How many weeks for Mackay?

[Mudman85]

No I am saying, whether Mackay goes high or low its irrelevant because he is initiating the force/inertia from his speed and distance he ran and he assumes the responsibility for it especially when it is obvious Clark is unaware of Mackay coming.

By the way those suggesting Mackay did not see Clark I am calling BS on that

Mackay could have hit the legs of Clark and created another injury with a bump/brace and be responsible for a separate injury due to the inertia/force he created that Clark was unaware of. He could have took Clarks knees out , ankles whatever

he is initiating the force/inertia from his speed and distance he ran

I have heard it all now. Player penalized for running too fast and from too far away. Initiating the inertia? Clarke must have actually been floating perfectly still in a gravity free environment. People making out that one of the least likely blokes in the history of the comp to do something physical is actually some kind of beast of brutality

 

[Alesana]

And yet he's undeniably incredible in traffic. Maybe he's just a bit of a dirty player?



Players accidentally get head injuries all the time in footy. Port have 2 players on the sidelines this week because of this sort of accident, one concussion and one broken jaw.

Players need to take reasonable steps to avoid hurting their opponents, which they already do in almost all circumstances. If they choose to undertake an action where a heavy collision is likely and hit someone in the head and hurt them, there needs to be consequences for that.



Actually pjcrows you're correct, society is cooked.

You sound like you'd prefer watching Soccer. Have you given that a go?

 

[Mr Magic]

Did you not hear Riewoldt and Treloar state that Mackay attacked the contest in exactly the same way they coach U17’s to do so. Mackays peers see NOTHING wrong with his actions yet you know better?

Sorry mate but you’re not reading the room on this one.

There just utilising the player code are they not? Where is a precedent on this one anyway? One Maclure brought up on the wing where Wally Lewis and Dipper saw it might be closest but that was a different era in different circumstances.

Given Clark had someone on his tail I could understand why Clark might think he would not be opened up like he was in the current climate and directions from AFL HQ regarding the head otherwise why did he not look for possible oncoming traffic. Maclure said he should have looked out for protection but Maclure is coming from a different era

 

[pjcrows]

And yet he's undeniably incredible in traffic. Maybe he's just a bit of a dirty player?



Players accidentally get head injuries all the time in footy. Port have 2 players on the sidelines this week because of this sort of accident, one concussion and one broken jaw.

Players need to take reasonable steps to avoid hurting their opponents, which they already do in almost all circumstances. If they choose to undertake an action where a heavy collision is likely and hit someone in the head and hurt them, there needs to be consequences for that.



Actually pjcrows you're correct, society is cooked.

FFS we've already argued this.

We fundamentally disagree. Perhaps we leave it here.

 

[El_Scorcho]

You sound like you'd prefer watching Soccer. Have you given that a go?

If you want to watch people get hit in the head and get hurt, go watch combat sports.

If you want to watch footy, you should understand that there is a massive range of options available to a player in Mackay's situation in between shirk a contest and shatter Clark's jaw.

 

[Mr Magic]

I'm not suggesting Mackay didn't see him. You said that Mackay knew that Clark didn't see him. How is Mackay responsible for his opponent's vision, or lack thereof? Should he pause time and warn him?

Because Mackay knew Clark did not see him he knew he was not going to protect himself so the injury inflicted by contact from Mackay could potentially be greater.

It also means Mackay did not have to barrel him if he knew Clark did not see him and was not going to brace himself let alone try and avoid Mackay with spins etc... Mackay could have pulled up a little, decelerated, attempted a tackle and still provide a contest without that type of force and potential for injury.

In fact Mackay did not have to brace that hard either because he could see Clark did not see him, he could opened himself up a little because Clark did not see him anyway. Just before the point of contact neither was going to win the ball before the inevitable collision

 

[Matera92]

Interesting one, maybe Houston should have been suspended. The current interpretation of the games laws allows contact above the shoulders when marking provided it's not with the arms, and they've kept it this way to preserve the speccy. Maybe that's the next frontier in the quest to lower the amount of head injuries in the game. I will say that the old hypothetical knee in the back of the head in a marking contest causing injury is a much rarer occurrence than a head high bump.



He actually was doing a physics calculation. Not on a chalkboard with numbers and formulas, but he knew where he was, where the ball was likely to be when he met it, where Clark and Berry were likely to be. Players are constantly calculating stuff like that in their heads, it happens naturally. Mackay is a very experienced footballer who knows that charging into a contest at full pace increases the likelihood of injury. He knew going in that he was going to make pretty heavy contact with Clark and did it anyway. He wasn't in enough control to avoid hitting Clark's face with his shoulder. Most of the time a player's jaw won't be broken and there's nothing for us to discuss, but this time it was broken.

If coaches expected this, players would be getting poleaxed in every game, but they aren't, because players are also coached to avoiding giving away frees. Mackay had plenty of other options in terms of how to attack the contest. There are similar loose ball contests at speed in every game. Players tackle, the corral, they run slightly wide of the contest and try to knock the footy out of their opponent's hands. They bump, but actually choose to bump and ensure it's shoulder to shoulder instead of shoulder to head. It happens all the time.

And I'm sure when that happens, you'll be the first to cheer on its demise judging by your posting.

The current interpretation of the games laws allows a player to make contact with another player if they are contesting the football. Hence why this matter being sent to the tribunal is an absurd reaction from the AFL who panic anytime someone gets hurt playing a contact sport and feel like they need to 'be seen doing something' about a problem that isn't actually there.


He didn't know, hence why he was running at such a pace because he obviously thought he could beat his opponent to the footy. This is what you are taught, drilled on, and is what is expected from you by both your coaches and your team mates. He believed he could win that footy by going as hard as he could to get to it before Clark.

He didn't win it cleanly because its impossible to expect players to make such a determination in moments with 100% accuracy.
This isn't a sports sim, this is real life.

Experienced players do not need to do a physics calculation, they know.

I would argue Mackay's total action was not a football action in totality. People can slice and dice it to suit an agenda but there is no way he was going to win the ball taken the action he did from the initial commitment at such a distance unless he was a drugged up olympian 100 metre sprinter

He was literally half a second from doing just that. So not really out of the realms.

This is what happens when you watch things in slow motion, your sense of time is completely distorted.

 

[Alesana]

If you want to watch people get hit in the head and get hurt, go watch combat sports.

If you want to watch footy, you should understand that there is a massive range of options available to a player in Mackay's situation in between shirk a contest and shatter Clark's jaw.

Skip to 1:30 in the video below. If you have your way, then Daniel Kerr pulls out of that contest, and a huge amount of the best individual performances we've seen would never have happened. But apparently that's what you'd prefer. I'll never understand that.

 

[Mr Magic]

And I'm sure when that happens, you'll be the first to cheer on its demise judging by your posting.

The current interpretation of the games laws allows a player to make contact with another player if they are contesting the football. Hence why this matter being sent to the tribunal is an absurd reaction from the AFL who panic anytime someone gets hurt playing a contact sport and feel like they need to 'be seen doing something' about a problem that isn't actually there.


He didn't know, hence why he was running at such a pace because he obviously thought he could beat his opponent to the footy. This is what you are taught, drilled on, and is what is expected from you by both your coaches and your team mates. He believed he could win that footy by going as hard as he could to get to it before Clark.

He didn't win it cleanly because its impossible to expect players to make such a determination in moments with 100% accuracy.
This isn't a sports sim, this is real life.





He was literally half a second from doing just that. So not really out of the realms.

This is what happens when you watch things in slow motion, your sense of time is completely distorted.

How was Mackay contested for the ball? At snapshots just prior to the contact it was obvious he could not win the ball successfully and he ought to have known from the distance he made his intial move he could not get there in time to effectively win a disposal

 

[pjcrows]

This is what happens when you watch things in slow motion, your sense of time is completely distorted.

This is what happens when you don't have any experience playing or coaching the game beyond primary school.

 

[Mr Magic]

Skip to 1:30 in the video below. If you have your way, then Daniel Kerr pulls out of that contest, and a huge amount of the best individual performances we've seen would never have happened. But apparently that's what you'd prefer. I'll never understand that.

Actually, if Mackay gets weeks this does not affect the Kerr scenario because the force from Kerr, is less, the speed from Kerr is less, the distance Kerr ran to the contest was less. This is where the injury outcome is relevant because it factors in the force created by the player to cause injury

Mackay gets weeks and Kerr plays on, simples really

Was the Swans player injured?

 

[Alesana]

Actually, if Mackay gets weeks this does not affect the Kerr scenario because the force from Kerr, is less, the speed from Kerr is less, the distance Kerr ran to the contest was less.

Mackay gets weeks and Kerr plays on, simples really

 

[Alesana]

Actually, if Mackay gets weeks this does not affect the Kerr scenario because the force from Kerr, is less, the speed from Kerr is less, the distance Kerr ran to the contest was less. This is where the injury outcome is relevant because it factors in the force created by the player to cause injury

Mackay gets weeks and Kerr plays on, simples really

Spoken by someone who has played as much footy as Gerard Whately I'm guessing

 

[Matera92]

How was Mackay contested for the ball? At snapshots just prior to the contact it was obvious he could not win the ball successfully and he ought to have known from the distance he made his intial move he could not get there in time to effectively win a disposal

You are basing your judgements on a snap shot of a split second moment rather than how these things happen in real time.

How do you judge that? Does he know how fast Clarke can move? What his top speed will be at this point in time based on conditions, his own current speed, fatigue level and if that will be a factor? Will his team mate to clear him off the ball so he has a free pass at it?

Does he know the balls going to continue to bounce in that direction or maybe it will skew left or right?

This is the idiotic assertation you are making with your posting.

The reality is he would have seen a loose footy and thought "I can get that", and then acted on that instinct.

 

[Matera92]

This is what happens when you don't have any experience playing or coaching the game beyond primary school.

Its very clear who has and hasn't played at a level required to actually understand a players mindset in these moments.

Far easier to watch slow motion footage and still images with 20/20 hindsight.

 

[El_Scorcho]

And I'm sure when that happens, you'll be the first to cheer on its demise judging by your posting.

The current interpretation of the games laws allows a player to make contact with another player if they are contesting the football. Hence why this matter being sent to the tribunal is an absurd reaction from the AFL who panic anytime someone gets hurt playing a contact sport and feel like they need to 'be seen doing something' about a problem that isn't actually there.


He didn't know, hence why he was running at such a pace because he obviously thought he could beat his opponent to the footy. This is what you are taught, drilled on, and is what is expected from you by both your coaches and your team mates. He believed he could win that footy by going as hard as he could to get to it before Clark.

He didn't win it cleanly because its impossible to expect players to make such a determination in moments with 100% accuracy.
This isn't a sports sim, this is real life.

This is a post describing how and why the action was careless. He took a risk based on a miscalculation, the risk didn't pay off, his shoulder made contact with an opponent's face and broke his jaw in 3 places.

Nobody is saying Mackay intended to hurt anybody. He's about the furthest thing from a dirty player in the league. The forceful contact to the head was unintentional, but the direct result of Mackay's decisions.

Skip to 1:30 in the video below. If you have your way, then Daniel Kerr pulls out of that contest, and a huge amount of the best individual performances we've seen would never have happened. But apparently that's what you'd prefer. I'll never understand that.

Kerr was going slower, fully maintained control, actually got to the ball first, didn't hit the guy high and didn't injure anyone. Nowhere near comparable.

 

[Mr Magic]

Spoken by someone who has played as much footy as Gerard Whately I'm guessing

I tell you what, I went into a bumping scenario to win a ball. Actually I didn't I tell a lie

The player I hit was a team mate, I did not intentionally try to bump him, I was trying to get ahead of him and win the ball because I was so sick of the scrimmage out of frustration.

Having said that I did not go in with the force/speed Mackay did, we were both fairly tough I suppose, I think I was winded, but no injuries to either of us.

There was no head contact but I was not trying to lay him out or even brace myself, I was trying to win the ball ahead of him

There was one time I thought, here is an opportunity to lay someone out, from a bit of distance, who had the ball but he was warned by an opposition teammate talk and managed to avoid me

 

[pjcrows]

There was no head contact

You sure?

 

[El_Scorcho]

Its very clear who has and hasn't played at a level required to actually understand a players mindset in these moments.

Far easier to watch slow motion footage and still images with 20/20 hindsight.

Nobody is questioning his mindset. We're questioning his risky decision to charge into the contest and then his subsequent poor execution.

Every AFL player has a burning desire to win the footy, but we don't see shoulders shattering jaws every week.

 

[Matera92]

This is a post describing how and why the action was careless. He took a risk based on a miscalculation, the risk didn't pay off, his shoulder made contact with an opponent's face and broke his jaw in 3 places.

Nobody is saying Mackay intended to hurt anybody. He's about the furthest thing from a dirty player in the league. The forceful contact to the head was unintentional, but the direct result of Mackay's decisions.



Kerr was going slower, fully maintained control, actually got to the ball first, didn't hit the guy high and didn't injure anyone. Nowhere near comparable.

So what you're saying is that you're perfectly fine with someone being suspended based on an outcome of a legal football action because someone was hurt.

That is what you're saying, hence from now on, any player seriously hurt through footballing actions is liable to be suspended if the AFL 'don't like the look of it'.

I'm not going to argue this point any further with you because we are fundamentally opposed in our thinking of this.

 

[Alesana]

I tell you what, I went into a bumping scenario to win a ball. Actually I didn't I tell a lie

The player I hit was a team mate, I did not intentionally try to bump him, I was trying to get ahead of him and win the ball because I was so sick of the scrimmage out of frustration.

Having said that I did not go in with the force/speed Mackay did, we were both fairly tough I suppose, I think I was winded, but no injuries to either of us.

There was no head contact but I was not trying to lay him out or even brace myself, I was trying to win the ball ahead of him

I don't even know what to say to this..

 

[Matera92]

I don't even know what to say to this..

He'd be a s**t team mate?

 

[El_Scorcho]

So what you're saying is that you're perfectly fine with someone being suspended based on an outcome of a legal football action because someone was hurt.

That is what you're saying, hence from now on, any player seriously hurt through footballing actions is liable to be suspended if the AFL 'don't like the look of it'.

I'm not going to argue this point any further with you because we are fundamentally opposed in our thinking of this.

We are fundamentally opposed by the sounds of things. I don't agree it was a legal footy action. You can't make forceful contact to the head of another player with your shoulder. The broken jaw simply determines that the grading is severe and not medium or low.

 

[Mr Magic]

Having a look at some other vision I think some of the defenders of Mackay are not helping him.

Looking it again on footy classified the ball goes over the head and the ball heads almost towards Mackay. The way the ball goes towards Mackay over the head makes calculations problematic. Having said that Mackay is compelled to contest anyway the question becomes why does Mackay go at the ball and Clark at such velocity when I think it was unnecessary. If the ball is coming towards you to a degree why rush at it and Clark?

 

[El_Scorcho]

"The Player was contesting the ball and it was reasonable for the Player to contest the ball in that way" specifically infers that not every way of contesting the ball is reasonable.

If contesting the ball gave you immunity from being cited for a high bump, that clause would just say "The Player was contesting the ball."