How well can we do in this rebuild mode

[Turly]

Never go to happen with consistency.
It'd be like teaching a pro tour big serving tennis player with below average groundstrokes and little ability to pass a guy at the net, a backhand that can regularly go whizzing past an opponent, and do it over a summer.

It's not that Langers can't kick. It's that he can't kick at the speed of game of the highest level where you rely on 10,000 hours of honed mechanics that stand up when there is no time to adjust to anything.
He's got below average ability by foot, barely adequate ability by hand, and shining through it all the fiercest of spirit.
Only ever be an honest battler on the footy ground.

Tend to disagree. Think if he can recapture his 2014 form he can be far more than an honest battler.

 

[Turly]

According to Champion Data, Birchall is already elite.

http://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/cha...s/news-story/6d845da1f98651040b6dd2cf08fb8787

Rich, Zorko, Brodie Smith and Shane Edwards elite?

 

[JordyLuke]

I like the idea but he's only 6'1". So in the pocket but I reckon we have better players in the pocket. I'm not sure he makes the forward line better.

Pardon the sacrilege. Just thinking out loud.

Not sacrilege, I agree with that. Even removing Roughy from the picture, Hawks forward stocks are fairly well placed. Rioli, Poppy, Bruest, Gunston, Sicily, O'Brien, Burton, Stewart, Schoey, Vickery, etc.

 

[Thaihawk]

Transition year... plus premiership.

I always suspected you excelled on your ground work, Agent. I suspect the Hawks will excell here too, especially at stoppages. Have you detected any change in Clarko's game plan yet, or is it too early?
P.s. Keep up the good work.

 

[Thaihawk]

Bumped into big Ty up in Cairns last weekend. Amazingly honest and open guy. I was on a footy trip and he was more than happy to have a chat with the boys and answer any questions. Fair to say he was rapt to leave the Tiges but disappointed he wouldn't be playing with Sammy. Told he will be spending a lot more time on the ball which is what he wants. 40% ruck I believe he said. He looked super lean and was looking to head into pre-season super fit to impress his new team mates. You could sense his enthusiasm at a new start so I for one am excited about his arrival for 2017.

I reckon he will surprise everybody, and will be greatly appreciated by Gunners and Sicily. Provided we gat a fullyear from O'Meara and Burton, I don't expect us to lose ground. There are a few players who were automatic selections in 2016 who will feel others snapping at there heels next season.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Rich, Zorko, Brodie Smith and Shane Edwards elite?

Zorko would be an absolute start if he played in a team that wasn't utterly woeful year in and year out. The others I can't really argue with.

 

[sven_inc]

Play Hodge across half back with the odd centre bounce attendance.

Give him the Matty Boyd/Heath Shaw role. Use his skills and leadership to set up from defence.

 

[Turly]

Zorko would be an absolute start if he played in a team that wasn't utterly woeful year in and year out. The others I can't really argue with.

Elite though?

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Elite though?

According to Champion Data, apparently so. You'd have to quiz them on their methodology. Being that we have Poppy and Cyril, Zorko has never held much interest to me as a target acquisition - if we had crap small forwards though he'd be at the top of the list.

 

[Davo23]

Play Hodge across half back with the odd centre bounce attendance.

Give him the Matty Boyd/Heath Shaw role. Use his skills and leadership to set up from defence.

Like Hodge has done his entire career?

Plus kicking goals in Grand Finals, I suppose.

 

[sven_inc]

Like Hodge has done his entire career?

Plus kicking goals in Grand Finals, I suppose.

He's been more midfield than defence since 2008 though hasn't he. I'm talking about calling him a defender who pinch hits in the middle, not someone who goes back when needed.

 

[Davo23]

He's been more midfield than defence since 2008 though hasn't he. I'm talking about calling him a defender who pinch hits in the middle, not someone who goes back when needed.

Yes, The great man may spend a lot more time in defence next year.

In the past, Hodgey has always just chosen where to go, whenever he wants.

 

[Turly]

According to Champion Data, apparently so. You'd have to quiz them on their methodology. Being that we have Poppy and Cyril, Zorko has never held much interest to me as a target acquisition - if we had crap small forwards though he'd be at the top of the list.

Agreed. I do actually love him as a player.

He's played as well as he could given the circumstances of the Brisbane list.

The elite factor is hard to judge. Some consider elite top 10 in the comp. Others consider top 50 players elite.

 

[Collins-Langford-Ayres]

Why we call this "rebuilding".? I think this is clearly "RELOADING". Don't worry we will be right up there this year.

 

[Hawk Dork]

Fine tuning for the next tilt at a 4gasm

 

[threesixpio]

I actually am quite positive about next year Sam and Lewis will be big losses but I felt both dropped off towards the end of this season (Lewis more so than Sam IMO) Midfielders are more easily replaceable and I think Tom and Jom are qulaity inclusions.

I think our biggest problem this year was the lack of roughy, the player who brings the ball to ground in the forward line and provides a second ruck option. Hopefully TV can provide a patch in this department.

I think Burton is one of the most exciting prospects I've seen in a long time watching the Hawks, as is a fit Jom.

Maybe it's good starting without Sammy and Lewis for our re-jig. Amazing servants of the club but there is no doubt that our last 6 or 7 game plans were based on having them in our midfield.

And they were so damn good it is difficult to avoid relying upon them.

It's like a required electric shock that we need (not sure how ECT is relevant to trading Hawthorn midfielders but there you go...)

Edit: Maybe because it appears crazy trading them?

 

[Hawk_francais]

Do we get enough out of Birchall? Is he an elite player?

I'll trade you being 'elite' for being a champion. That's what Birchall is. His consistency and experience are worth their weight in gold (and brown).

 

[crazywildhorse]

I'm probably a deluded fan, but if O'meara goes and a couple of young players step up, which is very possible (Howe, Burton, Lovell, Langford, Litherland, Hartung...), there is every chance the window will remain open. The KPD issue is the only significant problem I see, yet we were not way off the mark. Can Brand step up? Can we pick up a mature strattonesque KPD in the draft? Mitch Brown?

GWS look likely, but apart from them, I don't see any team that is in a significantly better position to us.

 

[MistyAvalon]

I think it's super important for the young kids (who I hope get a real run) to play finals next year. Think they need to feel like they are a new group/team with real potential and ability, and something between 5-8 on the ladder should make true believers going forward.

Play finals and win the granny..now wouldn't that annoy people

 

[Hawkboy62]

I'm not sure who our forward line coach is but I think our 2016 forward strategy of " kick it high and shallow to a contest" didn't play to our strengths. Tinkering needed there as even Ty is not a contested ball monster.

Also our field kicking was not as good as previous years. Our backs were missing 30m kicks sideways with no opponents nearby. Back to basics.

Team selection will be very interesting this year. I hope that we play the youth at every opportunity. They are the future of the club, and need continuous game time to establish themselves. In a way I'm sorry we could not have traded out a quality forward for fair value, to enable us to blood another youngster.

 

[Gralin]

I'm not sure who our forward line coach is but I think our 2016 forward strategy of " kick it high and shallow to a contest" didn't play to our strengths. Tinkering needed there as even Ty is not a contested ball monster.

Also our field kicking was not as good as previous years. Our backs were missing 30m kicks sideways with no opponents nearby. Back to basics.

Team selection will be very interesting this year. I hope that we play the youth at every opportunity. They are the future of the club, and need continuous game time to establish themselves. In a way I'm sorry we could not have traded out a quality forward for fair value, to enable us to blood another youngster.

Pretty sure Ratts was forward line coach this year

 

[threesixpio]

I'm probably a deluded fan, but if O'meara goes and a couple of young players step up, which is very possible (Howe, Burton, Lovell, Langford, Litherland, Hartung...), there is every chance the window will remain open. The KPD issue is the only significant problem I see, yet we were not way off the mark. Can Brand step up? Can we pick up a mature strattonesque KPD in the draft? Mitch Brown?

GWS look likely, but apart from them, I don't see any team that is in a significantly better position to us.

The club must have a bit of faith in some of our younger players. No decent picks this year or next and still some older players on their way out. If I had the time or inclination I would do an age profile of the list.

Yeah - I mainly have concerns about pacey half back types and key forwards personally. I think Frawls, Heatherly and Brand could do alright down back for a while.

edit: and you ain't deluded because then I am too...

 

[Collins-Langford-Ayres]

Play Hodge across half back with the odd centre bounce attendance.

Give him the Matty Boyd/Heath Shaw role. Use his skills and leadership to set up from defence.

I don't think he can do the Heater role but utility that pinch hits over the place, yes...

14 games to 300 let's play him as Freo did Pav this year.

 

[OzJohnnie]

I was prompted by my efforts to waste time (which are impressive lately) to consider the rebuild and this question: when did it start?

We have been talking about how the GWS and Dogs, in particular, showing us as being over the hill in terms of player capability and game plan this last season. What if we were only half as smart on these forums as we think we are? (Likely chance)

I found myself looking at the site afltables.com and seeing the list of average player ages. Hawthorn goes like this:

Year HW
2016 25.4
2015 26.3
2014 25.6
2012 25.6
2013 25.6
2011 25.0
2010 24.3
2009 23.1
2008 24.0
2007 23.8

You see that we have had a steady progression in age over the previous seven years, with a major drop last year. A drop that we haven't seen since 2009 post the '08 GF victory when a few oldies were traded or retired. And then you can see the team aging every year, reflecting the aging core. Then the team holds stead in the mid 25's as the core ages and younger talent in brought in around it. Until it bubbled over the top in 2015, despite winning the Premiership, and the core started to transition out.

So, I'm saying our rebuild started last year, obviously, with the retiring of Lake and Hale, and the trading of Suckers.

This year Hill snuck away from us, but the others I'm pretty sure were due to retire. Maybe next year, but out before our next cup. Along with the other champions unless we snag a lucky one before our time.

It's tough to predict what our list age will be this year, but my rough calculation is that it will drop to about 25 even. A couple more retirements next year (plus a year older on our new core of JOM, TOM, GUN, FRAW, STRAT, BRU, CYR) and I think our list will drop to the mid 24's when it starts creeping up again and we have a two or three year premiership window.

(as a pop quiz, when was the last time before '15 and '08 that the Hawks saw a one-year drop in average age? Answer: after the '04 mega draft. Interesting and exciting times ahead.)

 

[Beachy]

Excited to see how clarko sets up with 2 key marking forwards and then the option of playing small ball forward line to mix it up. Vickery and shoey could make life very difficult for defenders. Backs are coming through and look promising with brand and heatherly the newer kids.

Our mids are being re generated. To
Pick 2 young players staters to set it all up the structure then continuing to get games
Into
Jor, Lovell etc


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