How the AFL’s ‘power’ clubs have lost power

[RonnieRaven]

WTF

 

[Freomaniac]

When Fremantle actually earn the right to talk about flags post something then.

Hahahahahaha....

If you don't have anything to say, just bring up Freos grand final wins or lack thereof.

I wont deny that one.

You can't say freo has an empty trophy cabinet.

Got that 2015 McClelland trophy for finishing top in that season.

 

[Scotland]

No, what I am saying is that there needs to be an understanding that it is a broad competition where different factors impact a range of clubs differently. In WA supporters don't need to pay for a Foxtel/Kayo sub to watch their teams play as their games are shown on FTA. So the media rights to Foxtel in WA are close to worthless. As a smaller market the revenue from advertising channel 7 receives in Perth is less than they get in Melbourne. So the media rights is worth less to Channel 7 in WA than in a larger market. Similarly WA supporters have to pay higher premiums for season tickets because the demand outstrips supply whereas in Melbourne most supporters can attend any game they want without a membership. So casual fans who might only go 3 times a year don't have to worry about buying memberships or sourcing tickets - they can just buy GA tickets at the gate.

Are there stats available for Foxtel/Kayo subscriptions per state? I vaguely recall there used to be data available for TV viewership per time slot per state for FTA and pay TV.

The value of the broadcast deal is driven by what the broadcasters want. And that's a game every weekend in WA, SA, Qld and NSW plus however many are needed in Victoria. Victoria is the biggest market, but we've had 10 teams there since 1996. Most weeks there are 5 games in Victoria, sometimes 6, sometimes 4.

Rd 1 this year I would say is valuable. Stand alone Wed, Thur, Fri night matches, B2B2B games on Sat, B2B2B games on Sun. A more normal round like Rd 7 with Fri night, 5 games on Sat and 3 games on Sun overlapping is less desirable because the audience is split. If Collingwood are playing Carlton at the MCG then another game being on in Victoria adds little value broadcast wise. If for some reason a Vic team relocated the TV rights value would not diminish.

What are you talking about? My post was explaining that the clubs who were shafted by Docklands (namely North, Saints & Dogs) had no leverage to get a better deal because A) the AFL already had a contract to play a certain number of games at Docklands each season; B) the AFL sets the fixture so if they need the Saints/Dogs/North to play home games at Docklands to meet their contractual obligations to Docklands they will do that; C) the clubs were coerced into giving up their traditional home grounds in the name of ground rationalisation and a better economic outcome for the AFL so they had nowhere else to play their home games anyway as the AFL would not entertain more clubs playing out of the MCG. greatwhiteshark has raised this issue in other threads blaming the clubs for their poor stadium deals and has been told why they had no leverage to negotiate better terms but has trotted out the same rubbish in this thread again.

Suburban grounds are a nostalgic pipe dream. Fans don't want them. They say they do, but then rattle off excuses as to why they don't attend now. If Richmond and Hawthorn fans aren't going to attend t Docklands then they aren't going to Punt Rd or Glenferrie or Waverley to sit out in the rain.

Those clubs you mentioned historically draw low crowds and have low membership bases. I heard for years how WC/Freo got 77% of revenues at Subiaco Oval and that's unfair because Docklands was 30 or 40%. But it's a nothing comparison. WC/Freo paid millions in annual rent and got to keep revenues after costs. Is that really what Vic teams want? Of course not, because they can't generate as much revenue. When people say 'stadium deal' 9 times out of 10 they mean they want the fixed costs absorbed by the AFL/stadium operator, fixed revenue in their pocket for low crowds and variable revenue in their pocket for big crowds. It's unrealistic.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

Are there stats available for Foxtel/Kayo subscriptions per state? I vaguely recall there used to be data available for TV viewership per time slot per state for FTA and pay TV.

The value of the broadcast deal is driven by what the broadcasters want. And that's a game every weekend in WA, SA, Qld and NSW plus however many are needed in Victoria. Victoria is the biggest market, but we've had 10 teams there since 1996. Most weeks there are 5 games in Victoria, sometimes 6, sometimes 4.

Rd 1 this year I would say is valuable. Stand alone Wed, Thur, Fri night matches, B2B2B games on Sat, B2B2B games on Sun. A more normal round like Rd 7 with Fri night, 5 games on Sat and 3 games on Sun overlapping is less desirable because the audience is split. If Collingwood are playing Carlton at the MCG then another game being on in Victoria adds little value broadcast wise. If for some reason a Vic team relocated the TV rights value would not diminish.



Suburban grounds are a nostalgic pipe dream. Fans don't want them. They say they do, but then rattle off excuses as to why they don't attend now. If Richmond and Hawthorn fans aren't going to attend t Docklands then they aren't going to Punt Rd or Glenferrie or Waverley to sit out in the rain.

Those clubs you mentioned historically draw low crowds and have low membership bases. I heard for years how WC/Freo got 77% of revenues at Subiaco Oval and that's unfair because Docklands was 30 or 40%. But it's a nothing comparison. WC/Freo paid millions in annual rent and got to keep revenues after costs. Is that really what Vic teams want? Of course not, because they can't generate as much revenue. When people say 'stadium deal' 9 times out of 10 they mean they want the fixed costs absorbed by the AFL/stadium operator, fixed revenue in their pocket for low crowds and variable revenue in their pocket for big crowds. It's unrealistic.

You're comparing apples with oranges. The stadium deal at Docklands for those club's is in comparison to the deal other teams at Docklands got (Essendon and Carlton) or the deal other Vic club s got at the G. The point remains those club's had no leverage to negotiate a better deal so blaming the club's for signing on to a poor deal (when in fact there was no deal for a while as after the initial deal expired there was no agreement, the club's were just scheduled to play games there anyway) is ridiculous.

 

[SimpkinByTheDockOfTheBay]

WA viewers are less valuable to Foxtel and 7 because 1) WCE/Freo games are shown on FTA so their supporters don't have to purchase Foxtel subs to watch their sides and 2) Perth is a small market so worth less to advertisers who pay the money to 7 which is what creates the value to them of having the footy in the first place

WA produces good raw talent that can be shaped by Victorian experience, but apart from that their overall contribution to the game is quite small, well below that of a Dogs or North.

 

[Papa G]

WA produces good raw talent that can be shaped by Victorian experience, but apart from that their overall contribution to the game is quite small, well below that of a Dogs or North.

Lol. Without the talent pilfered from WA and SA North would have zero VFL Flags and zero AFL Flags. They probably wouldn't even exist. North owes its very existence to players recruited from SA and WA. So STFU.

 

[SimpkinByTheDockOfTheBay]

Lol. Without the talent pilfered from WA and SA North would have zero VFL Flags and zero AFL Flags. They probably wouldn't even exist. North owes its very existence to players recruited from SA and WA. So STFU.

That's literally what I said.

Victoria shapes the raw talent that emerges from the backwaters and byways of SA and WA into proper Victorian Rules Football players who can excel where the game really counts ... in the nation's biggest city, the place that literally invented the game, the headquarters of the sport you love.

You'll have a first hand view of this process with Jason Horne-Francis over the next decade.

A brilliant raw talent from SA, that will be turned into the finished product at one of the great clubs of the land, which, as you say, has a proud record of turning hayseeds from Adelaide who can kick a bit into greats of our sports a la Malcolm Blight.

Then we'll trade him to you at 29 for two firsts.

And you'll take the deal.

And you know it.

 

[SimpkinByTheDockOfTheBay]

Just to be clear, Port were never an AFL power club.

They have such energy of the biggest kid in Grade 6 mouthing off on the first day of high school and getting their head flushed down the dunny by Year 9s.

 

[SimpkinByTheDockOfTheBay]

Financially responsible well managed clubs like ... Collingwood ... which (I'm being handed a note) ... blew up their salary cap and traded out top end talent for massive unders and are still actually paying Treloar to play for a flag while the Maggies will be bottom four.

FINANCIALLY RESPONSIBLE WELL MANAGED lol.

 

[Trent the flight Steward]

That's literally what I said.

Victoria shapes the raw talent that emerges from the backwaters and byways of SA and WA into proper Victorian Rules Football players who can excel where the game really counts ... in the nation's biggest city, the place that literally invented the game, the headquarters of the sport you love.

You'll have a first hand view of this process with Jason Horne-Francis over the next decade.

A brilliant raw talent from SA, that will be turned into the finished product at one of the great clubs of the land, which, as you say, has a proud record of turning hayseeds from Adelaide who can kick a bit into greats of our sports a la Malcolm Blight.

Then we'll trade him to you at 29 for two firsts.

And you'll take the deal.

And you know it.

Yep Blighty, cable, Glendinning, krakours Carey, Longmire, were rough diamonds.

The same club in north really polished mark Brayshaw, Robert pyman, Lachie Hanson, David Trotter, David Hale, Leigh brown, Dylan Smith, Ashley Watson, Brad McKenzie, Sam durdin from the first round by coming to the promised land of North Melbourne

 

[Trent the flight Steward]

Are there stats available for Foxtel/Kayo subscriptions per state? I vaguely recall there used to be data available for TV viewership per time slot per state for FTA and pay TV.

The value of the broadcast deal is driven by what the broadcasters want. And that's a game every weekend in WA, SA, Qld and NSW plus however many are needed in Victoria. Victoria is the biggest market, but we've had 10 teams there since 1996. Most weeks there are 5 games in Victoria, sometimes 6, sometimes 4.

Rd 1 this year I would say is valuable. Stand alone Wed, Thur, Fri night matches, B2B2B games on Sat, B2B2B games on Sun. A more normal round like Rd 7 with Fri night, 5 games on Sat and 3 games on Sun overlapping is less desirable because the audience is split. If Collingwood are playing Carlton at the MCG then another game being on in Victoria adds little value broadcast wise. If for some reason a Vic team relocated the TV rights value would not diminish.



Suburban grounds are a nostalgic pipe dream. Fans don't want them. They say they do, but then rattle off excuses as to why they don't attend now. If Richmond and Hawthorn fans aren't going to attend t Docklands then they aren't going to Punt Rd or Glenferrie or Waverley to sit out in the rain.

Those clubs you mentioned historically draw low crowds and have low membership bases. I heard for years how WC/Freo got 77% of revenues at Subiaco Oval and that's unfair because Docklands was 30 or 40%. But it's a nothing comparison. WC/Freo paid millions in annual rent and got to keep revenues after costs. Is that really what Vic teams want? Of course not, because they can't generate as much revenue. When people say 'stadium deal' 9 times out of 10 they mean they want the fixed costs absorbed by the AFL/stadium operator, fixed revenue in their pocket for low crowds and variable revenue in their pocket for big crowds. It's unrealistic.

North and the saints need to find a Ballarat, regional Vic to play the interstate sides like the dogs have done. They need to look at Morwell or Bendigo and play Sunday games there

 

[Rich01]

Interesting article by Niall.
Those top 7 clubs on that funding list aren’t unexpected.

I get some of the interstate teams and obviously the expansion sides. And it’s great that Melbourne, Footscray, North and St Kilda got a kick up the arse to be fiscally responsible. Let’s hope they get off the teet of the AFL sometime over the next decade and can finally stand on their own two feet without special support.

 

[Outtatym]

North and the saints need to find a Ballarat, regional Vic to play the interstate sides like the dogs have done. They need to look at Morwell or Bendigo and play Sunday games there

North put work into Ballarat (aligned with North Ballarat in the VFL for a number of years) and wanted it but the AFL took it off them and gifted it to the dogs. Hence why they play games in Tas.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

Financially responsible well managed clubs like ... Collingwood ... which (I'm being handed a note) ... blew up their salary cap and traded out top end talent for massive unders and are still actually paying Treloar to play for a flag while the Maggies will be bottom four.

FINANCIALLY RESPONSIBLE WELL MANAGED lol.

View attachment 1342387

I mean, surely every club in the comp would offer a 7 year/$7m deal to Grundy right? When he still had a year left on his contract? Right?

 

[Demonic Ascent]

Interesting article by Niall.
Those top 7 clubs on that funding list aren’t unexpected.

I get some of the interstate teams and obviously the expansion sides. And it’s great that Melbourne, Footscray, North and St Kilda got a kick up the arse to be fiscally responsible. Let’s hope they get off the teet of the AFL sometime over the next decade and can finally stand on their own two feet without special susupport

How long did it take Richmond to get off the AFL teet? Now that they're apparently a financial powerhouse and have 100k members should they start paying back some of that cash?

 

[Atomboy]

North and the saints need to find a Ballarat, regional Vic to play the interstate sides like the dogs have done. They need to look at Morwell or Bendigo and play Sunday games there

Too busy going to Alice Springs, Cairns, Canberra, NZ and even farking Shanghai !!.

 

[Scotland]

Financially responsible well managed clubs like ... Collingwood ... which (I'm being handed a note) ... blew up their salary cap and traded out top end talent for massive unders and are still actually paying Treloar to play for a flag while the Maggies will be bottom four.

FINANCIALLY RESPONSIBLE WELL MANAGED lol.

View attachment 1342387

How much are you paying Jared Polec to be on your rookie list?

I know you want North to be relevant, but potting teams for dud contracts is drawing a long bow given the clubs all operate with a hard salary cap and high salary cap floor.

 

[Rich01]

How long did it take Richmond to get off the AFL teet? Now that they're apparently a financial powerhouse and have 100k members should they start paying back some of that cash?

I’m not asking North, St Kilda etc to pay back the cash. I think they should now be able to stand on their own two feet and not get additional handouts. North is now debt free, with the help of some frugal spending and also additional afl handouts. Hopefully these clubs can stay debt free and also get off the teet to continue to do it legitimately.

 

[SimpkinByTheDockOfTheBay]

Yep Blighty, cable, Glendinning, krakours Carey, Longmire, were rough diamonds.

The same club in north really polished mark Brayshaw, Robert pyman, Lachie Hanson, David Trotter, David Hale, Leigh brown, Dylan Smith, Ashley Watson, Brad McKenzie, Sam durdin from the first round by coming to the promised land of North Melbourne

More than a few of them ruined by injury, but aye, they can't all be champions.

 

[SimpkinByTheDockOfTheBay]

North and the saints need to find a Ballarat, regional Vic to play the interstate sides like the dogs have done. They need to look at Morwell or Bendigo and play Sunday games there

North found Ballarat first as it were.

 

[SimpkinByTheDockOfTheBay]

I’m not asking North, St Kilda etc to pay back the cash. I think they should now be able to stand on their own two feet and not get additional handouts. North is now debt free, with the help of some frugal spending and also additional afl handouts. Hopefully these clubs can stay debt free and also get off the teet to continue to do it legitimately.

The desperate rank hypocrisy of this post from a Richmond supporter.

You guys are the bloke who used to smash a pack a day, gave up last month, and now lecture everyone else.

 

[SimpkinByTheDockOfTheBay]

How much are you paying Jared Polec to be on your rookie list?

Jared will playing Rd1.

I see you know what's happening at North very well.

 

[Trent the flight Steward]

North found Ballarat first as it were.

Yep north were first to Canberra too, what are they going to do with Tassie going to pull the plug?

 

[Rich01]

The desperate rank hypocrisy of this post from a Richmond supporter.

You guys are the bloke who used to smash a pack a day, gave up last month, and now lecture everyone else.

You sound more intelligent when you respond to the view in the post, rather than attack the posters club.

Tell me Simp, what is it you disagree with what I said?

 

[SimpkinByTheDockOfTheBay]

Yep north were first to Canberra too, what are they going to do with Tassie going to pull the plug?

Win flags.

We can't all be propped up by the Victorian taxpayers like the Geelong Leeches.