How to fix the broken Pies...

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Thatsmyname

Plausible deniability
Apr 16, 2019
4,344
3,067
AFL Club
Collingwood
Other Teams
No 3peat (Ninth)mond Minnows
This is our best team (a few kids like Brown and Quaynor nothwithstanding) and what stands out for me is the Dunn injury and Cox form slump have murdered our only real option to bookend that team

Sen:
Langdon Dunn Roughead
Maynard Howe Crisp

Grundy Pendlebury Adams
Hoskin Sidebottom Beams

Mihocek Stevo Treloar
De Goey Moore Elliott

Int:
Sier Wells Phillips Scharenberg


Emer:
Aish Thomas Greenwood Mayne
 

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BringouttheGimp

Brownlow Medallist
Apr 18, 2015
14,378
15,318
AFL Club
Collingwood
Other Teams
PAOK of SALONIKA LIVERPOOL
It's like Bucks got success from wearing a Vivienne Westwood quality shirt.. got a lil complacent and that re. Reverts back to wearing Bonds sh*t and that re.. a safe generic vanilla option.. and schlaaaaack.. gets drilled by freo nth and hawthorn..

Pull out the Westwood again Bucks.. they're quality shirts that last a while.. useless in the wardrobe re..
 

Big Bryza

Norm Smith Medallist
Sep 11, 2006
8,711
8,493
MCG
AFL Club
Collingwood
We're in a huge slump, but the beauty of starting the year like we did is that we can turn it around. We're top 4 with 7 games remaining, all is not lost but things need to rectified and it starts this Friday night. A few random thoughts:

1 - We have gone from the hunter to the hunted in recent times. We've belted some good sides this season in Richmond. Brisbane and Port Adelaide. The latter 2 we played some exhilarating footy, it was fast, free flowing and aggressive at both ball and opponent. Some slight tweaks in game style and personnel and we can get back to what we do best.

2 - Our midfield is lacking some bulls and those 2 blokes are Greenwood and Adams. Greenwood must take the oppositions best mid and Adams plays inside the contest with his attack on the pill. Get blokes like Sidey and Treloar on the outside where they're best suited.

3 - Thomas, Phillips, Cox, Mayne to name a few are guys who had career best seasons in 2018. The art of coaching is going to be to get these lads back to their best footy over the coming weeks. Mayne and Phillips need to be far more accountable on the wings as we've had players such as Hill and Smith carve us up in recent weeks. Josh Thomas needs to get back to the basics of working hard up the ground then burning his opponent on the way back. He needs to produce 2nd, 3rd and 4th efforts and get front and square of as many marking contests as possible. Coxy needs to get some swagger back in his game. One of his best efforts last year was a 5 possession performance against the Crows. All he did was compete bloody hard in the air and bring the smalls in to the game. From their his confidence will build and he'll start to get back to his contested marking best. A little help from the umps wouldn't go astray, as he gets tunneled under the ball a lot but in saying that me must get stronger at the contest.

4 - Howe and Langdon are vital cogs to our back half and ball movement. They allow Moore to play a more attacking role and in turn help each other to intercept and rebound off half back. It's no surprise to see Darcy a little more quiet in recent times without these 2. It'll be interesting to see what happens with Schaz when all the defenders are available.

5 - Going interstate this week might be the best thing for the boys. Get away together and release the shackles. West Coast are a formidable opponent but I'll back our group to show some real ticker this Friday night. It's a season defining game so bring it on.
 

Adz

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 17, 2003
16,073
8,111
Melbourne
AFL Club
Collingwood
The midfield needs to stop backing itself at centre clearances and start defending their midfielders. WC are going to waltz it out of their with ease u less we change our approach.
 

BringouttheGimp

Brownlow Medallist
Apr 18, 2015
14,378
15,318
AFL Club
Collingwood
Other Teams
PAOK of SALONIKA LIVERPOOL
How we'll beat the Eagles.. the Gimp way..

Buckley to release the shackles.. play like donks for the first 5 minutes.. set the up the same way as we have been for the last 8 weeks.. play that sh*t side to side safe sh*t.. itll ease the Eagles mindset.. they'll know what to expect.. then bammmmmm.. play that loose aggressive style of play we saw last yr.. and catch em off guard.. they'll be in 6s and 7s and that re..

The result..

4-5 goal win for the Pies.
 

swoop42

Premiership Player
Sep 29, 2014
3,791
6,986
The 22
AFL Club
Collingwood
Gerard Healy summed it up best the other week when he simply asked of Bucks why?

Why did he feel the need to make alterations to our game plan over summer and why did he do it with the talent available on our list?

If he did it with the desire to reduce our turnover numbers then by all reports it hasn't worked.

Some people have suggested that we have tried to copy the Eagles and what we are attempting is not all to different to the system employed by other top 4 contenders in Geelong and G.W.S.

Perhaps there is some truth to this and after 4 straight losses to the eventual Premier perhaps some merit in exploring another system of play was warranted.

It could also be argued though that by looking to mimic an opponent you might well only end up becoming a poor imitation and in doing so you only limit the differences and strengths that lead you to your successes in the first place.

Further to that I would suggest that after suffering a narrow grand final defeat in a season wracked by injury not making any system changes would have been justified by the coaching panel and simply looking to improve on your own brand instead of impersonating another should have been the first option taken.

With the additions of Beams, Roughead and hopeful return to fitness of Moore and Elliott it wasn't unreasonable to assume at the start of the season that not much else besides some luck with injuries was required to see us be right in the hunt for the flag.

While I suspect Healy was referring to our overall list quality in the second question he posed of Buckley there is one major difference between us and the other 3 teams named above and why IMO this more measured style of ball movement seemingly doesn't suit our list as well.

Unlike us they all possess A grade key forward options.

I think this is important because not only are they proven players over long periods and consistent goal scorers they provide the luxury of knowing that if the opposition is doing a good job of limiting how you want to move the ball you still a reliable avenue to goal by just bombing it long to the goal face such is their quality.

It's a get out of gaol free card we don't have to play.

While Mihocek proved a revelation last season and has been solid this year he isn't your No.1 key forward.

Cox could be if he can replicate his performance in last years Preliminary final often but displays even approaching that kind of level have been few and far between for him.

They aren't rare for the likes of Kennedy, Darling, Cameron and Hawkins though and it's a massive advantage they have over us.

Right now I don't recognise this side in comparison to the one I admired last season or even our very best of earlier this year.

Worryingly I do see some of the same weaknesses that plagued us in the years prior to last.

Most notably the disconnect between our defence and forward line because we lack any cohesion with our method of transition.

At times we've started to look more vulnerable out the back to our old foe the slingshot also.

Honestly at times last week it was like our players had totally forgotten our system and were making it up as they go. We were back to the bad old days when it was hard to decipher how we exactly wanted to play and what our brand of football was.

Obviously personnel missing or opposition tactics can be playing a part in our current malaise but it's the confidence issue that is more intriguing to me.

I see it as a bit of a chicken or the egg argument in that are we playing like we are because our confidence levels are low or have our confidence levels become low because of how we are being asked to play.

I can't help but feel it's more of the latter and that the players are either being caught in between a desire to play on instinct and adhere to team instructions and it's leading to a jumbled mess of two competing mindsets or those players who went so close to living the premiership dream last year are losing faith in or not enjoying the method they've been asked to play in 2019 more and more as the season has progressed.

While our current predicament certainly doesn't fall squarely on the shoulders of Buckley as there are circumstances at play outside his control he as coach does have one important element that he absolutely can influence and that's the structures and instructions he wants our players to adhere to.

Buckley deserved his coach of the year title last season but he'll deserve it even more now if he can swallow a little pride, take the advice of every caretaker coach in history by freeing the players up and discarding any alterations made to our 2018 game plan.

Will it be the panacea for all our problems overnight?

No but it's the critical starting point that everything else can be built back up around during the remainder of the home and away season.
 

Carringbush2010

Norm Smith Medallist
Jun 6, 2016
9,036
5,361
Perth
AFL Club
Collingwood
Other Teams
Pines Football Club
Gerard Healy summed it up best the other week when he simply asked of Bucks why?

Why did he feel the need to make alterations to our game plan over summer and why did he do it with the talent available on our list?

If he did it with the desire to reduce our turnover numbers then by all reports it hasn't worked.

Some people have suggested that we have tried to copy the Eagles and what we are attempting is not all to different to the system employed by other top 4 contenders in Geelong and G.W.S.

Perhaps there is some truth to this and after 4 straight losses to the eventual Premier perhaps some merit in exploring another system of play was warranted.

It could also be argued though that by looking to mimic an opponent you might well only end up becoming a poor imitation and in doing so you only limit the differences and strengths that lead you to your successes in the first place.

Further to that I would suggest that after suffering a narrow grand final defeat in a season wracked by injury not making any system changes would have been justified by the coaching panel and simply looking to improve on your own brand instead of impersonating another should have been the first option taken.

With the additions of Beams, Roughead and hopeful return to fitness of Moore and Elliott it wasn't unreasonable to assume at the start of the season that not much else besides some luck with injuries was required to see us be right in the hunt for the flag.

While I suspect Healy was referring to our overall list quality in the second question he posed of Buckley there is one major difference between us and the other 3 teams named above and why IMO this more measured style of ball movement seemingly doesn't suit our list as well.

Unlike us they all possess A grade key forward options.

I think this is important because not only are they proven players over long periods and consistent goal scorers they provide the luxury of knowing that if the opposition is doing a good job of limiting how you want to move the ball you still a reliable avenue to goal by just bombing it long to the goal face such is their quality.

It's a get out of gaol free card we don't have to play.

While Mihocek proved a revelation last season and has been solid this year he isn't your No.1 key forward.

Cox could be if he can replicate his performance in last years Preliminary final often but displays even approaching that kind of level have been few and far between for him.

They aren't rare for the likes of Kennedy, Darling, Cameron and Hawkins though and it's a massive advantage they have over us.

Right now I don't recognise this side in comparison to the one I admired last season or even our very best of earlier this year.

Worryingly I do see some of the same weaknesses that plagued us in the years prior to last.

Most notably the disconnect between our defence and forward line because we lack any cohesion with our method of transition.

At times we've started to look more vulnerable out the back to our old foe the slingshot also.

Honestly at times last week it was like our players had totally forgotten our system and were making it up as they go. We were back to the bad old days when it was hard to decipher how we exactly wanted to play and what our brand of football was.

Obviously personnel missing or opposition tactics can be playing a part in our current malaise but it's the confidence issue that is more intriguing to me.

I see it as a bit of a chicken or the egg argument in that are we playing like we are because our confidence levels are low or have our confidence levels become low because of how we are being asked to play.

I can't help but feel it's more of the latter and that the players are either being caught in between a desire to play on instinct and adhere to team instructions and it's leading to a jumbled mess of two competing mindsets or those players who went so close to living the premiership dream last year are losing faith in or not enjoying the method they've been asked to play in 2019 more and more as the season has progressed.

While our current predicament certainly doesn't fall squarely on the shoulders of Buckley as there are circumstances at play outside his control he as coach does have one important element that he absolutely can influence and that's the structures and instructions he wants our players to adhere to.

Buckley deserved his coach of the year title last season but he'll deserve it even more now if he can swallow a little pride, take the advice of every caretaker coach in history by freeing the players up and discarding any alterations made to our 2018 game plan.

Will it be the panacea for all our problems overnight?

No but it's the critical starting point that everything else can be built back up around during the remainder of the home and away season.
Great post!

For mine there are two sides of the argument among us here on BF............. those that think it's personnel based and those that think it's all between the ears - clearly you think the latter.

Now before anyone gets on the "that's a bit simplistic CB" bandwagon I do and have continually acknowledged that our injuries DO have an impact, however this list that is largely unchanged from last year is known for it's game style that is less reliant on personnel than most probably on par with the Richmond system.

As you've pointed out 2018 has completely disappeared - our one wood, and now we're barely staying afloat.

I will point out and disagree with one of your points in as far as the forward set up of the other 3 teams compared to ours. It is evident that those 3 use high efficiency to transition the footy into an awaiting star forward that is generally difficult to defeat even when outnumbered (rare given the team transition efficiency).

What our one wood forward structure was the unpredictability and versatility of our forwards, JDG was able to gain that extra metre needed to outmark on the lead up when our transition allowed it.

If we didn't have that transition Cox and Checkers would be making a contest for the likes of WHE and Stevo and even JDG himself or they'd would just mark it themselves if one of the other 3 didn't mark it themselves. The system when it's going doesn't need monster forwards to outmark and goal from 50 - a weakness in itself because those teams are predictable in how they're going to play.

All of the above is on the back of our ability over the whole park to win the footy and set up defensively, even when we don't have the ball - last year at least.

This is why it's perplexing that we've attempted to move away from what was so successful and worries me why our FD even gave it a thought.:$
 

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76woodenspooners

Premium Platinum
Jun 4, 2011
16,785
24,363
Sydney
AFL Club
Collingwood
How we'll beat the Eagles.. the Gimp way..

Buckley to release the shackles.. play like donks for the first 5 minutes.. set the up the same way as we have been for the last 8 weeks.. play that s**t side to side safe s**t.. itll ease the Eagles mindset.. they'll know what to expect.. then bammmmmm.. play that loose aggressive style of play we saw last yr.. and catch em off guard.. they'll be in 6s and 7s and that re..

The result..

4-5 goal win for the Pies.
Like for “6’s and 7’s” reference. You’re a renaissance man Gimpy!
 

Darkyprotector

Premiership Player
Apr 10, 2017
3,929
1,842
AFL Club
Collingwood
Afl 360

Damning vision and spot on analysis

Dropping Thomas is at least a start
I've been watching him and great to see that now others have been informed at just how poor his efforts have been

The turnover that led to the dogs last goal was simply another example of what he's been dishing up

Seems to be forgotten we were lucky the game didn't go longer , the coach was livid!

But we kept picking him , which simply amazed me

Let's hope he goes back and performs
Let's hope his replacement shines
 

Darkyprotector

Premiership Player
Apr 10, 2017
3,929
1,842
AFL Club
Collingwood
Like to see cox deep at all times and extend the ground
Chaos balls and quick long entries may help with swoop era running back
Like Maynard to play up the ground and a improved display from sidey
 

Somebody

Premiership Player
Apr 12, 2007
3,508
933
Somewhere
AFL Club
Collingwood
The Maggies are currently broken.

Our lack of depth in the forward line and midfield has been exposed. Also we have a bunch of players that keep getting games who are really under-performing.
But one area we actually have an abundance of good players is in the backline. In fact with Scharenberg back, Howe due back soon, Quaynor given his chance etc, we actually have a surplus of good backs. I think we can fix the team by re-purposing some of this talent to other positions.

A thought experiment:

Howe can play forward. He played as a forward for Melbourne before coming to Collingwood.
Aish is a strong mark, he previously played as a mid for Brisbane, maybe he'd go ok on a forward Flank pushing into the midfield, or starting in the midfield?
Quaynor is fast and likes to run and has a good long kick... play him on a wing?
Goldsack has been a reliable defender for years. Bring him back.
In addition we have Noble to debut. So he can play wing or forward flank?
We still have Langdon to come back too, but he might be a while.

To my eyes players like Thomas, Cox, Brown, Daicos, Varco are all either under-performing or not AFL standard. So they can go out to make way.
DEf worth giving the Sack a try-out - even though form not that great, may rise to the occasion through sheer character and adrenalin.
Cox unless some sports psychologist can pull off some miracle of untapping some aggression, looks like needs to go back into development focusing on that particular trait. And I don't suppose psychologicsts are trained to encourage aggression, everything is so sookily PC these days, you know with "hate crimes" and other zionist nonsense.
 

Somebody

Premiership Player
Apr 12, 2007
3,508
933
Somewhere
AFL Club
Collingwood
YouBeauty said:


Thomas is an inside mid and has capabilities to turn into an elite one if he had more time in the middle. High half forward is not his go.
Yes, but he's poor defensively and arguably the worst 2-way runner in the team.
I was thinking that about Thomas jsut today. Not working as a forward, and our cupboard is so bare at teh moment that we need to try to repurpose (as another poster said yesterday). maybe the problem is Thomas just doesn't have the tank for midfield or even defence, but we def need someone at the coalface coz Sier not working right now either. Worth a try and see if he can play through pain - the pain of gut running when your body thinks it can't do it anymore, some of us know that feeling.

edit: with Tay back but prob still underdone, Thomas could be relief for Tay and they alternate playing forward or back flanks, or if Tay is not effective as forward you could do something more complex like some kind of 3-way rotation with someone like Maynard, who might benefit from taking on a mroe varied and challenging role and his grunt in midfield could also be a success.
 

PhiloBeddoe

Premium Gold
Mar 5, 2008
5,244
5,439
Ma's house.
AFL Club
Collingwood
Other Teams
None

60 Yards Out

All Australian
Dec 7, 2016
982
2,238
AFL Club
Collingwood
I reckon this guy would know how to get us firing

"Thanks for coming in to talk about this vacancy Mr ... err... Malthouse. What was it that attracted you to this position?"
"Well, it's the sort of thing I've done before and I feel I could make some sort of contribution in the role."
"Right... what is it that you think you could contribute?"
"Oh, experience for a start. There's nothing like a few miles on the clock to show you how things are done."
"I see. What is it that you're currently doing?"
"Just bits and pieces, really. Consulting. Advising. I'd much rather get my teeth into something solid."
"Good, good... I see your last permanent role was quite a while ago now... why was it that you left that position?
"Look, I don't want to say anything negative about a previous employer, but the bastards completely shafted me and I didn't feel it was appropriate to hang around and put up with it."
"Really... what a shame. Well, bad things can happen to good people, as we all know. How did you deal with that?"
"I decided to say nothing... maintain a dignified silence. Most of the time, anyway. It's not easy. My wife's feelings were hurt. Bastards."
"Let's move on, then. I'd like you to give me three examples of situations where you felt your contribution to a project led to a really positive outcome."
"Umm, let me see. There was that time in 2010 when my boys won the premiership. I came up with this concept of the Forward Press -- worked a treat. Well, actually, one of my support staff might have suggested it first. Forgotten his name. Doesn't matter, he was a complete bastard anyway. But I got the credit, and rightly so."
"Any others?"
"Too many, really. Can't think of any that really stand out."
"On the other hand... any failures that stand out for you -- things that didn't go so well, but where you learned something that has stood you in good stead afterwards?"
"Oh, yes, I suppose... that other club... the one with the blue jumper. What are they called again?"
"We won't worry about the details... what was it that you learned?"
"I'll get back to you about that. What a boring question."
"OK Mr Malthouse... we're coming to the end of our time. Tell me in a few words why you think you would be the right person to fill this pivotal role in our organisation."
"It's obvious. I'm surprised you need to ask. How long have you been in this job anyway?"
"I see. Too long, probably. Haha. Once again... thanks for putting your hand up for this role. Anything you'd like to add that we haven't raised so far in this interview?"
"No... that covers it, I think. I'll be expecting your call."
"Right, yes. We'll be in touch for sure, eventually."
 
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