How the small Melbourne clubs saved footy

[Goomba1973]

Shouldn't this be in the unpopular opinions thread?

 

[Goomba1973]

So the small Melbourne clubs who require AFL financial assistance to exist at all use that financial assistance given to them to pay for stadium that they cannot fill....So in actuality it's the AFL that are paying the tenancy on Docklands and by default saved the competition themselves.

 

[Freomaniac]

The AFL has had rivers of gold no question, been able to spend than they had.

Its the spending that keeps the clubs alive. The Bank covenant that keeps the AFL honest. In theory the Commission oversees the admin, now the Bank effectively overviews the spending.

The Brad Scott exit from North was underwritten by the AFL & a job created when he did not get a coaching gig elsewhere - no more of this stuff

Imho the club budgets will document their spending, the Bank will sign off on it & require it to be complied with for 14 of the clubs

I found that a bit weird.

Gets sacked by North and Somehow gets another AFL job.

Ross Lyon was sacked this time last year by the dockers. Ross Lyon had one more year left on his contract But Freo decided to pay out his final year and get a new coach because they had the money to do so.

 

[Freomaniac]

The crowds are fine, the league has been generating huge revenue where it pays for grass roots footy around the country where other league in the world don’t, they have money to create teams out of thin air to put in “growing” markets where other leagues in the world don’t. The AFL has been doing fine with 10 teams in Victoria.

The Swans have been in Sydney for 37 years, have had superstar players Lockett, Goodes, Franklin, plenty of finals, 5 Grand Finals, 2 premierships yet only average 53000 people watching them play on tv each week from a city of 5.3 million in 2019. Why can’t Sydney draw in their fair share of TV revenue after 37 years?

2019 AFL season by the TV ratings numbers - Sports Industry AU

Note: the below article was published on TV Blackbox on September 30th. Follow them on twitter at @TV_Blackbox At a

www.footyindustry.com

But who cares about tv numbers, as long as people from Sydney get to enjoy watching their team play, Who cares if North don’t have as many supporters and don’t draw as big of crowds as other clubs, why can’t North fans enjoy watching their club play? The league generates a fortune each year.

AFL is a unique beast compared to the other Sports.

In European Soccer, its not about Grass roots. Its about making money. Its about buying and selling players. Its not about state leagues, its about youth academies and bigger clubs buying players from smaller clubs. More of a who is higher in the food chain scenario.

 

[Kwality]

I found that a bit weird.

Gets sacked by North and Somehow gets another AFL job.

Ross Lyon was sacked this time last year by the dockers. Ross Lyon had one more year left on his contract But Freo decided to pay out his final year and get a new coach because they had the money to do so.

Different strokes from the AFL, that is not strange.

 

[Freomaniac]

So the billions of dollars in TV and sponsor deals weren't used to pay for the stadium? Without all 18 clubs, the competition doesn't survive this year. Big clubs drawing in money over years and years. NSW and QLD clubs expanding the reach of the league. Small clubs as you say filling in the gaps. To say one subset of clubs specifically saved the league is a bit rich.

again I agree with your post.

Lookin' back now.... That 2012-17 tv rights value was 1.25 billion over that 5-6 year period. Imagine if the AFL saved just 10 per cent of that. Would of been 125 Millon.

Then the tv rights money was 2.6 billion over 6 years from 2018-2023. 10 percent of that is 260 million.

Now.... If the AFL saved 10 percent of the tv rights money rather than stuffing it to their back pockets, I am not saying it would of prevent all of this corona virus .

It would of at least softened the blow.

North or saints or dogs could of averaged 20,000 people at $30 per ticket. Yes that is $600,000 a game.

So times that by 11 is 6.6 million. It's very small compared to the AFL getting 2.6 billion over 6 years or around 400 million a year.

 

[The_Wookie]

again I agree with your post.

Lookin' back now.... That 2012-17 tv rights value was 1.25 billion over that 5-6 year period. Imagine if the AFL saved just 10 per cent of that. Would of been 125 Millon.

Then the tv rights money was 2.6 billion over 6 years from 2018-2023. 10 percent of that is 260 million.

Now.... If the AFL saved 10 percent of the tv rights money rather than stuffing it to their back pockets, I am not saying it would of prevent all of this corona virus .

It would of at least softened the blow.

North or saints or dogs could of averaged 20,000 people at $30 per ticket. Yes that is $600,000 a game.

So times that by 11 is 6.6 million. It's very small compared to the AFL getting 2.6 billion over 6 years or around 400 million a year.

273m+ is distributed back to the clubs every year. The league had 120m in a future fund - and the clubs were arcing up about THAT - theres no way they could get away with squirelling much more away - no one predicted a world wide pandemic. No one.

 

[Blackas87]

AFL is a unique beast compared to the other Sports.

In European Soccer, its not about Grass roots. Its about making money. Its about buying and selling players. Its not about state leagues, its about youth academies and bigger clubs buying players from smaller clubs. More of a who is higher in the food chain scenario.

European Soccer is all about the same handful of teams winning year after year. Leagues aren’t really a competition, just whoever has more money wins.

The AFL generates enough money to support the people of Australia’s preference of actually having a competition. Enough money to support grass roots footy, enough money to create new teams in growing markets, where we can see these small teams (GWS) play off in Grand Finals against big clubs (Richmond). Since the AFL name was adopted in 1990 we have multiple premierships won from every state, every club bar Gold Coast has made a grand final, everyone can dream one day their club will reach the promise land and the league generates enough money for this to happen.

 

[Kwality]

Now.... If the AFL saved 10 percent of the tv rights money rather than stuffing it to their back pockets, I am not saying it would of prevent all of this corona virus .

Agree with the sentiment however the facts are the real estate that is Docklands is a result of a financial decision.

There is a widely held view that its a 'not for profit' as are the clubs - that is no excuse for ignoring prudent financial management.

 

[Freomaniac]

European Soccer is all about the same handful of teams winning year after year. Leagues aren’t really a competition, just whoever has more money wins.

The AFL generates enough money to support the people of Australia’s preference of actually having a competition. Enough money to support grass roots footy, enough money to create new teams in growing markets, where we can see these small teams (GWS) play off in Grand Finals against big clubs (Richmond). Since the AFL name was adopted in 1990 we have multiple premierships won from every state, every club bar Gold Coast has made a grand final, everyone can dream one day their club will reach the promise land and the league generates enough money for this to happen.

I agree with this post. Yes there's the same handful of clubs contending in winning the league.

Saying that I look at a team like Bournemouth that was recently relegated.

10 years ago, they nearly were bankrupt. They slowly fought their way up to the upper leagues. 2015-6 season was the 1st year of them in the EPL. They got 80-90 million in tv money alone just to stay up. Show how much money is in the sport.

 

[Freomaniac]

Agree with the sentiment however the facts are the real estate that is Docklands is a result of a financial decision.

There is a widely held view that its a 'not for profit' as are the clubs - that is no excuse for ignoring prudent financial management.

Again I agree. But I think the OP said that North is saving the AFL from bankruptcy is a stretch.

Again..... Both your mob and Brisbane paying 4 million each to join this league at the end of 1986 saved this league from going under

 

[Freomaniac]

It's not publicly available data-- but the commercial value of additional supporters in Victoria (through those two extra teams) would have a higher value to Foxtel than interstate sides.

A West Coast supporter living in Perth has no need to purchase Foxtel or Kayo to watch their team play as the Eagles are on FTA every week in WA, the same as a Crows supporter living in Adelaide, or a Lions supporter living in Brisbane.

But as a Richmond supporter living in Melbourne I rely on Foxtel or Kayo to be able to see my team on TV every week. Therefore more likely to sign up to Foxtel.

Victorian supporters are the ones paying for the Foxtel memberships and keeping that half of the TV deal afloat.

Solid post and I agree with this too.

I am not a Richmond supporter by any stretch.

But if you are a Richmond fan that lives outside of Victoria, and yes, I know a few in my home state of South Australia, again, like you, rely on kayo or Foxtel for access to those games too.

The only difference is Richmond fans in that home state of Victoria can go to the stadium and see them play too.

 

[BringBackTorps]

Not sure if this. info. has been included in this Thread before- can anyone confirm both points?

. Several BF posters in this other Thread have said that J. Dunstall, in 2014, said that GC "can break even financially with crowds of only 7k" at Metricon.
Is this true? Links?
(I vaguely recall a similar MSM claim that GWS can also break even if GWS gets a 7k crowd at Giants Stadium. Is this correct? Links?)

. Also, "In 2011, NMFC made just $97,540 from 11 home games at DS...with seven losses on games with crowds of less than 28,000" each game.

Unequal stadium deals and the impact of massive spending increases by the Rich Clubs

I heard today Dunstall said that GC have a stadium attendance break even number of 7000. Does anyone know what our break even attendance number is and I would be really interested to see the figures from other clubs, anyone know where i can find this info? This article isn't exactly what you...

www.bigfooty.com

(Scroll tp post# 201 & 206)

This old Thread has much information that is relevant to this Thread ie NMFC, Footscray, & St Kilda "helped save footy" by enabling the AFL to obtain a very "cheap" (for itself only!) deal to eventually buy DS (an asset worth c. $1.5b- pre covid)

 

[Kwality]

These motherhood claims over stadium deals are rarely reflected in clubs financials.

The reality of all clubs in 2020 is Jobkeeper kept the code afloat.

 

[What else we can do]

If North, Bulldogs, and the Saints remained at Arden St, Whitten oval and Moorabbin. Then developed the ground for say 30,000 and played interstate teams would they have have made more at the gate?

 

[madmug]

If North, Bulldogs, and the Saints remained at Arden St, Whitten oval and Moorabbin. Then developed the ground for say 30,000 and played interstate teams would they have have made more at the gate?

Provided someone else paid for the redevelopment, maybe. They wouldn't take the risk otherwise.

 

[Freomaniac]

If North, Bulldogs, and the Saints remained at Arden St, Whitten oval and Moorabbin. Then developed the ground for say 30,000 and played interstate teams would they have have made more at the gate?

As posted, I assure you, saints fans would love to play AFL games at Moorabbin oval.

They would love some Random person play 100 million on upgrades such as Turning Moorabbin oval into a 30-35,000 seat stadium and a cheap rent deal like geelong cats have with kardinia park

 

[What else we can do]

If the Bulldogs can play in front of 10 thousand at Ballarat why can't they play at Whitten Oval for a one off game?

 

[What else we can do]

When ground rationalisation started why didn't the big clubs like Bombers, Pies etc.. develop Windy Hill and Vic Park say to 40,000 capacity? They would of made a killing playing in front of their own fans and continued the tradition of the away team being intimidated playing there?

 

[Kwality]

If the Bulldogs can play in front of 10 thousand at Ballarat why can't they play at Whitten Oval for a one off game?

What is your understanding of the financing of the games in Ballarat?

 

[BF Tiger]

When ground rationalisation started why didn't the big clubs like Bombers, Pies etc.. develop Windy Hill and Vic Park say to 40,000 capacity? They would of made a killing playing in front of their own fans and continued the tradition of the away team being intimidated playing there?

Collingwood didn't own Vic Park. It belonged and still belongs to the City of Yarra (and whatever the local council was before that). It is also tightly hemmed in on three sides by residential housing. On the fourth side is the train line. The area has minimal car parking. Windy Hill likely faced the same problems, and when the Bombers did try to upgrade the area they were denied by the local bowls club.

 

[What else we can do]

What is your understanding of the financing of the games in Ballarat?

0

 

[What else we can do]

Collingwood didn't own Vic Park. It belonged and still belongs to the City of Yarra (and whatever the local council was before that). It is also tightly hemmed in on three sides by residential housing. On the fourth side is the train line. The area has minimal car parking. Windy Hill likely faced the same problems, and when the Bombers did try to upgrade the area they were denied by the local bowls club.

surprising that they both played games till the 90s

 

[telsor]

If North, Bulldogs, and the Saints remained at Arden St, Whitten oval and Moorabbin. Then developed the ground for say 30,000 and played interstate teams would they have have made more at the gate?

At the gate, sure.

Trouble is, they would have run into the same problem Carlton did at PP and find the costs of servicing the debts incurred in expansion and maintenance outweighed the extra gate takings.

If they could get someone else to pay for it (e.g. Geelong), then it would have been a good deal for them.

 

[What else we can do]

At the gate, sure.

Trouble is, they would have run into the same problem Carlton did at PP and find the costs of servicing the debts incurred in expansion and maintenance outweighed the extra gate takings.

If they could get someone else to pay for it (e.g. Geelong), then it would have been a good deal for them.

Got it I know how much the debt from the Legends Stand still impacts Carlton FC today. It's a shame the AFL don't play games at these grounds anymore with minor upgrades eg play a heritage round Ess v Suns at Windy Hill or Pies v Giants at Vic park once a year. But the dollar rules at the end of the day I guess.