's season takes away any need for clashing fixtures.

Just one example of how to start each year...

...and then it would be business as usual with full 9-games-per-week AFLW rounds from October until season's end.

All the better if it goes to 18 teams, that's 17 rounds plus 4 weeks finals. 12 rounds pre Christmas, 5 rounds + 4 finals weeks post New Year. Does anyone really give a stuff about BBL? You can't be worrying about comps like that otherwise the AFLW will never be played! The Christmas/New Year break I suggested takes those two largest test matches out of the equation too.

Take this year for example. AFL GF on 25 September. That leaves 13 weeks pre Christmas. Then there's 10 or 11 weeks before round 1 AFL. Being conservative, that's 23 weeks to fit in 21 rounds of AFLW, so they could even have an extra bye or two.

The cleanest air you'll get is outside the AFLM season, there's no point playing during it, EVERYTHING gets eaten up by the AFLM media even it's own womens game. This is so obvious I shouldn't have to say it. Worrying about cricket, men's preseason, trade week, moomba, whatever else won't be workable and just excuses that'll leave us with 2 weeks for AFLW.

 

[The Victorian]

Play each other once for a start. From late September to late March there are six months of "clean air". 13 rounds + 3 weeks of finals, that's only 4 months. Play 8 rounds, have 2 weeks off for Christmas/New Year break/recuperation, then complete the final 5 rounds + finals. It'll be finished by late Feb/early March.
With probable scorching temps from late November, I'd be inclined to schedule most matches from the late evening onwards, plenty of night time double headers with eastern states followed by western states.

Would never happen. We have cross code players playing in WBBL. Also what venues to be propose having the games at? Cricket is held at most venues. The suns wouldn’t be able to use Metricon that’s for sure because of the cricket pitch.

 

[Teen Wolf]

Does anyone really give a stuff about BBL? You can't be worrying about comps like that otherwise the AFLW will never be played!

Seven and Foxtel care. And if the goal for women's footy is to get the best TV deal possible, the players and the AFL will care too.

Worrying about cricket, men's preseason, trade week, moomba, whatever else won't be workable and just excuses that'll leave us with 2 weeks for AFLW.

Nobody's worrying about trade week or Moomba or "whatever else." The point of concern is the stuff that, when aired at the same time, has proven to decimate AFLW TV ratings.

Approximately 16 weeks is therefore the workable window for maximising viewership, not 2.

 

[jatz14]

Would never happen. We have cross code players playing in WBBL. Also what venues to be propose having the games at? Cricket is held at most venues. The suns wouldn’t be able to use Metricon that’s for sure because of the cricket pitch.

Even if the AFLW an pull it off, I doubt many other leagues can, chief issue being grounds being used for other purposes.

But even footy only grounds are an issue. Off season is for grounds to recover, given the hammering some of them get.

This means we are back to AFLW being played when there isn't a comp for non selected players to play in

On moto g(6) plus using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[timokane]

Should be play each team once and the top 2 go to the GF and the GF played as a curtain raiser to the sat match at the MCG. Most of the VFL W Matches should be curtain raisers to the AFL matches during the footy season.

 

[Munga]

Would never happen. We have cross code players playing in WBBL. Also what venues to be propose having the games at? Cricket is held at most venues. The suns wouldn’t be able to use Metricon that’s for sure because of the cricket pitch.

WBBL??? I think there are too many people here being accommodating to every other event. The AFLW has to learn to stand on it's own. If it can't exist beside events like BBL/WBBL then it never will do well. Bogans who watch BBL will never be into AFLW anyway, there's no loss there.

As far as grounds, do they play cricket all summer at Moorabbin, Victoria Park, Princes Park? I really don't know the answer but I'd be surprised if they do. I would imagine that there are plenty of free grounds to utilise, we don't need 50k stadiums (except for a GF).

 

[Teen Wolf]

Bogans who watch BBL will never be into AFLW anyway, there's no loss there.

You must have access to incredibly in-depth data to make that statement, or you're just inserting your personal opinion about T20 cricket into a discussion where it doesn't belong.

The ratings reports that I've seen (where no "Bogan" demographic is mentioned) indicate AFLW ratings are cut by about 50% when matches go head-to-head with the BBL. If plummeting TV figures of that size aren't a problem worth worrying about, then the current overlap with the men's AFL season isn't a problem either.

 

[Munga]

You must have access to incredibly in-depth data to make that statement, or you're just inserting your personal opinion about T20 cricket into a discussion where it doesn't belong.

The ratings reports that I've seen (where no "Bogan" demographic is mentioned) indicate AFLW ratings are cut by about 50% when matches go head-to-head with the BBL. If plummeting TV figures of that size aren't a problem worth worrying about, then the current overlap with the men's AFL season isn't a problem either.

Do you think the Test Cricket, ODIs, A-League, W-League, NBL, Australian Open tennis, ATP Cup, Brisbane/Hobart/Adelaide International, Formula One, PGA golf etc etc....... worry about big bash? Should we try to fit in with all those other sports too?

The AFLM media suffocates and kills everything else, even it's own AFLW. Ratings is one thing, media attention is another. And do you really want to dodge around BBL so you can have a mickey mouse half season which might rate better, or would you rather the length of a fair premiership season and the respect that comes with winning that? If the life of the AFLW is just to dodge BBL season for some ratings then it's in trouble already.

 

[Teen Wolf]

Do you think the Test Cricket, ODIs, A-League, W-League, NBL, Australian Open tennis, ATP Cup, Brisbane/Hobart/Adelaide International, Formula One, PGA golf etc etc....... worry about big bash?

I know it for a fact.

Should we try to fit in with all those other sports too?

Just the ones that tend to significantly overshadow AFLW.

And do you really want to dodge around BBL so you can have a mickey mouse half season which might rate better, or would you rather the length of a fair premiership season and the respect that comes with winning that?

I'd rather a teams-play-each-other-once fixture in both men's and women's football, but it's not about what I want. I'm just explaining the reality of what would need to happen for AFLW to maximise revenue from TV, attendance, sponsorship etc while running an 18-team competition as efficiently as possible.

 

[NoobPie]

Taking as an end state that there will be a 17 round home and away season and four round finals, there seems to be two options from where I'm sitting

1. Is to keep extending as is now and ultimately playing finals through the AFL bye rounds.
2. Start in the prefinals bye round and break in mid December to January and end up playing the Grand Final in the week before the AFL season starts

Both options seem to have strengths and weaknesses

I would suggest with option (1), you will find that the men's season has settled down and almost in a relative lull by that stage and could have at least the last three rounds of the finals with clear air on Sunday's (i.e. not play any AFL game's on Sundays through the bye rounds)

Option (2) would maximise clear air but would create a range of other challenges (include ground access and condition)

I guess the decision makers would need to cast their minds forward 20 years and imagine what is likely to be a better goer at that stage

 

[Munga]

I'd rather a teams-play-each-other-once fixture in both men's and women's football, but it's not about what I want. I'm just explaining the reality of what would need to happen for AFLW to maximise revenue from TV, attendance, sponsorship etc while running an 18-team competition as efficiently as possible.

I completely agree with where you're coming from and we both want what's best for the game. I guess I don't see revenue as that important at this stage of the AFLW implementation. The AFL should be pumping in more money to AFLW instead of what they are gifting to GWS and GC. It's just my opinion of course, I think at this stage they should concentrate on building a fair and respected league/premiership season played in the AFLM off-season, then later on they can start selling parts of it's soul to appease the networks.

 

[freddy mercury]

The second men's footy starts this comp becomes irrelevant. It can't compete. Either start earlier or have less rounds.

 

[The_Wookie]

Nobody's worrying about trade week

You might be surprised. Trade week is big money for the league now in terms of media coverage and sponsorship.

 

[The_Wookie]

Do you think the Test Cricket, ODIs, A-League, W-League, NBL, Australian Open tennis, ATP Cup, Brisbane/Hobart/Adelaide International, Formula One, PGA golf etc etc....... worry about big bash? Should we try to fit in with all those other sports too?

The AFL media suffocates and kills everything else, even it's own AFLW. Ratings is one thing, media attention is another. And do you really want to dodge around BBL so you can have a mickey mouse half season which might rate better, or would you rather the length of a fair premiership season and the respect that comes with winning that? If the life of the AFLW is just to dodge BBL season for some ratings then it's in trouble already.

Dont forget the Australian Open. And the A-league is worried about its own shadow at the moment. The NBL doesnt even have a proper broadcast deal at the moment.

Put this up against the BBL and the Tennis and the summer test series and AFLW disappears into a media blackhole and joins the W-league and WNBL in obscurity - the women then never get the pay they feel they deserve because no one is going and no one is watching.

Then theres faciity issue, and the fact that staff take annual leave at the end of the footy season - not just players.

That said, play two conferences with 9 sides in each, start the season in January - Drop the mens preseason to unofficial scratch matches around the country, give the women the limelight all the way to mens round 1, play the grand final unopposed on Good Friday. You get 9 rounds, 2 weeks of finals and a grand final.

 

[Teen Wolf]

You might be surprised. Trade week is big money for the league now in terms of media coverage and sponsorship.

I would definitely be surprised if AFLW games ate into trade period coverage and/or vice versa, isn't that money almost entirely derived from weekday radio?

 

[The_Wookie]

I would definitely be surprised if AFLW games ate into trade period coverage and/or vice versa, isn't that money almost entirely derived from weekday radio?

the trade period has its own naming rights sponsor.

The AFL is pleased to announce a new partnership with Continental Tyres for the 2021 Toyota AFL Premiership Season. The partnership will see Continental Tyres become a Major Partner, with the exclusive naming rights partner of the AFL Trade Period and the official sponsor of the AFL Runners

 

[Munga]

Dont forget the Australian Open. And the A-league is worried about its own shadow at the moment. The NBL doesnt even have a proper broadcast deal at the moment.

Put this up against the BBL and the Tennis and the summer test series and AFLW disappears into a media blackhole and joins the W-league and WNBL in obscurity - the women then never get the pay they feel they deserve because no one is going and no one is watching.

Then theres faciity issue, and the fact that staff take annual leave at the end of the footy season - not just players.

That said, play two conferences with 9 sides in each, start the season in January - Drop the mens preseason to unofficial scratch matches around the country, give the women the limelight all the way to mens round 1, play the grand final unopposed on Good Friday. You get 9 rounds, 2 weeks of finals and a grand final.

Yeah there are plenty of details to work out. Fair pay is one, but playing just 9 rounds won't cut it. For the integrity of the competition, and for better pay, there needs to be more rounds.

As far as when the season should be played, there isn't a single week during the AFL mens season where any other competition has air to breath with the media. During the AFL mens off-season there will be a few bad weeks with other sports on, but there will also be good weeks and plenty of free air and dedicated coverage of AFLW. There's no doubt which is better for attention, there should be no overlap with the mens game. I don't know how the ratings went, but the AFLW crowds were actually lower once the AFL men kicked off. I'm a customer of the game, and I can say with much confidence that the media "blackhole" is once the AFL men start, and they only took a slight interest in the womens Grand Final. The off-season attention is night and day.

As I mentioned earlier regarding facilities:
As far as grounds, do they play cricket all summer at Moorabbin, Victoria Park, Princes Park, Whitton Oval? I really don't know the answer but I'd be surprised if they do. I would imagine that there are plenty of free grounds to utilise, we don't need 50k stadiums (except for a GF).
There would be dozens and dozens of ovals to play on, surely. 5k-10k crowds max.

With the timing and duration of the season I thought:
If/when it goes to 18 teams, that's 17 rounds plus 4 weeks finals. 12 rounds pre Christmas, 5 rounds + 4 finals weeks post New Year. Two or three weeks off for the Christmas/New Year break.
Take this year for example. AFL GF on 25 September. That leaves 13 weeks pre Christmas and 10 or 11 weeks before round 1 AFL. Being conservative, that's 23 weeks to fit in 21 rounds of AFLW, so they could even have an extra bye or two.

With the staff, is that really an issue? I admit I haven't even considered the staff, I just assumed that the competition would have their own staff?? If AFLW are borrowing AFLM staff, then yeah they are pretty much locked into playing during the mens season! It's a good point. Hopefully one day they can stand on their own feet with their own staff. I wonder what the W-League do? I'd imagine the would have less resources than AFLW.

 

[The_Wookie]

With the staff, is that really an issue? I admit I haven't even considered the staff, I just assumed that the competition would have their own staff?? If AFLW are borrowing AFL staff, then yeah they are pretty much locked into playing during the mens season! It's a good point. Hopefully one day they can stand on their own feet with their own staff. I wonder what the W-League do? I'd imagine the would have less resources than AFLW.

One of the major benefits of giving womens teams to existing AFL clubs was joint operations. Its how the costs down for AFLW by sharing resources with the Mens team, we've already seen staffing concerns where teams play on the same day. Admin and facilities staff would almost certainly be shared.

W-league clubs were for years not even getting their own training rooms - there were articles about women having to get changed outside the stadium before games. They'd have less resources, because their A-league teams have less resources.

 

[Teen Wolf]

the trade period has its own naming rights sponsor.

But why? The next line of the article gives a fair indication:

Continental Tyres will be featured across AFL Trade Radio and its social media channels...

Doesn't seem like it has much to do with the prime vehicle of exposure for AFLW, i.e. television.

 

[Dory_77]

Hasn't the trade week hullabaloo been a product of the AFL wanting to keep footy in the news as much as possible, even if the blokes aren't playing? If the AFLW picks up after the men's GF I reckon the league would be happy to go with that. Investing in a league to run over summer keeps footy in the media and folks interested.

Competition with cricket particularly would be tough, but I think would be doable. Ultimately the calendar is getting more chewed up by all sports wanting to get as much coverage time as possible so completely 'clear air' seems impossible. I think the post-mens idea seems most workable.