Opinion How to Build a Forward Line

[Patty_Moz]

Finished last year as 16th for points for. Start this year = 16th for points.

Obviously our Achilles heel and injuries aren’t helping. Some say it’s delivery but really hard to kick it to players who can’t get ahead on leads or win contests.

There’s scope for positives like Sturt plays 15+ games, Henry/Frederick/Treacey/Switta/Crowden actually show something but based off round 1 that’s going to take a while.


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[Purple Jesus]

What's the point in going to the footy and paying money if you're not going to get behind the team? I just don't get it.

If you haven’t lost your voice by the end of the game you haven’t done your job.

 

[trentjac]

If you haven’t lost your voice by the end of the game you haven’t done your job.

Agreed. As much sh!t as we pile on those WCE supporters (and rightfully so) they make it very uncomfortable for opposition teams and umpires through their unwavering support for their team

 

[Docker82]

Perhaps 'cheap' is not the right term - I class the Hamling, Hill and Aish trades as relatively cheap pick-ups. Low risk maybe? - so not first rounders where you are giving up a top quality draftee. Like the Hogan trade or what we supposedly almost did with McCarthy a year earlier than we traded him in.

I don't have a huge problem with the others you listed (you missed the ones that are ok) as it's pretty hit or miss with draftees in that range. But retrospectively it is pretty clear there should be a standard for any player that gets traded in. If they are too cheap (eg steak knives) then that's probably a sign you might be better off just taking a punt on a speculative youngster instead - but at the same time you can't have 22 youngsters in your team and expect to grow. Think 2nd and 3rd round might be the sweet spot for us trading. Crossing fingers we get to take advantage of free agency at some point as well.

I missed the ones that were okay because we traded slightly more for them and I don’t consider them ‘cheap’ trades when we give up a second rounder as the main part of the deal.

I do see your point given what you’ve said above. I’m just pointing out that if you trade **** all you usually get a spud. As a general rule if you don’t need a second rounder to get the trade done the player probably isn’t worth it.

 

[Docker82]

Finished last year as 16th for points for. Start this year = 16th for points.

Obviously our Achilles heel and injuries aren’t helping. Some say it’s delivery but really hard to kick it to players who can’t get ahead on leads or win contests.

There’s scope for positives like Sturt plays 15+ games, Henry/Frederick/Treacey/Switta/Crowden actually show something but based off round 1 that’s going to take a while.


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Looked better after half time when we went shorter and used Fyfe to take pressure off Taberner.

It could actually be the making of us now we can’t just have Lobb (out) and Taberner (double teamed) clucking contested marks all game. Having second and third in the league for contested marks last year says it all - an over reliance on them.

 

[wakojako]

I agree with a lot of your comments in general. But not this. You’d swear Hogan was a 3 time All Australian full forward who had starred in multiple finals victories for his former club the way people are crying over him.
The Jesse Hogan I saw at freo was a bang average player at this level. With a stinky attitude and constantly injured. Not to mention the off field sh*t. He should never have been brought near the club in the first place. Getting rid of him was the right move. I’ll eat my hat if Jesse Hogan ever plays a finals match and in fact I’d say the likeliest outcome is that he is moved on from GWS within a couple of years.
The prized draft picks we handed over for him which now leave a hole in out list are what we should be pissed off about.

You are completely missing the point. We are not mourning the wasted potential because he is a spud. We are mourning the TOP 10 draft picks we gave up which would have set us up to be playing finals this year theoretically.

 

[MadMundy]

With a realistically full strength squad what do people want to see as our forward set up? I'd go:

Sturt, Lobb, Walters
Treacy, Taberner, Switkowski

Either of Henry or Schultz on the bench.

- Taberner as the main target leading out of the goal square
- Lobb at CHF leading up the wings
- Sturt and Walters as your flankers
- Switkowski as a crumbing small forward
- Treacy to take the 3rd tall

 

[Randomizor]

We need our forwards to lead and for those leads to be honoured.

How often does Tabs just stand around near the goal line waiting for someone to pump it in towards him?

Love or loathe him, Hogan at least knew how to get separation from his man and get on a lead.

Even Fyfe is just banging the ball into the forward line now.

It’s embarrassing how poor our forward 50 entries are.

 

[CapitalA]

That's bullshit, players loved Lyon .
Slackers were called out , they became the backstabbers.

But then he picks favourites and gives rat bags chance after chance (hello Benell) at expense of team harmony and loses players to the trade table.

 

[Bring back Drum]

We need our forwards to lead and for those leads to be honoured.

How often does Tabs just stand around near the goal line waiting for someone to pump it in towards him?

Love or loathe him, Hogan at least knew how to get separation from his man and get on a lead.

Even Fyfe is just banging the ball into the forward line now.

It’s embarrassing how poor our forward 50 entries are.

There’s no doubt Tabs is suited to playing up the ground & working back with his work ethic. Treacy looks like your traditional lead up forward & looks a fantastic kick.
I feel with Treacy leading towards 50 & Lobb, Darcy or Meek using the space closer to goals created by Treacy to make a contest, we should have a good mix.
We need to have enough dangerous talls up forward to stop the likes of Lever, McGovan etc from flying third man up in our forward 50 entries because the bloke they’re playing on is no threat.

 

[Midnite65]

Because the club has been burnt so much in the past on forwards like Kersten, Anthony, Gumbleton, McCarthy, Hogan, etc it seems that they are happy year after year thinking if they just improve the connection from mid to forward we can put ruckmen up there or play our best player and midfielder there and somehow cobble together an adequate forward line. That is why we constantly pick midfielders or backmen or small forwards and wait until the rookie pick to pick our only other KPF besides Tabs. We could have thrown offers at Miochek, Wright, Finlayson, McDonlad (the freebie that Carlton got for nothing). Hell even if we got Mason Cox

46

Mason Cox

Age

33

Ht

211cm

Wt

110kg

Pos.

F/R

Career

Season

Last 5

D

8.7

2star

K

5.2

2star

HB

3.5

3star

M

4.0

4star

T

1.6

4star

G

1.2

4star

D

6.0

1star

K

3.0

1star

HB

3.0

2star

M

2.3

2star

T

0.3

1star

G

1.0

4star

D

9.0

3star

K

5.4

2star

HB

3.6

3star

M

2.6

3star

T

2.4

4star

G

1.8

5star

and then we bombed it on his head all game at least he wouldnt let the backmen take 15 plus intercept marks against the likes of Schultz, Henry, Switta and all the tall timber we have down there.

 

[theGav56]

With a realistically full strength squad what do people want to see as our forward set up? I'd go:

Sturt, Lobb, Walters
Treacy, Taberner, Switkowski

Either of Henry or Schultz on the bench.

- Taberner as the main target leading out of the goal square
- Lobb at CHF leading up the wings
- Sturt and Walters as your flankers
- Switkowski as a crumbing small forward
- Treacy to take the 3rd tall

I think that is a very workable forward line. It can definitely win games. I lack confidence in how it would function, but that can come.

 

[dropbear101]

i like this forward line
switta tabs crowden
walters treacy sturt

- bench lobb freddy who are far more multipositional.
- whenever i played half back or forward the most important thing i believe was knowing where to go. knowing where to run. knowing where to peel off and help out a teammate and crumb a pack. it is no coincidence that so many norm smiths are won by back flankers. they can be offensive maestros and defensive pests. in the modern game a half backer when pushed up high can be the kick inside fifty as well asplay as an interceptor (when they want), help defender, rebounder. meaning half forwards must play defense. i think crowden and switta can do that. as a half forward you are also often responsible for creating space for other forwards. you are also responsible for kicking inside fifty and crumbing packs. i think crowden and switta can perform those tasks. the flanks are the hardest position to maximize imo. they have the potential to improve everything around them and as grand finals have proven be the dominant player on the ground. (ayres, hodge, aker, rioli, stevie j,chapman, andrew mcloed, pickett)
- never played full forward, however I have played full back before. i always felt i could cover players unless they were more physically gifted than me . At afl level the players that fit the more physically gifted mold are treacy and sturt. sturt would be more of a nightmare imo however because treacy is big and quick i also think he fits the mold. as a fullback i didn't fear the gorillas because you could get to ball drop first. own the ball drop and you can negate the gorillas. thus as a full back i would not fear someone like tabs or lobb. (amateur level versions)
- whenever i played small forward and back pocket you got your wage by being clever/smart. walters fits that bill.
- whenever i played centre half forward or centre half back your role it seemed was always be the marking option/negation all around the ground. you must be able to win the one on one. tabs fits the bill.

only problem of those 8 only 2 are out on the field.

 

[tonygeeks]

The sacking of Ross is not the beginning of the bad board management. I think Ross was being undermined and hamstrung since those board members arrived. How come we were focussed on playing attractive football, how come we didn't tag at all? It just became obvious to me when they sacked Ross that there was no method to their decision making and that their highest priority is not to win a flag.

Don't you think its at all possible that Ross was screaming out for us to select a forward with an early pick? In a podcast last year he described the opposing goals of the senior coach and the list manager and under 18 recruiting manager. He wants mature players, they want draft picks.

Ross wasn't being supported like he was when he arrived at the club and he wasn't given the freedom to coach like he should have been. He mentioned that board members would call to complain how he acted in pressers, and he remarked don't they have anything better to do?

I think that it can be traced earlier, to the time that Harris left. Let's not forget that Rosich resigned because he did not agree with getting rid of Ross. That doesn't happen overnight, I think the board has been fractured for a long time.

Also, I've said this a bunch of times I'm not of the opinion that Ross was perfect, I would have been fine having him sacked and replaced with someone better, I accept that he was a flawed individual but he was committed. I trust that he did do everything he could to get us to win and I think he was a very good coach. I think the list has always been a much bigger problem and I don't think it's worth replacing a very good coach unless that's the last piece in the puzzle for a premiership. Let's not forget we beat 3 top 4 teams away from home in Ross's last year.

Here's a controversial one, how come our club can afford a women's team, but West Coast can't? Where does that money come from? We know we make less than the Eagles every year, so where does it come from? The answer is the football department. Maybe how many injuries you get to key players is directly linked to how much football department spending you do? Is that an unrealistic thing to say?

Worst post I’ve ever seen on here

Congratulations


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[purplerunsdeep2]

It all starts from the back - slow movement and even slower decision making

Unfortunately you can’t have hamling and Pearce in the same team - they are both slow and average kicks at best, so they are always looking for the short pass for someone else to set it up.

Pearces injury is a blessing for Hamling IMO

Also... The play on rule has also almost made our ‘new brand’ of kick - mark footy redundant... if proven true over a number of games - that’s the worrying issue


And... draft **** key forwards next year with every pick! Except the gun NGA kid we’ve got coming through assuming he slides to +20...

And lastly - wtf is Hale our forward coach - is this accurate? - he should have been moved on with the rest


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[MadMundy]

It all starts from the back - slow movement and even slower decision making

Unfortunately you can’t have hamling and Pearce in the same team - they are both slow and average kicks at best, so they are always looking for the short pass for someone else to set it up.

Pearces injury is a blessing for Hamling IMO

Also... The play on rule has also almost made our ‘new brand’ of kick - mark footy redundant... if proven true over a number of games - that’s the worrying issue


And... draft **** key forwards next year with every pick! Except the gun NGA kid we’ve got coming through assuming he slides to +20...

And lastly - wtf is Hale our forward coach - is this accurate? - he should have been moved on with the rest


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Hale has only been kept around because he's highly regarded by everyone at the club, don't know why when it seems our forward line hasn't improved since he's been here.

 

[salim malik]

If we weren't obsessed with picking mids and half back flankers it could have been Darling, Allen and Naughton .
The old adage was a good tall will always beat a good small and good talls are few and far between. Good mids are a dime a dozen.

 

[freodog]

If we weren't obsessed with picking mids and half back flankers it could have been Darling, Allen and Naughton .
The old adage was a good tall will always beat a good small and good talls are few and far between. Good mids are a dime a dozen.

Amen!

 

[Johnny Dalmas]

So we could have easily not spent the money and done it when they did. It's all an argument in semantics anyway.

But why? What is the evidence that having an AFLW team since 2017 has made one scrap of difference to any other footy program run by the club?

If anything, having a women's team may have brought in new fans, which translates to more members, which translates to more revenue.

 

[theGav56]

If we weren't obsessed with picking mids and half back flankers it could have been Darling, Allen and Naughton .
The old adage was a good tall will always beat a good small and good talls are few and far between. Good mids are a dime a dozen.

Any tall at all at this stage. In the end Taberner, Lobb and Treacy are collectively a pretty low baseline for tall forwards.

 

[Johnny Dalmas]

I think the best way to improve our forward line -- given where we are right now -- is to improve transition from half-back.

We need to use the fat side of the ground more and increase the speed of ball movement. We need to keep some forwards deeper. That will give the guys we have the best chance of being isolated and reduce the risk of intercept marks.

But the best way to build a forward line from scratch? Draft, draft, draft. Good players are never cheaper than their draft price.

 

[ignoramus]

Following on from this last post, I reckon the best way to build a forward line is on the run: with lightening fast, quality kicking/handballing midfielders, who can cause turnovers across the middle of the ground and help the forwards catch defences out of position.

 

[Dockeroo]

Following on from this last post, I reckon the best way to build a forward line is on the run: with lightening fast, quality kicking/handballing midfielders, who can cause turnovers across the middle of the ground and help the forwards catch defences out of position.

Exactly. 100%.
It starts in the half back line. Which is why players like Conca, Hughes, Watson and anyone else who is not willing to move the game on as fast as possible are a negative when it comes to creating scoring opportunities.

 

[theGav56]

Exactly. 100%.
It starts in the half back line. Which is why players like Conca, Hughes, Watson and anyone else who is not willing to move the game on as fast as possible are a negative when it comes to creating scoring opportunities.

We have those types coming through. Logue, Young, Walker, Thomas, Chapman. Cox could if he was encouraged to mark but it looks like he has been instructed to punch. Of the older players, Pearce, Ryan and Wilson have always taken the game on. But the game plan unveiled last season didn’t really resemble that strategy and looked much more controlled short kick to a player in the clear, often sideways.

 

[deputy]

Exactly. 100%.
It starts in the half back line. Which is why players like Conca, Hughes, Watson and anyone else who is not willing to move the game on as fast as possible are a negative when it comes to creating scoring opportunities.

Yeah these players are painful to watch with ball in their hands, no idea what to do eyes darting every direction then kick backwards.We need line breakers and more Hayden Youngs types .Logue Wilson and Chapman will be improvements when they come in.