Vic How would you rate Daniel Andrews' performance as Victorian Premier? - Part 5

[Saint]

Continued From Part 4:

Vic - How would you rate Daniel Andrews' performance as Victorian Premier? - Part 4

This thread is Continued in Part 5: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/how-would-you-rate-daniel-andrews-performance-as-victorian-premier-part-5.1282789/

www.bigfooty.com

 

[dusty1234!]

I don't care what other states/counties do. I have the unfortunate fortune of living in Victoria, my only concern is Victoria, I don't care what other states do and don't do. I hate when people say but this state is doing this, this state is doing that, good on them.

This isn't an attack on you, I promise you that, it definitely seems that way.

No mate, this was regarding the new laws introduced, where it is being pointed out that NSW do the same thing. And further, it is what the state opposition have been calling for

 

[freddy mercury]

No mate, this was regarding the new laws introduced, where it is being pointed out that NSW do the same thing. And further, it is what the state opposition have been calling for

I literally don't want to know what other states do. I literally do not care, I worry about where I live.

Although I do like how NSW are opening up for everyone and getting rid of basically every restriction and showing of papers.

 

[hawkman]

******* insane that his number one priority as we exit lockdown is to rush laws through within 3 days to lock away his ability to lock us down, impose curfews etc if HE declares a pandemic - even if it’s only in his stupid little mind, that’s absolutely fine under this proposal.

They have to get them through because they won't be granted another State of Emergency extension by the upper house

 

[kaka]

noun
noun: dictator; plural noun: dictators
a ruler with total power over a country, typically one who has obtained control by force.
Similar:
autocrat
monocrat
absolute ruler
tyrant
despot
oppressor
absolutist
totalitarian
authoritarian
supremo
Big Brother
autarch
a person who behaves in an autocratic way.
(in ancient Rome) a chief magistrate with absolute power, appointed in an emergency.

You can slot Dan right in whereever you like and he wouldn't be out of place.

If he was a dictator under those definitions we wouldn't even have such laws being discussed or going to parliament. We would have no opposition party, no elections and ws would have the unchallenged ability to use government assets (I.e police) for personal use.

What we have are pandemic rules which he used for a once in a 100 year event. The term dictator is ridiculous. Maybe say you think a democratically elected leader of a political party used his legislative powers and we should lessen those powers in the future. That's a better argument than posting comparisons which make you look silly.

 

[Frank Bunn]

You not being able to eat at a cafe when there is a global pandemic isnt a dictatorship. You lose any point you are trying to make when you write such rubbish.

I think you missed the part where not being vaccinated for Covid-19 (or not wishing to disclose your personal health details) deprives you of your ability to earn a living. That means not being able to pay your mortgage or rent, put food on the table for your family, pay your electricity bill etc.

 

[Frank Bunn]

You think that would actually happen? 2 years or 90k would be the maximum reserved for the most egregious breaches of public heath orders. No one would ever face that for minor breaches.

Here's the proposed legislation and relevant sections.

165BN Failure to comply with pandemic order, direction or other requirement​

​

(1) A person commits an offence if the person refuses or fails to comply with a pandemic order, or with a direction given to the person, or a requirement made of the person, in the exercise of a pandemic management power.​

​

Penalty: In the case of a natural person, 120 penalty units;​

One penalty unit is currently $181.74. So 120 penalty units is $21,808. That's the penalty for the basic offence for a failure to comply.

165BO Aggravated offence of failure to comply with pandemic order, direction or other requirement​

(1) A person commits an offence if—​

(a) the person fails to comply with a pandemic order, or with a direction given to the person or a requirement made of the person in the exercise of a​

pandemic management power; and​

(b) the person knows or ought to know that the failure to comply is likely to cause a serious risk to the health of another individual.​

Penalty: In the case of a natural person, 500 penalty units or imprisonment for 2 years;​

500 penalty units = $90,870. Or 2 years jail.

Are these penalties for the minor and aggravated offences proportionate to that of other offences?

 

[Frank Bunn]

I haven't backtracked. My disclosure changed after the Bunnings vax popup weekend, which you are aware of.

It seems to mess with the anti-vaxxers heads if I tell them my medical history is none of their business.

Seems weird that you are caught up in that.

Your medical history is none of anyone else's business. Except your employer, or potential employers. Or cafe staff.

 

[freddy mercury]

Your medical history is none of anyone else's business. Except your employer, or potential employers. Or cafe staff.

Papers please

 

[Crankyhawk]

Be interesting to see how many here oppose voter ID in the US but support vaccination passports here.

If voter id had no financial barriers and was automated (linked to birth and activated when 18) doubt there’d be an issue. Or if voter id done similar to our AEC (no costs) again no issue.

 

[Crankyhawk]

You think that would actually happen? 2 years or 90k would be the maximum reserved for the most egregious breaches of public heath orders. No one would ever face that for minor breaches.

There is a low degree of trust right now so a fear that big fines could be widespread follows

 

[BruceFromBalnarring]

If voter id had no financial barriers and was automated (linked to birth and activated when 18) doubt there’d be an issue. Or if voter id done similar to our AEC (no costs) again no issue.

What financial barriers does it have?

 

[BruceFromBalnarring]

Morrison is trying to bring in voter ID laws here Bruce.

Voters will be asked to show identification to vote under Morrison government proposal

Labor spokesperson says party will fiercely oppose any ‘anti-democratic thought bubbles’ in the bill

www.theguardian.com

Good.

 

[BruceFromBalnarring]

I'm sure Bruce is ropeable about that

Nup. It’s a good thing.

 

[nut]

Can someone please list all the corruption occurring in Victoria? considering all I hear is Victoria is the most corrupt state in the history of Australia.

Ill start …

1. Branch stacking …..

 

[Pessimistic]

Do you see that as a bad thing?

let those advocating the change justify it not theother way around

 

[freddy mercury]

Can someone please list all the corruption occurring in Victoria? considering all I hear is Victoria is the most corrupt state in the history of Australia.

Ill start …

1. Branch stacking …..

I cook foods

 

[Nikita Blue]

God I wish we had a De Santis. Instead we have a Guy.

How many covid deaths in Florida Bruce?

 

[Evolved1]

let those advocating the change justify it not theother way around

Who needs justification in this day and age. Just call it 'health advice' and be done with it.

It's fascinating to see lefties get worked up about having to show ID to vote when they've backed virtually every imposition into our human rights from the Andrews government over the past 2 years.

It's such a trivial matter anyway. Who cares?

 

[Gough]

Has anyone asked the question how the f*** Crown are keeping their license or is this still a Murdoch based attack on "Dictator Dan"?

 

[Hornberger]

There is a low degree of trust right now so a fear that big fines could be widespread follows

A low degree of trust as the result of a concerted campaign of misinformation by the media designed to generate fear, preying on people's ignorance of the proposed legislation and the law in general.

The "fear" that big fines could be widespread follows has no basis in fact or reality. The 90,000 fine or 2 year imprisonment can only be imposed for the most serious conduct, where the offending either caused actual harm or had a high likelihood of causing substantial harm to others.


(1) A person commits an offence if—

(a) the person fails to comply with a pandemic order, or with a direction given to the person or a requirement made of the person in the exercise of a pandemic management power; and

(b) the person knows or ought to know that the failure to comply is likely to cause a serious risk to the health of another individual.

...

serious risk to the health of another individual means a material risk that substantial injury or prejudice to the health of another individual has occurred or may occur having regard to—

(a) the location, immediacy and seriousness of the threat to the health of another individual;
(b) the nature, scale and effects of the harm, illness or injury that may develop;
(c) the availability and effectiveness of any precaution, safeguard, treatment or other measure to eliminate or reduce the risk to the health of another individual.

 

[freddy mercury]

Has anyone asked the question how the f*** Crown are keeping their license or is this still a Murdoch based attack on "Dictator Dan"?

I don't care who runs the casino as long as I can play the big wheel at 2am after 65 beers, I'm happy

 

[Sttew]

No mate, this was regarding the new laws introduced, where it is being pointed out that NSW do the same thing. And further, it is what the state opposition have been calling for

I love the way Danfans gobble up Dan’s spin about the new pandemic laws as though it couldn’t possibly be inaccurate.

Opposition did not call for exactly what Dan has proposed. They agree in principle with the government controlling the decision making but not what is going to be tabled.

“Questions have also been raised about the oversight of the broad public health powers, with academics warning of fewer safeguards than in other jurisdictions, including NSW and New Zealand, where similar legislation exists.”

 

[Pessimistic]

A low degree of trust as the result of a concerted campaign of misinformation by the media designed to generate fear, preying on people's ignorance of the proposed legislation and the law in general.

The "fear" that big fines could be widespread follows has no basis in fact or reality. The 90,000 fine or 2 year imprisonment can only be imposed for the most serious conduct, where the offending either caused actual harm or had a high likelihood of causing substantial harm to others.


(1) A person commits an offence if—

(a) the person fails to comply with a pandemic order, or with a direction given to the person or a requirement made of the person in the exercise of a pandemic management power; and

(b) the person knows or ought to know that the failure to comply is likely to cause a serious risk to the health of another individual.

...

serious risk to the health of another individual means a material risk that substantial injury or prejudice to the health of another individual has occurred or may occur having regard to—

(a) the location, immediacy and seriousness of the threat to the health of another individual;
(b) the nature, scale and effects of the harm, illness or injury that may develop;
(c) the availability and effectiveness of any precaution, safeguard, treatment or other measure to eliminate or reduce the risk to the health of another individual.

Which party has to prove this? Cos if it’s like many fines slapped on in the name of ‘public health’ the poor unfortunate seems to be having to prove its not justified

In any case, countries which suffered far worse than Australia have no seen the need for such legislation. In australia it seems we have a case of the cure being worse than the disease.

 

[Sttew]

Ill start …

1. Branch stacking …..

2. Red shirts
3. UFU dispute

 

[Caj]

Pubs aren't compulsory, there's no independent commission overseeing pub entry. They don't ask everyone to show ID at pubs.

I'd suggest this relates to the increase in early/mail in voting. He's trying to make that harder for some reason.

Probably scared.

What are you talking about?

The demographics of early voters would strongly sway to the Coalition, just as postal votes do

You are seriously one of the dumbest posters on this board