How many A graders do we have on the list...

Jetafl

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How many genuine A graders do we have at the moment on the list - for the sake of this thread assume Rankine is on the list. Would have loved to have done this list say in 2015 and compare our 2015 list to our 2022 list.
 
Mar 26, 2015
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If you class A graders as the ability to win their position most weeks against their opposition, and be a walk up start in any other side, i'd say currently

Tex
Laird
Dawson
Doedee (borderline)

Potential future A Graders (from exposed form):

Berry
Rachele
TT
Fog
Soligo
Rankine
Butts
 
If you class A graders as the ability to win their position most weeks against their opposition, and be a walk up start in any other side, i'd say currently

Tex
Laird
Dawson
Doedee (borderline)

If you start by redefining the term you're not ending well.

Lol at Doedee's droppable form being a grade.
 
Mar 28, 2011
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If you class A graders as the ability to win their position most weeks against their opposition, and be a walk up start in any other side, i'd say currently

Tex
Laird
Dawson
Doedee (borderline)

Potential future A Graders (from exposed form):

Berry
Rachele
TT
Fog
Soligo
Rankine
Butts
Pretty spot on, although I’d say Doedee isn’t in that A grade bunch, and I’d replace Butts with Worrell

Would’ve said Schoenberg prior to last season, but who knows if he ever gets to that level now
 
Mar 26, 2015
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Pretty spot on, although I’d say Doedee isn’t in that A grade bunch, and I’d replace Butts with Worrell

Would’ve said Schoenberg prior to last season, but who knows if he ever gets to that level now

Yeah Doedee on 2022 form is not, but prior he was tracking in the position he is playing.

People knock the loose defender as it's an unaccountable role, but it is a role. Doedee when playing well is one of the best loose defenders in the game.

It's like saying Charlie Cameron isn't an A grader because he doesn't get 30 possesions a week.
 
May 4, 2016
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What’s everyone’s definition of Elite vs A Graders vs B Graders?


Elite - Game breakers (Dusty, Fyfe, Danger, Bont, Franklin, Petracca, Cripps). We don’t have any of those.

A Graders - AA / top40 AA (Laird, Tex, Dawson*)

B Graders - Best in club types (Rankine*, TT*, Rachelle*, Berry*, Soliglo*, Butts, Fog*, Doedee)

C Graders - Best 22 (McHenry, Jones, Parnell, Pedlar*, Worrel*, Schoenberg, Murray)

D/F Graders - SANFL Types (Sholl, Himmelberg)

That being said, a lot of players have the potential* to be B Graders (Pedlar, Worrel), A Graders (Berry, Soliglo, TT, Fog) and Elite (Rankine, Rachelle, Dawson)
 
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Mar 28, 2011
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Yeah Doedee on 2022 form is not, but prior he was tracking in the position he is playing.

People knock the loose defender as it's an unaccountable role, but it is a role. Doedee when playing well is one of the best loose defenders in the game.

It's like saying Charlie Cameron isn't an A grader because he doesn't get 30 possesions a week.
Oh I’m not saying the role doesn’t count, moreso that there’d be others ahead of him that provide more rebound and roughly a similar level of intercept, which probably puts him at a B+
 
Ah the classsic poorly defined terms. I'd have A-grade as someone in the AA logjam (i.e. good enough to jag a spot in their best years).

At the moment, it's Tex, Laird, Dawson.

For the future:

Fogarty, Rankine, Berry and Soligo all took considerable steps in getting there in 2022.

Rachele and Thilthorpe look to be a surefire bet to get there in the future, but have yet to really ascend.

Worrell is a wildcard. Could be there next year if his EOY 2021 form is legit, might just be a flash in the pan though.

Cook, Pedlar, Taylor, Butts, Murray, Parnell, Nankervis and Schoenberg could all get there, but need considerable work/refinement to do so.

Tex is likely to drop out of that rating in 2023.
 
Aug 21, 2008
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Imo you have your elite tier, then A graders, B graders etc. B graders being good role players and C graders being those who are okay at football but are depth at best.

I think a premiership 22 has something like a few elite, a bunch of A graders and then majority being B graders. This is obviously dynamic as players come up and drop off.

E.g 3 elite, 7 A grade and 12 B grade

Our list is hard to evaluate using this thinking as we have so many young players that are unproven (I.e. They may not be at B grade yet, but have the potential to be that level or above).

I think the 'knowns' we have (output either in 2021/22) are:

Elite: 0
A grade: Dawson, Tex, Laird, Seedsman*
B grade: Keays, Berry (climbed into B late in the year), Fogarty (same as Berry), Doedee, Butts, Rankine*, O'Brien (close to C)
C grade: Murphy, McHenry, Smith (falling into C), Himmelberg, Sloane, Crouch, Frampton, Hately, Rowe
D: Davis

Unknowns:

Potential for B grade or higher: Soligo (if not already), Rachele, TT, Hinge (if not already), Pedlar, McPherson, Hamill, Schoenberg, Worrell, Cook, Taylor, Murray, Parnell.

Unlikely to move past C: McAsey, Borlase, Newchurch

Really unknown (could go either way): Sholl, Jones, Milera, Gollant, Strachan, Turner


In short, I think we need to prioritise known As, Bs and the unknown potential list. Move on known Cs, Ds and unknown players unlikely to make it past C. Retain the last group of unknowns, but at a low priority.
 
Aug 21, 2008
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Imo you have your elite tier, then A graders, B graders etc. B graders being good role players and C graders being those who are okay at football but are depth at best.

I think a premiership 22 has something like a few elite, a bunch of A graders and then majority being B graders. This is obviously dynamic as players come up and drop off.

E.g 3 elite, 7 A grade and 12 B grade

Our list is hard to evaluate using this thinking as we have so many young players that are unproven (I.e. They may not be at B grade yet, but have the potential to be that level or above).

I think the 'knowns' we have (output either in 2021/22) are:

Elite: 0
A grade: Dawson, Tex, Laird, Seedsman*
B grade: Keays, Berry (climbed into B late in the year), Fogarty (same as Berry), Doedee, Butts, Rankine*, O'Brien (close to C)
C grade: Murphy, McHenry, Smith (falling into C), Himmelberg, Sloane, Crouch, Frampton, Hately, Rowe
D: Davis

Unknowns:

Potential for B grade or higher: Soligo (if not already), Rachele, TT, Hinge (if not already), Pedlar, McPherson, Hamill, Schoenberg, Worrell, Cook, Taylor, Murray, Parnell.

Unlikely to move past C: McAsey, Borlase, Newchurch

Really unknown (could go either way): Sholl, Jones, Milera, Gollant, Strachan, Turner


In short, I think we need to prioritise known As, Bs and the unknown potential list. Move on known Cs, Ds and unknown players unlikely to make it past C. Retain the last group of unknowns, but at a low priority.
And pray a few move into the elite category.
 

Jetafl

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Ah the classsic poorly defined terms. I'd have A-grade as someone in the AA logjam (i.e. good enough to jag a spot in their best years).
That would be pretty much be my definition of A-grader. When I think A-grader I think of someone that could slot into pretty much any teams best 22 in his position. So I think Tex and Dawson for sure. If I was to do our A graders back in 2015 we had a lot more. If I asked for future/potential A graders we have a lot more. But if we go back to around say 2015 we had more A graders and couple plus in the level above elite in their position.
 

Rollerball

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My rankings would be calibrated to C tier being a best 22 non-star player

Elite tier for me would be in discussion as the best player in the AFL
A tier = multiple AA type player, or top few in their position, still in their peak
B tier = current single AA or AA squad type, past AA winner, B&F winner, very good contributor
C tier = good solid best 22 player without starring
D tier = fringe role player that's not definite best 22
E tier = depth that won't play much AFL
F tier = in discussion as the worst player in the AFL

Based on that I'd say we have 0 elite players, and only one A tier being Walker who I class as being in the top few players in his position.

Guys like Laird are B tier, not currently winning AAs but settled at a very good club level. Dawson currently B tier with the potential for A tier.

The rest are young and would be below that level
 
That would be pretty much be my definition of A-grader. When I think A-grader I think of someone that could slot into pretty much any teams best 22 in his position. So I think Tex and Dawson for sure. If I was to do our A graders back in 2015 we had a lot more. If I asked for future/potential A graders we have a lot more. But if we go back to around say 2015 we had more A graders and couple plus in the level above elite in their position.

Yup, but I mean, that's expected. 2015 we were a team who was on the borderline of contention but had underperformed in the last year or two. 2022 we're at the point the list is at is absolute weakest in a rebuild.
 

Jetafl

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Our last genuine A grader was Danger. Have not had 1 since. Tex/Eddie were around the mark.
Danger in his last season for us when he one the BnF was elite and has been for the Cats for the majority of the time he's been there. Losing someone of his ilk in their prime hurts. At his best Tex was elite in his position and still is an A grader (Tex and Hawkins come to mind as KPF that have turned back the clock or made time stand still) and Eddy at his best was elite in his position.

That why I said in my OP post if we'd done say back in 2015 we would have had far more A graders and at least a couple of elites.
 

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I think our list is way too young to make an absolute determination.. We have a lot of kids heading in that direction, but still too early.

Give it 2 - 3 years, and I think our A grade list looks something like:
  • Dawson
  • Rankine
  • Soligo
  • Fogarty
  • Thilthorpe
  • Rachele
Our good, hard-working B grade role players looks something like:
  • O'Brien
  • Laird
  • Berry
  • Schoenberg
  • Hinge
  • Milera
  • McAdam
  • Doedee
 

jo172

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I forget how much I loathe these kind of discussions.

You get 1000 different, slightly nuanced definition of the same phrase of "A Grader" as it has no objective meaning.

We then spend 20 pages getting trapped in forever more tedious arguments as to semantics.

I loathe October on this site.
 
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