How long until a full blown civil war within the US?

[Sydney Bloods]

Again, hopefully for the last time I have to repeat this, I'm not talking specifically about deaths from guns, I'm talking about gun crime in general.

Cant buy guns with ease? Judging by how you think gun crime is down I'd say you really have been living under a rock.
You might not be able to walk into a store and buy a gun easily, but you sure as hell can get a gun very easily on the street.

Drive by shootings were virtually unheard of in most parts of Australia in the 1990's. As far as Australia was concerned it was a phenomenon in American ghettos.
It's now a common thing in Australia.

What, you think those who are using guns in criminal activity, are going to get their licenses first, and then legally buy guns from a gun store?

Yeh, gun crime is down in Australia. Sure, that's why the amount of illegal guns has exploded to the point where the government and authorities have absolutely no idea how many illegal guns are out there, and the figure of a quarter of a million is widely seen as a very conservative figure.

But hey, keep telling your selves that because deaths from guns has decreased, that gun crime is down.


I guess you must have missed the explosion in drive by shootings the past decade across Australia, I guess you even missed the recent news regarding north west Melbourne.

But hey, you post some graphs about deaths on Bigfooty, so she'll be right matee!!

and where did i say gun crime was down?
i said gun crime was not the reason for the reforms and you know that. Your deliberately trying to conflate one issue with another (although since you keep bringing it up gun homicides have plummeted since 96) Why would you even expect a drop in gun related crime by tightening gun control which was aimed at reducing gun deaths?

as for thinking there was no illegal gun trade in Australia prior your off your rocker. in fact it became a large issue after post Vietnam and increased along side drug importation. of course there was an in increase in traffic post reforms, because reforms made it harder for criminals to obtain guns meaning they had to turn to non legal means, its basic market forces.

But that was never the aim of the gun laws, the aim of the gun laws was to reduce gun deaths. and it worked, Because contrary to popular belief the vast majority of gun homicides are from suicide, domestic violence and nut jobs too ******* crazy to allowed near a firearm.

you do understand those drive by shootings are gang related yes? its not random homes being shot up. You seriously think bikies wars wouldn't have occurred pre gun reforms? Just what crazy arse alternate reality are you living in? you have heard of the Milperria massacre right?

Your argument is nonsensical. She'll be right? what is it with hicks and paranoia? Yeah she will be right mate, There's no indication that Australia's headed toward a lawless state.

TLDR: the laws were not designed to reduce gun crime in general so why would it reduce gun crime in general? (although gun related homicides are down since the reforms)

 

[FPPF]

and where did i say gun crime was down?
i said gun crime was not the reason for the reforms and you know that. Your deliberately trying to conflate one issue with another (although since you keep bringing it up gun homicides have plummeted since 96) Why would you even expect a drop in gun related crime by tightening gun control which was aimed at reducing gun deaths?

as for thinking there was no illegal gun trade in Australia prior your off your rocker. in fact it became a large issue after post Vietnam and increased along side drug importation. of course there was an in increase in traffic post reforms, because reforms made it harder for criminals to obtain guns meaning they had to turn to non legal means, its basic market forces.

But that was never the aim of the gun laws, the aim of the gun laws was to reduce gun deaths. and it worked, Because contrary to popular belief the vast majority of gun homicides are from suicide, domestic violence and nut jobs too ******* crazy to allowed near a firearm.

you do understand those drive by shootings are gang related yes? its not random homes being shot up. You seriously think bikies wars wouldn't have occurred pre gun reforms? Just what crazy arse alternate reality are you living in? you have heard of the Milperria massacre right?

Your argument is nonsensical. She'll be right? what is it with hicks and paranoia? Yeah she will be right mate, There's no indication that Australia's headed toward a lawless state.

TLDR: the laws were not designed to reduce gun crime in general so why would it reduce gun crime in general? (although gun related homicides are down since the reforms)

Actually, all I said was gun crime is not down it's increased, and that gun laws don't work because crims don't give a s**t about the law anyway.
There's just as many legal guns now as there was before Port Arthur, and many many illegal guns out there. There's so many that infact the government has no idea how many, and their best conservative estimate is a quarter of a million illegal guns in circulation in Australia. And that's accepted as a conservative figure. In other words, they've got no idea and the situation is beyond their control.

With just as many legal guns now in Australia as before Port Arthur, why hasn't there been a mass shooting again, while in America there's been many, many mass shootings since? Because 1) that mass shooting was a one off occurrence by a crazy person. And 2) like I said, American society is different to Australian society.

Tougher gun laws in America will not solve that issue for them. Addressing the reasons and issues why there is so much violence in American society, will do more to solve that issue then tougher gun laws.

I posted the fact that gun crime is up in Australia despite the tougher gun laws, to prove that tougher gun laws does not make a safer gun-free society.

Criminals do not care about the law. That's why they are criminals. They don't obey the law.
They can source guns on the black market.
There's people who can and do make guns and sell them to criminals.


I never said anything about gun related murders.
It's you guys who came along and started talking about that.
I never disagreed with anything you were saying.
I simply said gun related crime is actually up despite the tougher laws.

Now if you want to keep arguing about pointless s**t like how easy it is to buy a gun legally in America, or how gun related murders are down in Australia, things which I haven't argued against, then by all means, continue doing so.

 

[Sydney Bloods]

Actually, all I said was gun crime is not down it's increased, and that gun laws don't work because crims don't give a s**t about the law anyway.
There's just as many legal guns now as there was before Port Arthur, and many many illegal guns out there. There's so many that infact the government has no idea how many, and their best conservative estimate is a quarter of a million illegal guns in circulation in Australia. And that's accepted as a conservative figure. In other words, they've got no idea and the situation is beyond their control.

With just as many legal guns now in Australia as before Port Arthur, why hasn't there been a mass shooting again, while in America there's been many, many mass shootings since? Because 1) that mass shooting was a one off occurrence by a crazy person. And 2) like I said, American society is different to Australian society.

Tougher gun laws in America will not solve that issue for them. Addressing the reasons and issues why there is so much violence in American society, will do more to solve that issue then tougher gun laws.

I posted the fact that gun crime is up in Australia despite the tougher gun laws, to prove that tougher gun laws does not make a safer gun-free society.

Criminals do not care about the law. That's why they are criminals. They don't obey the law.
They can source guns on the black market.
There's people who can and do make guns and sell them to criminals.


I never said anything about gun related murders.
It's you guys who came along and started talking about that.
I never disagreed with anything you were saying.
I simply said gun related crime is actually up despite the tougher laws.

Now if you want to keep arguing about pointless s**t like how easy it is to buy a gun legally in America, or how gun related murders are down in Australia, things which I haven't argued against, then by all means, continue doing so.

the laws did ******* work because the aim of the laws was reduce the amount of gun deaths. how hard is this for you to wrap your head around?
do you need to see the graph again? the entire point of the gun reforms was to reduce gun deaths.
gun deaths are reduced ergo the laws worked.

the state of gun crime is irrelevant and by no means an indicator of the effectiveness of the laws. Because reducing gun crime was not the aim of the laws. What is so hard for you to grasp?

 

[Long Live HFC]

I'll spell it out as simply as I can.
Gun laws do not work because criminals do not obey the law. Criminals break the law.

we already went over this. do you not understand what you've already posted?
murder laws do not work because criminals do not obey the law. therefore we shouldn't have laws against murder

it's hilarious that you feel so strongly about banning recreational drugs when the argument you're making here is equally applicable to drug use (if not more so). so which is it? do regulations provide a certain degree of (imperfect) success or are they useless because "criminals ignore all the rules"? it would really help if you made up your mind which one you're choosing to argue next time

Law abiding citizens though, are the ones who are impacted by tougher gun laws and regulations and increased costs.
A criminal can easily get a gun. There's a massive black market for them.

yeah, it's working amazingly well in the US. we should definitely emulate their gun policies. your inability to address anything I actually said is noted

The majority of your post, as usual, is you dribbling s**t for the sake of having something to post.
You are again, as usual, posting s**t, that nobody has actually said anything contrary about.

you're the only one here that can't get around the idea that more guns = easier access to guns = more use of guns to murder people. i'm sorry you couldn't address anything I posted, but there's only so far I can dumb things down for you.

 

[Crankyhawk]

Go speak to the drug cartels, Russian mafia, Italian mafia, black street gangs, Latino street gangs, etc etc.

And I was wrong..it appears there are calls in the UK to ban some knives. LOL geez the worlds gone nuts.
Did you know the UK is the most violent in Europe? There's more violent crimes per capita then the US..four times as much per capita apparently.
Mostly stabbings and what not.
You guys want to restrict knives and introduce licensing for knives?


Can any of you who are arguing with me(despite me not actually disagreeing about gun deaths), give any insight into why in 2013, the NSW police launched a new crack down on gun violence which was out of control?

This is what I'm saying. Gun violence has not decreased, it has increased.

If you guys can actually distinguish between a death and say, an armed robbery or drive by shooting for example, you might comprehend the very simple thing I'm saying.

Gun bans do not work. Because criminals do not obey the law to begin with. Unless you actually naive enough to think that criminals have started getting their firearms licenses and buying their guns legally since Howard introduced tougher gun laws.

Not sure lifting gun restrictions will stop gun violence either. And given the only comparator country are the gun nuts of tanker land we would see a rise in gun deaths.

 

[Crankyhawk]

Actually, all I said was gun crime is not down it's increased, and that gun laws don't work because crims don't give a s**t about the law anyway.
There's just as many legal guns now as there was before Port Arthur, and many many illegal guns out there. There's so many that infact the government has no idea how many, and their best conservative estimate is a quarter of a million illegal guns in circulation in Australia. And that's accepted as a conservative figure. In other words, they've got no idea and the situation is beyond their control.

With just as many legal guns now in Australia as before Port Arthur, why hasn't there been a mass shooting again, while in America there's been many, many mass shootings since? Because 1) that mass shooting was a one off occurrence by a crazy person. And 2) like I said, American society is different to Australian society.

Tougher gun laws in America will not solve that issue for them. Addressing the reasons and issues why there is so much violence in American society, will do more to solve that issue then tougher gun laws.

I posted the fact that gun crime is up in Australia despite the tougher gun laws, to prove that tougher gun laws does not make a safer gun-free society.

Criminals do not care about the law. That's why they are criminals. They don't obey the law.
They can source guns on the black market.
There's people who can and do make guns and sell them to criminals.


I never said anything about gun related murders.
It's you guys who came along and started talking about that.
I never disagreed with anything you were saying.
I simply said gun related crime is actually up despite the tougher laws.

Now if you want to keep arguing about pointless s**t like how easy it is to buy a gun legally in America, or how gun related murders are down in Australia, things which I haven't argued against, then by all means, continue doing so.

Maybe the dumb shits in USA could try gun laws to reduce gun death since it is clear the other measures they use don't work.

 

[the_interloper]

The most recent cases and ones I can remember, have had quite petulant reasons.

That rich kid who was neglected by girls. The guy that did it live on air because he was fired. Just seems like the easy way to overcome your issues and the first thing they go to, rather than seek help.

I just reckon people over there like to go out with a bang (pardon the pun).

 

[jedi mind tricks]

So many guns, so many angry units, crazy units, hateful units...mass shootings seemingly every week. It just feels like something serious is building up and ready to escape the bottle.

Thoughts?

You're paranoid.

 

[MaddAdam]

I clixked on this hoping to read about impending RAHOWA and its just the same old guns bullshit.

 

[krisholio14]

The State of Illinois is basically insolvent to the point that they are now months overdue in paying their utility and service bills and are being threatened with shut off.

This is on top of them not being able to pay State workers for weeks earlier this year.

Could you imagine the carry on if one of the Australian States reached this point?

 

[Sydney Bloods]

The State of Illinois is basically insolvent to the point that they are now months overdue in paying their utility and service bills and are being threatened with shut off.

This is on top of them not being able to pay State workers for weeks earlier this year.

Could you imagine the carry on if one of the Australian States reached this point?

avoiding situations like that are why the GST was introduced.

without knowing too much of about the condition of Illinois i can't see these threats coming to pass, afterall almost half the US states are in debts which they can never hope to pay off: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-05-11/almost-half-us-states-are-officially-broke

 

[Hawthorn United]

avoiding situations like that are why the GST was introduced.

without knowing too much of about the condition of Illinois i can't see these threats coming to pass, afterall almost half the US states are in debts which they can never hope to pay off: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-05-11/almost-half-us-states-are-officially-broke

Some Americans think Trump will fix all that, because he's such a successful businessman, he will get the country back on track.

 

[Sydney Bloods]

Some Americans think Trump will fix all that, because he's such a successful businessman, he will get the country back on track.

the bloke hasn't released a single ******* policy he's all rhetoric. Surely the yanks aren't dumb enough to elect him?

 

[krisholio14]

avoiding situations like that are why the GST was introduced.

without knowing too much of about the condition of Illinois i can't see these threats coming to pass, afterall almost half the US states are in debts which they can never hope to pay off: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-05-11/almost-half-us-states-are-officially-broke

That's the worst thing about it though. They already have a GST like state tax.

 

[Hawthorn United]

the bloke hasn't released a single ******* policy he's all rhetoric. Surely the yanks aren't dumb enough to elect him?

His tax policy is a very good one. He said he showed the best people in the country and they agreed it was very good. lol

He says a lot rubbish but doesn't get pulled up on it, so people believe it.

I can only see him giving tax cuts and other benefits that suit him.

New tax brackets of 15, 20, 25% when your country is in so much debt is going to fix it?

 

[Sydney Bloods]

That's the worst thing about it though. They already have a GST like state tax.

chalk up another victory for trickle down economics.

His tax policy is a very good one. He said he showed the best people in the country and they agreed it was very good. lol

He says a lot rubbish but doesn't get pulled up on it, so people believe it.

I can only see him giving tax cuts and other benefits that suit him.

New tax brackets of 15, 20, 25% when your country is in so much debt is going to fix it?

nah thats not self interested enough for trump he'll probably just sell off a few national parks and reserves to himself. there's some prime development real estate to be had.

 

[Lebbo73]

chalk up another victory for trickle down economics.



nah thats not self interested enough for trump he'll probably just sell off a few national parks and reserves to himself. there's some prime development real estate to be had.

It has nothing to do with trickle down economics. It is all because Western governments can't live within their means. You all expect them to fix every problem that occurs. That is not what governments were setup for in the first place. They should only be responsible for the basics, national and domestic security, etc. Govts are not responsible for making sure your home has access to fast pr0n!

 

[Long Live HFC]

Govts are not responsible for making sure your home has access to fast pr0n!

yeah, same with all that useless copper and tarmac they've laid all over the country!

 

[Sydney Bloods]

It has nothing to do with trickle down economics. It is all because Western governments can't live within their means. You all expect them to fix every problem that occurs. That is not what governments were setup for in the first place. They should only be responsible for the basics, national and domestic security, etc. Govts are not responsible for making sure your home has access to fast pr0n!

it has everything to do with trickle down economics, the government cannot even pay its own workers due to not raising enough revenue. trickle down economics is based around the idea that you could reduces taxes for the wealthy which in turn would provide jobs and wealth for poorer american's which would then provide adequate revenue on the whole. It had nothing to do with what areas were given funding.

the state debt levels are due to largely a lack of jobs and major issues wealth disparity. In all the states that are broke it is due to a decline revenue and contraction of state economies over a sustained period of time, without increasing revenue through raising more taxes to cover the short fall.

in fact considering the vast majority of countries in the western world with vast array of social support services such as public health care, robust unemployment pathways, adequate funding for public education and even large scale publicly funded civil works programs such as an NBN systems. are all out performing the united states economically despite it having none of these your entire premise is flawed.

as for your ridiculous notion of what governments were setup for your literally just making s**t up, no one has ever agreed on what the role of a government should be, people have argued over the role of a government for as long as governments have existed.

the simple fact is trickle down economics has not provided the jobs, nor the wealth, nor the revenue it promised, it has failed. and largest expenditure in the US is on military, intelligence, prisons and various law enforcement related programs. the very things you say the government should be focusing on. The fact is trickle down economics has not and cannot do fulfil its aims. even the largest supporter of trickle down economics the GOP has had to go further and further into debt despite savage cuts into everything but those areas just to keep them running.

its time to pull your head out of your arse and see the yanks were sold a dud solution.

 

[Present Not Past]

It has nothing to do with trickle down economics. It is all because Western governments can't live within their means. You all expect them to fix every problem that occurs. That is not what governments were setup for in the first place. They should only be responsible for the basics, national and domestic security, etc. Govts are not responsible for making sure your home has access to fast pr0n!

Governments are only administrative entities which carry out the policies of the ruling parties.
If the ruling parties want us to have access to fast pr0n because they think that will get them re-elected then the Dept of Fast pr0n will make it happen.

 

[Long Live HFC]

to my knowledge, nobody has ever subscribed to so-called trickle-down economics. it was certainly never a position advocated by any economist or school of economics.

 

[Sydney Bloods]

to my knowledge, nobody has ever subscribed to so-called trickle-down economics. it was certainly never a position advocated by any economist or school of economics.

thats because its not a proper economic system. Its little more then a half excuse to cut taxes for the rich.

 

[Crankyhawk]

the bloke hasn't released a single ******* policy he's all rhetoric. Surely the yanks aren't dumb enough to elect him?

No one ever lost underestimating the stupidity of the U.S. Voting public and the apathy of those who don't vote.

 

[Thrawn]

the bloke hasn't released a single ******* policy he's all rhetoric. Surely the yanks aren't dumb enough to elect him?

They certainly are. After all, they voted in Bush twice didn't they?

 

[SBYM]

Trump will not win the GOP nomination.