How to rebuild: stay competitive

[Tulip]

Have loved watching North this season. Everyone had them down as bottom four after two seasons of cleaning out the list, but they've proven that you can win games of footy and avoid 10 goal + losses by doing one thing - staying competitive.

Not in the sense of winning quarters and other metrics, which was an approach favoured by the rebuild coaches of 10 years back, but actually learning to win and getting stuck into your opponents.

When Neale Daniher took over a bottom four Demons side in the late 90s, he stated in his first interview that there was no reason they couldn't be top four the next season. And it happened.

Too often, coaches are happy to wear horrible losses because they tick other arbitrary boxes that will eventually make a team come good. This is an approach favoured by Bolton, and increasingly by Worsfold and Richardson as their seasons have unravelled.

Brad Scott wants to win games above all else, and that's a big part of why a side with a handful of mature stars and a gaggle of draft picks - many of whom weren't high in the order - are competing for the finals.

 

[The Nostradamus]

the good teams with good culture dont need to bottom out like geelong, hawks etc.

im glad to say we are one of those clubs too albeit to lesser success

 

[Thewlis Dish]

There are 22 spots in any team, so you don't need to fill the majority with green kids for a rebuild. You only need to have 7-8 come on among more senior players and you're already halfway there, and they develop in a winning culture.

The teams that don't bottom out (Geelong, Adelaide, Sydney, Hawthorn etc) have so many kids who seem to come on quickly, and it's not a coincidence.

 

[Orange Agent]

So why were they bad last year?

 

[PAFC_1870]

I'd hold judgement on North till the seasons end, but so far very admirable as you generally expect from them.

Generally the length of the season sorts itself out imo. They've obviously dropped off in the past.

 

[Fuzzy Wuzzy Bear]

So why were they bad last year?

They weren't nearly as bad as their record suggested, lost heaps of games by under a goal.

 

[shintemaster]

They weren't nearly as bad as their record suggested, lost heaps of games by under a goal.

Pretty much, 7-8 games lost by under a goal or two and a reasonably tough injury run - including a couple of very critical players like Jacobs basically never in it. Makes a huge difference.

 

[harper2bastinac]

So why were they bad last year?

The same reason gws have been bad lately. Take out 6-8 of your best 22 through injuries and any team will struggle. It happened to us 2 years in a row.

 

[Orange Agent]

The same reason gws have been bad lately. Take out 6-8 of your best 22 through injuries and any team will struggle. It happened to us 2 years in a row.

But the OP is calling it a rebuild. Nobody added to the list this year has made any difference. Luck is the biggest factor it would seem.

 

[Dez!]

You're going massively early on this, we haven't even reached the halfway point of the season yet.

 

[Benno_900]

But the OP is calling it a rebuild. Nobody added to the list this year has made any difference. Luck is the biggest factor it would seem.

What luck?

 

[Sprout]

Surely winnng premierships is the measure of success for rebuilds. Name the sides in the modern era that haven’t bottomed out and gone on to win a premiership. There aren’t many.

That isn’t taking anything away from North’s season to date. Although I never expected them to be the basketcase this year that so many others did. Their youngsters are better than they were given credit.

 

[Orange Agent]

A bigger factor was the decision to cut NDS, Boomer, Petrie and co. Was heavily criticised at the time and whoever made the call is starting to feel justified. And the continual improvement of Brown certainly helps.

 

[HTPunter]

But the OP is calling it a rebuild. Nobody added to the list this year has made any difference. Luck is the biggest factor it would seem.

We've seen the departure of Harvey, Petrie, Dal Santo, Firrito, Wells, Hansen, Thomas, Swallow, Gibson as well as deadwood in Mullett, McKenzie, Tippett, Black, Nahas, Ray in the past 2 seasons.

That's 10 of the 22 who played in our last final (2016 loss to Adelaide). McKenzie managed 14 games in 2016, Nahas 8 as well.

While yes we have added Waite, Thompson, Jacobs and Wright to that side who were missing with injury, it's still a pretty significant step.

Call it what you want, I'm not going to argue over semantics of what a 'rebuild' is, but losing 10 blokes over 30 in 2 years seems like a rebuild to me.

 

[Ron The Bear]

Should probably be 10-5 after their next block of games. A little tougher in the run to finals... we won't know where North "is at" until season's end.

 

[Rich01]

I like what North are doing. So should North supprters. But they shouldn’t be sooking about their lack of top draft picks because they want to continually be competitive.

 

[Substance]

They're not really rebuilding. Their list is bottom 2 for age/experience, yet each week they are fielding one of the oldest and most experienced 22. For example they had more than 600 games experience over GWS today.

 

[btdg]

They're not really rebuilding. Their list is bottom 2 for age/experience, yet each week they are fielding one of the oldest and most experienced 22. For example they had more than 600 games experience over GWS today.

This. Most importantly, their best 22 at the moment are predominantly in their primes, with a lit of blokes aged 23-26. Key players like Brown, Cunnington, etc right at their peak, and some others who have had injuries like Tarrant and Higgins in career vest form. Very few injuries disrupting that and a bit of luck too in other areas.

I'm not surprised by them doing so well in those circumstances. Don't forget, 2 years ago they started 9-0 and were gearing up for a premiership. They fell away in the second half of 2016, had a bad run last year, and are getting back to where they were. To me, North are exactly who we thought they were.

The knock on North, for mine, is that despite all the super performances so far they are currently 5-4 and on the fringe of the 8. Cop a few bad injuries and they won't make the finals, and could also fall away like they did 2 years ago. How do they get better from here though? A club who are right in their primes, only seem to be a fringe top 8 team in a weak year? And if they don't improve fast, then senior blokes retire, they get replaced by mid tier young blokes, and the cycle of middling performances continues

So much seems to be predicated on their bringing in a big name free agent or trade, and maybe competing helps them do that. But they're competing with a bunch of other clubs who have historically beaten them to the big names.

 

[B4Bear]

But the OP is calling it a rebuild. Nobody added to the list this year has made any difference. Luck is the biggest factor it would seem.

Jacobs may as well be a new player for us. Billy Hartung is certainly a ew recruit. Jed Anderson is actually not injured.

Plus an extra 12 monthsinto the kids like EVW and Sympkin.

Those 5 nobodies have all hade a huge impact.

 

[Power Raid]

having a dark horse in the8 and knocking off flag contenders is great for the game

well done roos!

 

[Kcrack]

They're not really rebuilding. Their list is bottom 2 for age/experience, yet each week they are fielding one of the oldest and most experienced 22. For example they had more than 600 games experience over GWS today.

Might have something to do with the massive list of GWS injuries.

 

[Dirty_11]

So why were they bad last year?

A little spoken about fact was how badly we were hit with injury last year. One of the reasons why most NM people didn't buy into the 'worst list in the league' media crap that was floating around all pre season.

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[JackFlash]

Geelong have made a huge mistake hanging around like a bad smell, they should've bottomed out and re- built two years ago, now they are way behind the eight ball. Larry , Moe & Curly are all cooked!

 

[Topkent]

This. Most importantly, their best 22 at the moment are predominantly in their primes, with a lit of blokes aged 23-26. Key players like Brown, Cunnington, etc right at their peak, and some others who have had injuries like Tarrant and Higgins in career vest form. Very few injuries disrupting that and a bit of luck too in other areas.

I'm not surprised by them doing so well in those circumstances. Don't forget, 2 years ago they started 9-0 and were gearing up for a premiership. They fell away in the second half of 2016, had a bad run last year, and are getting back to where they were. To me, North are exactly who we thought they were.

The knock on North, for mine, is that despite all the super performances so far they are currently 5-4 and on the fringe of the 8. Cop a few bad injuries and they won't make the finals, and could also fall away like they did 2 years ago. How do they get better from here though? A club who are right in their primes, only seem to be a fringe top 8 team in a weak year? And if they don't improve fast, then senior blokes retire, they get replaced by mid tier young blokes, and the cycle of middling performances continues

So much seems to be predicated on their bringing in a big name free agent or trade, and maybe competing helps them do that. But they're competing with a bunch of other clubs who have historically beaten them to the big names.

Your forgetting one thing, instead of trading out senior players like Carlton and St Kilda have done (Melbourne in the past) they've kept them and put in kids around them.

It's a much better system than trying to build a list from scratch. Only reason Melbourne have become good is because we added Vince Lewis Frost Tyson Hibberd Melksham Lumumba Garlett Cross to our young list and got them into winning situations with more pressure for spots.

I reckon dropping down the ladder is fine but there's no need for clubs to spend the best part of a decade out of finals like sides have been doing lately.

Even the bulldogs who rebuilt kept Boyd/Murphy/Wood/Morris/Picken in important areas and added Biggs Crameri Suckling meaning the kids had senior bodies to support them.

 

[wowlace]

Don't announce that you're rebuilding, for starters.