How the game has evolved

[Roaming Lou]

I was wondering if anyone thinks that the game has evolved in a good way?, and if not what can be done to change it.
I'll start
I think that game game has become too slow, and less spectacular. One thing could do is shorten the time a player has on a mark as well as increase the marking range from 15 to 20 meters.

 

[mike123]

I think your proposed changes will slow the game down. Moving the marking range from 15 to 20 metres will give less options to the attacker and make him slow down and think more whilst making it more predictable for defenders especially when kicking inside 50.

 

[Macpotata]

Fox Footy's been brilliant in the off season. Showing classic games, beats the s**t out the crap they play these days.



It resembled FOOTBALL

 

[Roaming Lou]

I think your proposed changes will slow the game down. Moving the marking range from 15 to 20 metres will give less options to the attacker and make him slow down and think more whilst making it more predictable for defenders especially when kicking inside 50.

Possibly though I'm also thinking that there is way to much chipping in the modern game. Increasing the marking range might bring back the long kicks and the high marks

 

[RUNVS]

I still very much think a team prior opportunity is a good idea, where if you handball it to a teammate that teammate immediately loses all prior opportunity. Would force players to get the ball out of packs and congestion quickly, rather than doing 4 or 5 small handballs in an effort to find space, often resulting in more ball ups.

 

[Farang83150]

It's was slowly moving in the right direction re becoming a truly national competition until mclachlan forced it backwards.

 

[Roaming Lou]

It's was slowly moving in the right direction re becoming a truly national competition until mclachlan forced it backwards.

Whats your idea of truly national competition then?

 

[Farang83150]

Whats your idea of truly national competition then?

A rotating GF venue.
I'm not looking for an argument, just my opinion of a truly national competition.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

Sport was better when it was bankrolled by tobacco.

Gambling is the problem here.

 

[Breretonisahood]

I was wondering if anyone thinks that the game has evolved in a good way?, and if not what can be done to change it.
I'll start
I think that game game has become too slow, and less spectacular. One thing could do is shorten the time a player has on a mark as well as increase the marking range from 15 to 20 meters.

Been watching since the 60s. Main changes have been increased fitness that started with Kennedy’s Commandos and Tommy Hafey’s Richmond in the 60s and increased use of handball offensively, started by Polly Farmer, which sped the game up and it became really direct with an emphasis on rapid scoring. In the 80’s the complaint was that the game resembled basketball- the ball just whizzing from one end to the other. Watch the 89 GF or the 80s SOO games as examples. The mid 90’s saw the start of much more defensive structuring which led to the game we have now. You can make all the rule changes you like, but modern coaches will always find a way to stop opponents scoring. I think we’re stuck with the game as it currently is, unless some genius works out an attacking game plan that overcomes the very effective defensive strategies that modern coaches use.

 

[HTT]

The game has finally come of age really, with professional players and proper tactics.
The biggest problem with the game is the dinosaurs who change rules to try to take the game back to what it was. It’s not going to happen. It’s undergone irreversible change. There are fundamentals of this that coaches will always put in place first, and once that’s sorted, they will innovate. When you change the rules, the first thing coaches will do is ensure the fundamentals still work. That’s less time dedicated to actually innovating and changing the game to something which may be more to your taste.

I guess what’s happening is similar to walking through a fire and getting burnt. Then longing for the time when you weren’t burnt so you walk back to the other side of the fire. And walk through it again. Sounds a bit dumb yeah?

 

[Roaming Lou]

Been watching since the 60s. Main changes have been increased fitness that started with Kennedy’s Commandos and Tommy Hafey’s Richmond in the 60s and increased use of handball offensively, started by Polly Farmer, which sped the game up and it became really direct with an emphasis on rapid scoring. In the 80’s the complaint was that the game resembled basketball- the ball just whizzing from one end to the other. Watch the 89 GF or the 80s SOO games as examples. The mid 90’s saw the start of much more defensive structuring which led to the game we have now. You can make all the rule changes you like, but modern coaches will always find a way to stop opponents scoring. I think we’re stuck with the game as it currently is, unless some genius works out an attacking game plan that overcomes the very effective defensive strategies that modern coaches use.

The game has finally come of age really, with professional players and proper tactics.
The biggest problem with the game is the dinosaurs who change rules to try to take the game back to what it was. It’s not going to happen. It’s undergone irreversible change. There are fundamentals of this that coaches will always put in place first, and once that’s sorted, they will innovate. When you change the rules, the first thing coaches will do is ensure the fundamentals still work. That’s less time dedicated to actually innovating and changing the game to something which may be more to your taste.

I guess what’s happening is similar to walking through a fire and getting burnt. Then longing for the time when you weren’t burnt so you walk back to the other side of the fire. And walk through it again. Sounds a bit dumb yeah?

I guess your right, I have discussed this with my dad many times and he is of the same opinion. History shows us that there is never balance, there is always a supremacy of defence or a supremacy of offence. I guess in footy though offence is WAY more exciting than defence

 

[RUNVS]

I guess your right, I have discussed this with my dad many times and he is of the same opinion. History shows us that there is never balance, there is always a supremacy of defence or a supremacy of offence. I guess in footy though offence is WAY more exciting than defence

In an ideal world there would be on average 180 points scored a game.

 

[Kwality]

Fiddling with the rules is not evolution IMHO - 18+2 replacements has become 18+ 4 interchange, of course the game got quicker.

 

[tropicaltiger]

in 1972

Team	Q1	Q2	Q3	Final
Carlton	8.4 (52)	18.6 (114)	25.9 (159)	28.9 (177)
Richmond	5.4 (34)	10.9 (69)	15.15 (105)	22.18 (150)

and then in 1977
When Hawthorn played St Kilda 40 years ago in Round 6 1977, the Hawks set two records which remain in place to this day.

Hawthorn’s extraordinary score of 25.41.191 v Saints 16.7.103


Hard to comprehend the way footy was played in the 70's in the days of those Jezza, Lethal, KB legends of yesteryear. different today, where if both teams kick over 14 goals its a shootout.

 

[NoobPie]

Fox Footy's been brilliant in the off season. Showing classic games, beats the s**t out the crap they play these days.



It resembled FOOTBALL

So you find classics games from the past more entertaining than the average modern game?

 

[Roaming Lou]

When Hawthorn played St Kilda 40 years ago in Round 6 1977, the Hawks set two records which remain in place to this day.

Hawthorn’s extraordinary score of 25.41.191 v Saints 16.7.103

Holy cow
St. Kilda score over 100 points and still get smashed
This really is St. Kilda in a nutshell
Is there any footage of this game on youtube?

 

[gingernuts]

I believe that the game changed significantly when the coaches adopted soccer tactics. Malthouse at West Coast with switching the play and trying to create space was the instigator. change direction whilst keeping possession and attack the space.

 

[tropicaltiger]

Holy cow
St. Kilda score over 100 points and still get smashed
This really is St. Kilda in a nutshell
Is there any footage of this game on youtube?

best i could find with quick looksy

Footy flashbacks: Round 6

A look back at our history with the Saints and our Round 6 record.

www.hawthornfc.com.au

 

[dropbear101]

Interesting thread, I believe you can boil it down to tactical eras.
We are a copy cat league, if the tactic is successful then you obviously follow it. (If you don't think coaches control how the game looks, watch any ross lyon game)

I don't know about things much prior to the 2000s. But aesthetically 2000-2004 all you had to do was watch brisbane lions, because they were all conquering and everyone copied them.
The 2004 GF came along and delivered a shock to the football world. it wasn't much of an upset win by port, but the fact the lions lost showed the football world that those were the tactics to employ.
This era was aethetically similar until 2008 GF where alastair clarkson delivered a new shock by knocking off geelong. Everyone subsequently followed those new tactics. Thus began the clarkson era which lasted until 2016.

The current era is the assistants of clarkson era 2016 GF came along and the bulldogs knocked off everyone another shock to the tactical intelligentsia. However due to the fact they were a bit of the one hit wonder those tactics failed to dominate the league. However sides did employ some of their tactics.
Thus we are now in a bastardized version of clarkson school of thought everyone wants to be either bulldogs who ground sides down or hawks. but nobody in the league has the same forward line to take advantage of this hawthorn elite ball use(thus the game is played between the arcs as teams can stop it except for a few really top teams). Nobody has the dog 2016 midfield so those games just turn into a slog. Basically every game now is played between the arcs and is a slog.

interesting it follows a coaching lineage williams=>clarkson=> bevridge, hardwick, simpson

However perhaps we are about to enter a new era richmond won extremely convincingly and their game style is fastest ball movement you can manage without being kicking orientated.

2004 to 2008 was my favorite era.

 

[Coach_Required]

Holy cow
St. Kilda score over 100 points and still get smashed
This really is St. Kilda in a nutshell
Is there any footage of this game on youtube?

Saints not the only team this happened too, I remember this game because I was living in Sydney at the time.

 

[KissKiss]

Fiddling with the rules is not evolution IMHO - 18+2 replacements has become 18+ 4 interchange, of course the game got quicker.

Increased fitness as the competition got professional added to the unlimited interchange made massive changes to the sport. I still maintain that moving to interchange didnt improve things. I'm generally in the minority but would happily go back to limited substitutions (per game or per quarter) so they had to be used tactically.

 

[Grrr]

I think the game has gotten back some of it's flair and attacking qualities. Speaking from a Richmond perspective we scored 91 pt's a game, which is not too shabby to watch.

I think having two good forwards to kick the ball long to is one of the reasons and reminded me a bit of Richmond in the 80's with Cloke and Roach and a swarm of crumbers like Bartlett and Wiley. Moving the ball quickly to a strong forward line has always meant a more entertaining and attacking game. North with Carey and Longmire, Brisbane with Lynch and Brown, Hawthorn, Franklin & Roughead.
I did not like the game when it was played ultra defensively with rolling packs, the Sydney style from 10-15 years or so ago, and think the game is pretty good at the moment.

 

[Roaming Lou]

I think the game has gotten back some of it's flair and attacking qualities. Speaking from a Richmond perspective we scored 91 pt's a game, which is not too shabby to watch.

I think having two good forwards to kick the ball long to is one of the reasons and reminded me a bit of Richmond in the 80's with Cloke and Roach and a swarm of crumbers like Bartlett and Wiley. Moving the ball quickly to a strong forward line has always meant a more entertaining and attacking game. North with Carey and Longmire, Brisbane with Lynch and Brown, Hawthorn, Franklin & Roughead.
I did not like the game when it was played ultra defensively with rolling packs, the Sydney style from 10-15 years or so ago, and think the game is pretty good at the moment.

I see where your coming from, but the game can be quite boring with many stoppages as well as teams certainly taking their time after a mark.

 

[Grrr]

I see where your coming from, but the game can be quite boring with many stoppages as well as teams certainly taking their time after a mark.

True, tempo footy is okay as long as it doesn't go on. In one sided contests this tends to happen more. Premiership sides tend to set the style of football being played. Most of the top sides at the moment fairly attacking football, so in theory the rest should follow.