How long has Daniel Andrews got left?

When will Daniel Andrews fall on his sword?

  • August

    Votes: 1 3.8%
  • September

    Votes: 1 3.8%
  • October

    Votes: 1 3.8%
  • November

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • December

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Next year

    Votes: 8 30.8%
  • Never

    Votes: 15 57.7%

  • Total voters
    26

Remove this Banner Ad

Patrick Bullet

Club Legend
Jun 18, 2003
1,536
1,183
Perth
AFL Club
West Coast
I like your last sentence, that reviews only happen when mistakes have consequences. Another way of looking at things is to say that consequences highlight mistakes.

The lack of leadership and competence from the Andrews government have been highlighted only because of the consequences. He talks a good game, and that seems to be enough given the lack of any opposition.

Would any corporate CEO survive with the same track record as Dan Andrews? No chance.
What you described as "a lack of leadership and competence" could be rephrased to / cognitively reappraised as "quite unlucky after making some quick decisions with imperfect information during a rapidly unfolding and unprecedented global disaster where line ball decisions matter a lot". The question of this thread really boils down to how are the voters appraising it? People with an agenda will try to spin it in a way that suits them, which is why I am not surprised by the usual suspects in this thread. Still, it seems at the moment what Andrews is doing is garnering a fair bit of support from the community:
And from the Polls thread (see the attachment from RN if you've not seen the thread already):
Also, this poll from Roy Morgan is interesting given the divisiveness of Victorian policy in the media. People are not really interested in golf nor protests. This was courtesy of someone else on social media.
View attachment 946461
I mentioned Gladys earlier because it was much the same thing - a bad policy, in hindsight, led to a bad decision. At the time it was seen as major cluster**** but only now do we understand that the consequences were relatively trivial, and only because of what unfolded later in Victoria. Indeed, the consequences we're seeing in Vic right now could easily be dwarfed by something that happens in, say, three months somewhere else (or in fact much of the the rest of the world right now if anyone wants to pay attention to that). But for a totally hypothetical example, let's imagine something ridiculous like a big event held in a jam-packed sports stadium named after a big telecommunications company, that leads to several thousand community transmissions.
 
Last edited:

Log in to remove this ad.

Evolved1

Norm Smith Medallist
Jun 14, 2013
9,757
12,356
The lockdown state
AFL Club
Essendon
Other Teams
Phil Ivey
What you described as "a lack of leadership and competence" could be rephrased to / cognitively reappraised as "quite unlucky after making some quick decisions with imperfect information during a rapidly unfolding and unprecedented global disaster where line ball decisions matter a lot". The question of this thread really boils down to how are the voters appraising it? People with an agenda will try to spin it in a way that suits them, which is why I am not surprised by the usual suspects in this thread. Still, it seems at the moment what Andrews is doing is garnering a fair bit of support from the community:
And from the Polls thread (see the attachment from RN if you've not seen the thread already):


I mentioned Gladys earlier because it was much the same thing - a bad policy, in hindsight, led to a bad decision. At the time it was seen as major cluster**** but only now do we understand that the consequences were relatively trivial, and only because of what unfolded later in Victoria. Indeed, the consequences we're seeing in Vic right now could easily be dwarfed by something that happens in, say, three months somewhere else (or in fact much of the the rest of the world right now if anyone wants to pay attention to that). But for a totally hypothetical example, let's imagine something ridiculous like a big event held in a jam-packed sports stadium named after a big telecommunications company, that leads to several thousand community transmissions.
In the corporate world, heads would roll for the magnitude of erroneous "quick decisions with imperfect information" resulting in catastrophic consequences as we have here. Was a risk assessment performed before the hotel quarantine fiasco? If not, why not?

How the voters are appraising it is a moving variable that's not necessarily based on the facts. You also need to consider how weak the opposition is in Victoria.

"People with an agenda will try to spin it in a way that suits them," which would include Dan Andrews wouldn't it? The AMA has called for a royal commission, so it's not merely conjecture on my part that the Andrews government has failed here.
 

Pessimistic

Make me an Admin!
Sep 13, 2000
82,701
39,447
Melbourne cricket ground. Australia
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
Horks
I like your last sentence, that reviews only happen when mistakes have consequences. Another way of looking at things is to say that consequences highlight mistakes.

The lack of leadership and competence from the Andrews government have been highlighted only because of the consequences. He talks a good game, and that seems to be enough given the lack of any opposition.

Would any corporate CEO survive with the same track record as Dan Andrews? No chance.
โ€˜put another way, all aspects of public service like โ€˜security guardsโ€™ printing, mail etc have had to be outsourced.
Imagine if public servants could employ such people directly, even if on temporary contracts. This is your right wing utopia in action, yet some wish to prove sent it as communism gone mad.

an what is the right sides answer? Send in the army? Are we all so far down the rabbit hole we think thatโ€™s perfectly reasonable? That it couldnโ€™t be managed perfectly by civilians? It certainly could. You just have to spend some money.
 

Patrick Bullet

Club Legend
Jun 18, 2003
1,536
1,183
Perth
AFL Club
West Coast
In the corporate world, heads would roll for the magnitude of erroneous "quick decisions with imperfect information" resulting in catastrophic consequences as we have here. Was a risk assessment performed before the hotel quarantine fiasco? If not, why not?
I am not convinced that the answers to your two questions here would matter that much to the question posed in the poll at the top of the thread. Perhaps you see it differently - if so, how do you see it?

Also, is "catastrophic" really the appropriate word? No questioning it is bad, but compared to other countries e.g., US, UK, Italy, Spain, Sweden, etc etc. we have still done okay (well, so far at least; we are still just in Q1 of a long game!). If catastrophic is the word for Victoria, what word would you use for the US etc.? There are not too may words more extreme than catastrophic!

My read on the current sentiment is that many people seem to be of the view that every state is just one major mistake + one slice of bad luck from having the Vic experience. I only have anecdata to go on, but in WA, most people I speak to are expecting that we'll have to lock down again eventually. There is a race on right now between a viable vaccine being created and successfully rolled out versus someone making a terrible mistake. I know what I'd bet on happening first...

How the voters are appraising it is a moving variable that's not necessarily based on the facts. You also need to consider how weak the opposition is in Victoria.
I don't disagree with any of this, and these factors are also very relevant to the question in the poll here, which is about whether Dan will stick around.

"People with an agenda will try to spin it in a way that suits them," which would include Dan Andrews wouldn't it?
Yes absolutely. To be clear, I am not 'on his side' nor am I against him (I live in WA so don't care either way). I just think that there is a big disconnect between what people are posting here and what the people 'out in the bush' think; most people seem to understand that the situation is extremely complex and delicate and seem to be more forgiving than the people here (and those in the media who don't really have much else to write about right now).

The AMA has called for a royal commission, so it's not merely conjecture on my part that the Andrews government has failed here.
The AMA has already concluded that the Andrews government has failed? Failed in what exactly?
 

Pessimistic

Make me an Admin!
Sep 13, 2000
82,701
39,447
Melbourne cricket ground. Australia
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
Horks
In the corporate world, heads would roll for the magnitude of erroneous "quick decisions with imperfect information" resulting in catastrophic consequences as we have here. Was a risk assessment performed before the hotel quarantine fiasco? If not, why not?

How the voters are appraising it is a moving variable that's not necessarily based on the facts. You also need to consider how weak the opposition is in Victoria.

"People with an agenda will try to spin it in a way that suits them," which would include Dan Andrews wouldn't it? The AMA has called for a royal commission, so it's not merely conjecture on my part that the Andrews government has failed here.
โ€˜did they explain what a royal commission could bring which an inquiry canโ€™t?
 

Evolved1

Norm Smith Medallist
Jun 14, 2013
9,757
12,356
The lockdown state
AFL Club
Essendon
Other Teams
Phil Ivey
I am not convinced that the answers to your two questions here would matter that much to the question posed in the poll at the top of the thread. Perhaps you see it differently - if so, how do you see it?

Also, is "catastrophic" really the appropriate word? No questioning it is bad, but compared to other countries e.g., US, UK, Italy, Spain, Sweden, etc etc. we have still done okay (well, so far at least; we are still just in Q1 of a long game!). If catastrophic is the word for Victoria, what word would you use for the US etc.? There are not too may words more extreme than catastrophic!

My read on the current sentiment is that many people seem to be of the view that every state is just one major mistake + one slice of bad luck from having the Vic experience. I only have anecdata to go on, but in WA, most people I speak to are expecting that we'll have to lock down again eventually. There is a race on right now between a viable vaccine being created and successfully rolled out versus someone making a terrible mistake. I know what I'd bet on happening first...

I don't disagree with any of this, and these factors are also very relevant to the question in the poll here, which is about whether Dan will stick around.

Yes absolutely. To be clear, I am not 'on his side' nor am I against him (I live in WA so don't care either way). I just think that there is a big disconnect between what people are posting here and what the people 'out in the bush' think; most people seem to understand that the situation is extremely complex and delicate and seem to be more forgiving than the people here (and those in the media who don't really have much else to write about right now).

The AMA has already concluded that the Andrews government has failed? Failed in what exactly?
I appreciate the thoughtful response, but I'm already entwined in several political threads and I'll pull myself away from this one for my own good.

This link should help explain the AMA's stance:
https://www.theage.com.au/national/...sion-into-slow-car-crash-20200826-p55pmc.html
 

Patrick Bullet

Club Legend
Jun 18, 2003
1,536
1,183
Perth
AFL Club
West Coast

(Log in to remove this ad.)

DaRick

Norm Smith Medallist
Jan 12, 2008
6,059
5,263
Brisbane
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
Other Teams
(See avatar)
If the next election was late this year, it'd be tempting for him to fall on his sword.

As it is, voters have short memories and from my understanding the Vic Libs aren't exactly potent opposition. With that in mind, I don't expect COVID and the fallout associated with it to hurt him at the next election unless it continues for the next couple of years. Plus Andrews had a pretty good reputation in Victoria leading up to this pandemic from my understanding.
 

Todman

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 7, 2004
7,525
6,324
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Interesting that the two anti lock-down protests have occurred in Broadmeadows and Dandenong South. Very strong labor vote in both suburbs.
 

Remove this Banner Ad

Remove this Banner Ad