How the AFL’s ‘power’ clubs have lost power

[greatwhiteshark]

The teams that make money are the teams with season ticket holders.

Last game I went to in Melbourne was a Bulldogs home game. GA ticket at the gate cost me $20-something. Of that $20-something how much do you reckon filtered down to the home team? Last WC game I went to was in E Reserve (nosebleeds) which is $410 a year ($41/game). A Reserve is $850 a year and there are a bunch of categories above that for $1195 and $1675 before you get into corporate seats. This is where the club makes money.

I don't know the breakdown of Freo's (current, still pre-season) 43k membership but a a sold out Freo home derby does not make the home club as much money as a sold out WC home derby with fewer tickets on sale to the public/opposition members. Freo's membership is pretty solid, but in the 90s and early 2000s it was in the low to mid 20,000s so a derby could get close to a 50/50 split of support. These days it's predominantly home crowd support for either side. But even if 60,000 Freo fans turn up to a Freo home derby the additional 5, 10, 15k on top of season ticket holders still aren't as lucrative for the home side's coffers.

The AFL love drumming up 'blockbusters!' because big ticket sales mean money in their pockets. If Essendon play at Docklands and the game sells a few more tickets than forecast on top of however many Essendon season ticket holders are there the AFL doesn't make a song and dance about it. If Essendon play an MCG home game 70 or 80k turn up Gil and co are high fiving in the hallway. Clubs like big crowds because it makes them some extra money and helps to drive sponsorship interest but first prize is still getting season ticket holders paying a premium for that privilege.

If Victorian fans want to pick and choose which games to go to and buy tickets on the day then great, just remember that no stadium deal is going to give you $50 a patron if you only bring in $20.

So are you saying the Vic club memberships don't include reserved seating? Why be a member if you don't want a seat to the game?

 

[Demonic Ascent]

So are you saying the Vic club memberships don't include reserved seating? Why be a member if you don't want a seat to the game?

Some do, some memberships just give GA access to home games.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

Some do, some memberships just give GA access to home games.

The most common membership would be the 11 game reserved seating? Or because of the MCG stadium size do many just pay a small membership cost and pay GA to games?

 

[Rob]

If the AFL let each Melbourne-based side have a clean stadium like the non-Melbourne sides get with a half decent stadium deal, would that go some of the way to making clubs more viable? Or is it better that so much money from MCG and Docklands games go straight into the pockets of the AFL which allows them to garner a better deal to distribute among the league at their discretion?

No, it's the opposite. If they were to get a clean stadium deal, they'd have to cough up millions in rent. The big clubs could make this back, but the smaller clubs wouldn't so the gap would widen.

I've got no doubt the current arrangements where clubs pay no rent but forego a lot of revenue streams benefit the smaller clubs, because they're foregoing space that they wouldn't otherwise sell.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

The most common membership would be the 11 game reserved seating? Or because of the MCG stadium size do many just pay a small membership cost and pay GA to games?

I have no idea what the split would be but there are GA memberships, reserved area memberships (you get into specific bays not specific seats) and reserved seat memberships.

 

[Kwality]

So are you saying the Vic club memberships don't include reserved seating? Why be a member if you don't want a seat to the game?

Money ? A reserved seat costs more ..

Season seating Eagles style has been an aim of the Bombers at Docklands, Brian Cook promoted the same model at Geelong.
The control of the MCG so dominates the clubs that call it 'home' (not when they are calling it 'away'), I'm unaware of any club that sells out its season seating, happy to be put straight if wrong.

 

[Kwality]

No, it's the opposite. If they were to get a clean stadium deal, they'd have to cough up millions in rent. The big clubs could make this back, but the smaller clubs wouldn't so the gap would widen.

I've got no doubt the current arrangements where clubs pay no rent but forego a lot of revenue streams benefit the smaller clubs, because they're foregoing space that they wouldn't otherwise sell.

The MCC do have clean stadium arrangements for other sports. They have the AFL by the short & curlys.

 

[Rob]

The MCC do have clean stadium arrangements for other sports. They have the AFL by the short & curlys.

That is true, the MCG has hosted events in the past where seats in the MCC reserve have been sold publicly.

Shows just how incompetent the AFL was not to have this at AFL grand finals. Should have been a non negotiable condition of the contract.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

The most common membership would be the 11 game reserved seating? Or because of the MCG stadium size do many just pay a small membership cost and pay GA to games?

Put it this way, Richmond have over 100k, Collingwood 80k and they play at the MCG with around 60k seats give or take (removing MCC and AFL Members). There are still large areas of GA available at most games so they might have 30k reserved area/seat members max with the rest GA or restricted access memberships (non-access, 3 game etc)

 

[Kwality]

That is true, the MCG has hosted events in the past where seats in the MCC reserve have been sold publicly.

Shows just how incompetent the AFL was not to have this at AFL grand finals. Should have been a non negotiable condition of the contract.

The State Government & the MCC tell the AFL whats going down.

 

[Scotland]

So are you saying the Vic club memberships don't include reserved seating? Why be a member if you don't want a seat to the game?

'Member' is a nothing term now. We had 106,000 members last year and at most have about 50-55,000 seats available to sell.

Until Optus Stadium opened the only WC membership option was an 11 game reserved seat if you lived in Perth. Vic clubs typically have lots of categories.

You can be a GA member of Richmond for $24 a game. At that price there's not a lot of margin to be made, but if you've got 50,000 of them then it adds up.

 

[Freomaniac]

Is it true West Coast has only won flags with Victorian coaches ... why yes it is.

That North takes rough WA product and shapes it into premiership players is true.

The proof is that WA teams can't win flags without a Victorian coach.

WA is relatively new to the Victorian game, so this makes logical sense.

In 2006, eagles won a flag with John Worsfold as coach. I don't think he is a Victorian. He is a WA boy a south freo product exactly

 

[Freomaniac]

Too busy going to Alice Springs, Cairns, Canberra, NZ and even farking Shanghai !!.

In a perfect World, some one puts up 50 million to add seats to Moorabbin oval. Turn it in an AFL standard oval that holds 30-35,000 seats and its a clean stadium Deal like Kardinia Park.

 

[Rusty Brookes]

So are you saying the Vic club memberships don't include reserved seating? Why be a member if you don't want a seat to the game?

Standing room is where the action is.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Put it this way, Richmond have over 100k, Collingwood 80k and they play at the MCG with around 60k seats give or take (removing MCC and AFL Members). There are still large areas of GA available at most games so they might have 30k reserved area/seat members max with the rest GA or restricted access memberships (non-access, 3 game etc)

Both reserves are "officially" around 23k, though they can both be scaled up or down somewhat to allow GA (the fences are simply moved). The G currently holds 100,024 so the GA area is 54,024.

Clubs have a huge range of membership options from GA to 3 games to 11 games to home and away games.

With clubs pushing 100k members there's obviously a lot more to a membership than game access. In the age of digital marketing, the size of your database is of huge importance to sponsors. If you have 120k people you can speak directly to via email or mobile - and you know a bit about their behavior - then that is very, very valuable.

Clubs want you on their database, that's why they offer so many membership options.

 

[Tackle Bag]

I must admit I'm questioning whether to bother with my higher end membership anymore. The club cant actually use the extra money my membership gives them on anything that actually provides an onfield advantage. The soft cap has killed any chance of that. Its not like the Tigers are struggling for a dollar anymore. I may as well buy a base membership and spend the money saved on good tickets to any final we might make.

 

[Smurftown#11]

WA viewers are less valuable to Foxtel and 7 because 1) WCE/Freo games are shown on FTA so their supporters don't have to purchase Foxtel subs to watch their sides and 2) Perth is a small market so worth less to advertisers who pay the money to 7 which is what creates the value to them of having the footy in the first place

I do wish people would remember these details when there is whinging about GWS & GC.

That is the exact reason that the AFL can afford to prop them up.

Their value to the AFL's media rights deals, providing second games to the lucrative Sydney & Brisbane TV markets, far outweighs the dollars the AFL sinks into those franchises

 

[Kwality]

That's not true. Our debt wasn't as bad as the media painted it to be. It was easily serviced, with assets to back it up. We've got debt with something to show for it, unlike some clubs that have no debt but nothing to show.

Can you elaborate on the debt & the assets behind you comment.

 

[jwikked]

Can you elaborate on the debt & the assets behind you comment.

Look up the financial statement from last year, it's not hard to find.

 

[Kwality]

I do wish people would remember these details when there is whinging about GWS & GC.

That is the exact reason that the AFL can afford to prop them up.

Their value to the AFL's media rights deals, providing second games to the lucrative Sydney & Brisbane TV markets, far outweighs the dollars the AFL sinks into those franchises

VOZ is going to provide a better measure of the value of individual games to the media companies tendering on the media rights.

What is VOZ?
'Virtual Australia, or ‘VOZ’, is the foundation of Australia’s new Total TV reporting standard. Conceived and developed by OzTAM, Regional TAM and Nielsen, VOZ will bring together broadcast+ viewing on TV sets (OzTAM and Regional TAM TV ratings) and connected devices (OzTAM’s VPM Report) to provide all-screen, cross-platform planning and reporting for Australia’s television industry.'

What effect that has on the total dollars paid, more $s or less, this information will influence the advertising spend.

https://oztam.com.au/documents/Other/OzTAM_Website_VOZ__FAQs.pdf

See some examples from media site Mumbrella:

Seven’s Cricket Fourth Test - The Ashes Day Five tops Week 3 VOZ report

Seven’s Cricket Fourth Test – The Ashes Day Five has topped the latest Total TV Top 20 Programs Consolidated 7 Audience VOZ report for entertainment in Week 3.In the report, covering 9 January to 15 January, the sporting event took the #1 spot in entertainment, but #2 overall, with a total of...

mumbrella.com.au

or

The 2022 Australian Open men's final episode wins VOZ Week 6

The 2022 Australian Open men’s final episode on Nine has topped the latest Total TV Top 20 Programs Consolidated 7 Audience VOZ report for television Week 6.In the report, covering 30 January to 5 February, the entertainment program took the #1 spot with a total of 2.431 million viewers...

mumbrella.com.au

 

[Kwality]

Look up the financial statement from last year, it's not hard to find.

I was more interested in your take.

 

[Kwality]

In a perfect World, some one puts up 50 million to add seats to Moorabbin oval. Turn it in an AFL standard oval that holds 30-35,000 seats and its a clean stadium Deal like Kardinia Park.

The negative is the number of games FIXtured at any venue. Whats Kardinia Park 10 games, Tas venues currently ?
The best a non Melbourne venue gets is 22?

Another example of the 1920s home & away protocol failing a national comp in the 2020s.

 

[Kwality]

The G currently holds 100,024 so the GA area is 54,024.

I understand the Eagles were originally limited to 50k at Optus & filled that with every seat of the 50k presold.

I've never understood what holds back presold seating for the Melbourne clubs boasting significantly members at the G.
Dont the Pies offer a 17 game package?

Digressing, its difficult to compare clubs members & the dollars from the various Financials. I am sure all the clubs & the AFL know, just dont care to let the public in on it.

 

[Freomaniac]

The negative is the number of games FIXtured at any venue. Whats Kardinia Park 10 games, Tas venues currently ?
The best a non Melbourne venue gets is 22?

Another example of the 1920s home & away protocol failing a national comp in the 2020s.

Whats your point?

The SA and WA teams have 12 games in their home state.

North, Saints and dogs fans moan about the docklands stadium Deal. Well those clubs were persuaded or suckered into that deal. Thats not my fault or your fault.

People complain about Collingwood and Richmond getting 14-16 games at the MCG each year.

There is no way the AFL would let Collingwood play all 8 non vic sides in their home state in the same season. They wont let Collingwood play a North game in Tassie.

Only way Collingwood gets a game in tassie is when a Tassie side comes in .

 

[Kwality]

Whats your point?

The SA and WA teams have 12 games in their home state.

North, Saints and dogs fans moan about the docklands stadium Deal. Well those clubs were persuaded or suckered into that deal. Thats not my fault or your fault.

People complain about Collingwood and Richmond getting 14-16 games at the MCG each year.

There is no way the AFL would let Collingwood play all 8 non vic sides in their home state in the same season. They wont let Collingwood play a North game in Tassie.

Only way Collingwood gets a game in tassie is when a Tassie side comes in .

My point is bang for your buck, more games lower the fixed costs on a per game basis.
Its a discussion point, not a right or wrong issue.