Vic How would you rate Daniel Andrews' performance as Victorian Premier? - Part 4

[Chief]

This thread is Continued in Part 5:

Vic - How would you rate Daniel Andrews' performance as Victorian Premier? - Part 5

Continued From Part 4: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/how-would-you-rate-daniel-andrews-performance-as-victorian-premier-part-4.1257360/

www.bigfooty.com

 

[adogsfan5]

Haha, that's some good revisionist history. The Ruby Princess debacle lead to outbreaks all over Australia including a nursing home in NW Tassie, Vic and Qld. There wasn't any contact tracing in place.

I think there were 38 deaths at least if I'm reading the report correctly. It says there were 900 cases amongst passengers and 28 deaths "associated with passengers" but then adds there were another 138 cases and 10 deaths in Tasmania from a related outbreak. I'm not sure the report includes the downstream infections and deaths in those returned states.

https://www.dpc.nsw.gov.au/assets/dpc-nsw-gov-au/publications/The-Special-Commission-of-Inquiry-into-the-Ruby-Princess-Listing-1628/Report-of-the-Special-Commission-of-Inquiry-into-the-Ruby-Princess.pdf

See epilogue, page 265. (i just searched for the word "deaths")

It was allowing the people off and creating havoc across the country, particularly in elderly groups, which was the true failing of the NSW state Govt.

Nothing in Victoria has come close to this level of incompetence.

Out of curiosity when did “contact tracing” start in the country?

 

[Sttew]

Nothing in Victoria has come close to this level of incompetence.

LOL. I can't believe you would say that, but being anonymous what does it matter?

You don't think 800+ deaths + economic calamity + the mental health issues experienced in Victoria was worse than 38 deaths + fallout of the Ruby Princess? The country wasn't in hard lockdown for 112 days like Victoria.

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

A lame stunt from Credlin? Just like the Judicial Inquiry. So you were happy with the findings of the Judicial Inquiry? An inquiry where government ministers and bureaucrats spent something like $12 Million on legal representation where they told former judge Coates they couldn't remember anything? What goes around comes around...

And cheap shots? Asking for the truth?? Yeah that's below the belt

No, I am not happy with the inquiry.

But did Credlin do any damage to Andrews? No she did not. So yes, at the end of the day it was a cheap stunt. You can't really call it anything else when a conservative commentator shows up at a press conference, makes their way in without having any right to be there and hijacks it for political gain.

Credlin should at least have the guts to stand for something and not use a known propaganda outlet such as Sky as the vehicle for her muckraking.

 

[Stan_Darsh72]

No, I am not happy with the inquiry.

But did Credlin do any damage to Andrews? No she did not. So yes, at the end of the day it was a cheap stunt. You can't really call it anything else when a conservative commentator shows up at a press conference, makes their way in without having any right to be there and hijacks it for political gain.

Credlin should at least have the guts to stand for something and not use a known propaganda outlet such as Sky as the vehicle for her muckraking.

She deep down knows that she is just a drunk inner city wine mum who got sacked from her party because she was incompetent the moment Abbott got into power.

Its easy to sling s**t but she would wither if she went anywhere near the hotseat.

 

[Saint]

To be fair, this level of shamelessness is starting to become impressive.

 

[Saint]

LOL. I can't believe you would say that, but being anonymous what does it matter?

You don't think 800+ deaths + economic calamity + the mental health issues experienced in Victoria was worse than 38 deaths + fallout of the Ruby Princess? The country wasn't in hard lockdown for 112 days like Victoria.

You're mistaking the action with the consequence.

In MRP terms, I'd say
Vic was Careless and the Impact: Severe
NSW was Intentional and the Impact: High

The people who let the Ruby Princess in shouldn't have let it in, they gave conflicting advice to passengers, ignored warnings and reporting and were ignorant of their duties.
The mistake in Victoria in HQ is the same mistake still being made today across the country with very modest improvements. Ironically, the SA HQ system didn't adopt the recommendations the commission made for modest improvements which led to the latest outbreak in Vic.

Double irony that because we were already on precautions from the SA HQ outbreak, that the other outbreak which followed soon after (the Delta one) was better controlled because people were already locked down. So we've been lucky. I hope NSW is as lucky.

I'd prefer luck was taken much further out of the equation. I'm a gambler and these are bad odds. Fix HQ with purpose-built facilities which should have started 12 months ago.

 

[Saint]

She deep down knows that she is just a drunk inner city wine mum who got sacked from her party because she was incompetent the moment Abbott got into power.

Its easy to sling sh*t but she would wither if she went anywhere near the hotseat.

Helps that her husband is the National Liberal Party Leader. It's why she was untouchable in the PMO.

I think you're right, she's a bit like Costello in that she thinks she's a wheeler and dealer and not willing to take the next step. Might work out better for her.

 

[andrewmillman]

You're mistaking the action with the consequence.

In MRP terms, I'd say
Vic was Careless and the Impact: Severe
NSW was Intentional and the Impact: High

The people who let the Ruby Princess in shouldn't have let it in, they gave conflicting advice to passengers, ignored warnings and reporting and were ignorant of their duties.
The mistake in Victoria in HQ is the same mistake still being made today across the country with very modest improvements. Ironically, the SA HQ system didn't adopt the recommendations the commission made for modest improvements which led to the latest outbreak in Vic.

Double irony that because we were already on precautions from the SA HQ outbreak, that the other outbreak which followed soon after (the Delta one) was better controlled because people were already locked down. So we've been lucky. I hope NSW is as lucky.

I'd prefer luck was taken much further out of the equation. I'm a gambler and these are bad odds. Fix HQ with purpose-built facilities which should have started 12 months ago.

Didn't Walker SC find that ruby princess was essentially just a "big mistake" (ie unintentional) and not a process failing, hence he recommended no one be sacked?

 

[swingdog]

Helps that her husband is the National Liberal Party Leader. It's why she was untouchable in the PMO.

I think you're right, she's a bit like Costello in that she thinks she's a wheeler and dealer and not willing to take the next step. Might work out better for her.

Should start calling her Tip.

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

Helps that her husband is the National Liberal Party Leader. It's why she was untouchable in the PMO.

I think you're right, she's a bit like Costello in that she thinks she's a wheeler and dealer and not willing to take the next step. Might work out better for her.

Yep, s**t or get off the pot.

Credlin lost all credibility the moment she landed on Murdoch's payroll.

She's a bitter, nasty, middle-aged alcoholic with an axe to grind. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

Didn't Walker SC find that ruby princess was essentially just a "big mistake" (ie unintentional) and not a process failing, hence he recommended no one be sacked?

They intentionally let them off the boat with test results pending.

But because it didn't lead to mass deaths then they have been able to conveniently get a free pass.

 

[Senor M]

Out of curiosity when did “contact tracing” start in the country?

Over 100 years ago during the Spanish Flu pandemic (if not earlier)? Or do you mean related to COVID?

I can only speak from the states I know but Victoria already had approximately 20-30 contact tracers before the pandemic started who were largely responsible for tracing measles and STD infections. But they were quickly transitioned to COVID late in February 2020 when cases were arriving from overseas.

This article provides a pretty simple explainer of how contact tracer was upscaled early in the COVID pandemic.

How contact tracing is closing in on COVID-19

Who are contact tracers – and how big a role are they playing in Australia's coronavirus response?

www.smh.com.au

 

[Saint]

Didn't Walker SC find that ruby princess was essentially just a "big mistake" (ie unintentional) and not a process failing, hence he recommended no one be sacked?

Only in political circles would a governance failing like the extracts below not include holding anyone responsible. You can't find any similar finding from the Victorian commission because nobody failed so badly by not doing things they knew (or should have known) that they were supposed to do.

And the reason they did this was because the people who would have had to go under the bus knew the political reasons for the inexplicable and unjustifiable decision.


2.7 NSW Health should have ensured that cruise ships were aware of the change to the definition of a “suspect case” for COVID-19 made on 10 March. This would have resulted in the identification of such cases on the Ruby Princess. 101 persons fell within the suspect case definition by 18 March, and 120 by the time the ship docked. NSW Health should also have ensured that such persons were isolated in cabins. These were serious mistakes by NSW Health.7

2.8 The failure to ensure that swabs were collected by an onboard health assessment team in accordance with the requirements of the 9 March Enhanced Procedure was a serious failure by NSW Health.8

2.9 The delay in obtaining test results for the swabs taken from the Ruby Princess on the morning of 19 March is inexcusable. Those swabs should have been tested immediately.9

2.10 In light of all the information the Expert Panel had, the decision to assess the risk as “low risk” – meaning, in effect, “do nothing” – is as inexplicable as it is unjustifiable. It was a serious mistake.10


The Victorian Health Minister went under the bus for far, far less than this.

 

[Saint]

Yep, sh*t or get off the pot.

Credlin lost all credibility the moment she landed on Murdoch's payroll.

She's a bitter, nasty, middle-aged alcoholic with an axe to grind. Nothing more, nothing less.

You've just described not only the LNP MPs nation-wide, but basically their policy platform too.

 

[pazza]

The Covid issue in Sydney is actually the same as Melbourne has faced.

Complacency with unhealthy arrogance. The lack of mandatory QR codes as well.

 

[andrewmillman]

Only in political circles would a governance failing like the extracts below not include holding anyone responsible. You can't find any similar finding from the Victorian commission because nobody failed so badly by not doing things they knew (or should have known) that they were supposed to do.

And the reason they did this was because the people who would have had to go under the bus knew the political reasons for the inexplicable and unjustifiable decision.


2.7 NSW Health should have ensured that cruise ships were aware of the change to the definition of a “suspect case” for COVID-19 made on 10 March. This would have resulted in the identification of such cases on the Ruby Princess. 101 persons fell within the suspect case definition by 18 March, and 120 by the time the ship docked. NSW Health should also have ensured that such persons were isolated in cabins. These were serious mistakes by NSW Health.7

2.8 The failure to ensure that swabs were collected by an onboard health assessment team in accordance with the requirements of the 9 March Enhanced Procedure was a serious failure by NSW Health.8

2.9 The delay in obtaining test results for the swabs taken from the Ruby Princess on the morning of 19 March is inexcusable. Those swabs should have been tested immediately.9

2.10 In light of all the information the Expert Panel had, the decision to assess the risk as “low risk” – meaning, in effect, “do nothing” – is as inexplicable as it is unjustifiable. It was a serious mistake.10


The Victorian Health Minister went under the bus for far, far less than this.

You do understand that the HQ wave led to 30x more cases, 30x more deaths and months of statewide lockdowns - ie 'far, far more' in any reasonable person's book.

I cant believe that a year later we still have people like you making an equivalence between the scale of the two.
Even broadly pro andrews people like Crypt and co admit it was far bigger - do you not comprehend the numbers or you are just too partisan to admit it was worse than ruby princess?


Also it wasnt just jenny mikakos who went was it- eccles, peake, mrs captain cook, etc etc. And they indeed certainly all went because they all "failed badly".

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

You do understand that the HQ wave led to 30x more cases, 30x more deaths and months of statewide lockdowns - ie 'far, far more' in any reasonable person's book.

I cant believe that a year later we still have people like you making an equivalence between the scale of the two.
Even broadly pro andrews people like Crypt and co admit it was far bigger - do you not comprehend the numbers or you are just too partisan to admit it was worse than ruby princess?


Also it wasnt just jenny who went was it- eccles, peake, mrs captain cook, etc etc.

The numbers notwithstanding though, what NSW did was inexcusable. Yet they have been excused.

 

[Sttew]

The people who let the Ruby Princess in shouldn't have let it in, they gave conflicting advice to passengers, ignored warnings and reporting and were ignorant of their duties.

Agree, but this was very early on and there was no cover up. Lessons were learnt

The mistake in Victoria in HQ is the same mistake still being made today across the country with very modest improvements. Ironically, the SA HQ system didn't adopt the recommendations the commission made for modest improvements which led to the latest outbreak in Vic.

The mistake in HQ was that the Victorian Govt refused assistance from ADF and went it alone, giving a multi million dollar contract to a security company not even on the government panel. Nowhere else in Australia did such a calamity occur . And then the government thought it would be clever and deny ADF support was ever offered

I'd prefer luck was taken much further out of the equation. I'm a gambler and these are bad odds. Fix HQ with purpose-built facilities which should have started 12 months ago.

Agreed here. But with the dysfunctional way this country exists we are never going to be on the same page.

 

[Stan_Darsh72]

Helps that her husband is the National Liberal Party Leader. It's why she was untouchable in the PMO.

I think you're right, she's a bit like Costello in that she thinks she's a wheeler and dealer and not willing to take the next step. Might work out better for her.

She does at least have enough brains to know that leaving a cosy sky gig to be a state premier would be a pay reduction.

Why take the responblity when you can snipe on the sidelines with Uncle Rupert paying you

 

[Pakenhamsaint]

I reckon if you were to do a straw poll on who they would least like to see be the new leader of the Victorian Liberals in the run up to next year's state election, the answer won't be Michael O'Brien or Matthew Guy, it would more likely be Peta Credlin. The brains-trust at the Victorian Labor HQ fear Credlin more than the other alternatives (O'Brien & Guy), considering a) Credlin knows how to run a election campaign, was credited for the Coaltion's 2013 federal election win; and b) the way she took Daniel Andrews apart in one press conference during the long second wave Victorian COVID-19 lockdown last year.

All Labor have to do point out she was Abbott's right hand.

The Victorian Public gave the Liberals a huge opportunity in 2014 and as soon as they got into office they reneged on their biggest promise about teachers. They spent the next three years twiddling their thumbs until they replaced Baillieu one year out from the election. They then brought in PSO's in safe Labor seats where locals were being terrorized by gangs and thugs. The ALP called the PSO's stormtroopers and vowed they would get rid of them. That is until they saw the reaction from the people in their 'safe seats'. They quickly changed their tune and adopted the policy. The LNP started the project of getting rid of crossings, starting in Springvale. Once again Labor moaned and whined about it, but then adopted it.

Since the election drubbing in the 2018 election, the LNP has become a group of useless, lazy and self-important waste of space.
Peta Credlin is a smart lady, and if she takes on the leadership of this group of lazy & unmotivated collection of waste, then she deserves the derision and crushing defeat she will receive at the hands of Labor.

The PSOs were at train stations only though and they're everywhere not just safe Labor seats. Every metro station has a "Baillieu box"

 

[Saint]

The mistake in HQ was that the Victorian Govt refused assistance from ADF and went it alone, giving a multi million dollar contract to a security company not even on the government panel. Nowhere else in Australia did such a calamity occur . And then the government thought it would be clever and deny ADF support was ever offered

Nobody will ever know what the impact of using ADF/police instead of private security would have been. The ADF have the same powers as private security (i.e. none).

There's no direct link of hiring private security to being the direct or even indirect cause of the outbreak like there is with Ruby Princess. To me, it was always a red-herring.

Also, HQ still doesn't work even with the ADF. There's been a series of lessons learnt from every outbreak. Though I'm not convinced the NSW Govt has learnt, I think they should be going a little harder and I think the Vic Govt should have gone a little softer, but it's Monday quarterback stuff because the odds we're dealing with are very high and humans are awful at judging such things.

 

[tandino]

No, I am not happy with the inquiry.

But did Credlin do any damage to Andrews? No she did not. So yes, at the end of the day it was a cheap stunt. You can't really call it anything else when a conservative commentator shows up at a press conference, makes their way in without having any right to be there and hijacks it for political gain.

She shamed the inquiry into seeking out the phone records of senior staff (why they didn't ask for them of their own accord is curious) and it led to the resignation of the secretary of DPC.

It was hardly nothing.

 

[Senor M]

The mistake in HQ was that the Victorian Govt refused assistance from ADF and went it alone, giving a multi million dollar contract to a security company not even on the government panel. Nowhere else in Australia did such a calamity occur . And then the government thought it would be clever and deny ADF support was ever offered

What roles would the ADF have done?

The ADF themselves have confirmed that they wouldn't undertake security type work or perform floor monitoring roles if assisted and only would've been of assistance to transport returned travellers from planes to hotels.

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

She shamed the inquiry into seeking out the phone records of senior staff (why they didn't ask for them of their own accord is curious) and it led to the resignation of the secretary of DPC.

It was hardly nothing.

Really, you're giving Credlin the credit for that?

Jeez, you are easily pleased. Ultimately it is likely this would have happened without Credlin's meddling. Also, the DPC secretary is hardly the fish that Credlin was looking to catch.

(and yes, they should have asked for them)

 

[Sttew]

Nobody will ever know what the impact of using ADF/police instead of private security would have been. The ADF have the same powers as private security (i.e. none).

We can compare Sydney with Melbourne. Nothing happened in Sydney with HQ like what happened in Melbourne. ADF working under military rule was used in Sydney

There's no direct link of hiring private security to being the direct or even indirect cause of the outbreak like there is with Ruby Princess. To me, it was always a red-herring.

Another one of your creeping assumptions? The 2nd outbreak which led to the 800+ deaths was attributed to an outbreak at a Melbourne quarantine hotel and directly linked to the security.

From the BBC:

"So how did the virus spread? Allegations of blame have been levelled at private security firms contracted to operate the state's quarantine. Neighbouring New South Wales took a different approach - using the police force.
Victoria has faced accusations of systemic failures such as guards being improperly trained or not given enough PPE.
Mr Andrews has also described cases of illegal socialising between staff, listing examples of workers sharing a cigarette lighter or car-pooling. Local media also reported claims of sex between guards and quarantined travellers.
The government has ordered a judicial inquiry into their quarantine operation and fired the contractors."

Coronavirus: Why has Melbourne's outbreak worsened?

A surge in infections has placed Australia's relative success story at a "critical stage", experts say.

www.bbc.com