Vic How would you rate Daniel Andrews' performance as Victorian Premier? - Part 6

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Saint

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Andrews was rightfully blamed because 99% of deaths in aged care facilities were genomically linked to the The Hotel Quarantine security, and we are talking about over 700 deaths. And yes, the Feds had overall responsibility for the aged care, so they too ultimately shared responsibility. But in the first instance you had to look where the Covid came from
So all the deaths in Vic in the current wave are also Perrotet's doing? This outbreak started in NSW, so by your logic, we have to look where the COVID came from: NSW. Same for Queensland.

Or does your logic not suit the argument, so you'll contradict yourself?
 

Gralin

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you can absolutely put community spread in the Vic Second wave down to failings in HQ and Health and by extension the Andrews Government

I don't think you can lay the blame at their feet for the Private Aged Care sector not being prepared for community spread, don't forget it got into Aged care in NSW prior the Vic Second wave and the Feds and the whole sector basically did nothing to stop or limit its ability to get in

We didn't have the same issues in State run aged care in Vic during the second wave, do they get any credit for that?
 

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adogsfan5

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Jumping the gun there aren't you? The NSW government is being blamed for the spread ex NSW and I'm not arguing against that. They acted way to slow and paid a huge price with Delta. I don't know about Omicron; as far as I can tell it happened and nobody can be blamed. I stand to be corrected though.

As for what happened in June/July 2020 nobody will ever convince me that the state government did not monumentally botch the HQ security. As a direct result of the HQ security stuff up we experienced the devastating 2nd wave. Remember how we poor citizens of Victoria were initially blamed by the Premier for not obeying restrictions when all the while the Premier knew the source of the spread?

Blamed for watching the sunset.
 

Saint

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Yes but with a rider. The majority if not all state run aged care is in regional Victoria. The HQ bungle happened in Melbourne and it was aged care in Melbourne that was mostly affected. I remember reading a report and there may have been a small number of cases in Aged care in regional Victoria, all privately run.
Jumping the gun there aren't you? The NSW government is being blamed for the spread ex NSW and I'm not arguing against that. They acted way to slow and paid a huge price with Delta. I don't know about Omicron; as far as I can tell it happened and nobody can be blamed. I stand to be corrected though.

As for what happened in June/July 2020 nobody will ever convince me that the state government did not monumentally botch the HQ security. As a direct result of the HQ security stuff up we experienced the devastating 2nd wave. Remember how we poor citizens of Victoria were initially blamed by the Premier for not obeying restrictions when all the while the Premier knew the source of the spread?

HQ was botched over and over again all across the country. Remember the limo driver in Sydney? Picking one of them as the only "monumental botching" of HQ when it happened over and over again.

it was a terrible system. Citizens of Vic were blamed for spreading it beyond the source. Everyone knows/knew the source of that spread was international.

The next wave was a guy who drove from Sydney. So, by your logic, that's NSW's fault.

Omicron also via Sydney, so that's NSW's fault too.

By your logic, NSW is responsible for 10x more deaths than the 2020 wave in Vic, but it doesn't suit your narrative, so "nobody can be blamed".
 

ralphmalph

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They are 2 seperate issues.

Clause 58 related to risk of planning approval being over turned on appeal. It was understandably requested by the contractor to protect its commitment and costs associed with delay. It amounted to the State agreeing to pay a pre-agreed sum for delay to project commencement. That clause would have had no impact once the agreement was terminated. There’s principally nothing strange about requesting such a clause: it was obvious objectors were going to appeal planning approval with likely delays, a prudent contractor would have insisted on it.

The side letter was also requested by the contractor presumably to protect its position in the event that government was found not to have had capacity to execute the agreement. That did not become an issue and was presumably never triggered
It was not a matter of objectors potentially appealing planning approval. The judicial review was already before the court. The previous government should not have signed the contract in those circumstances. That’s what this bit related to:

Advice to government in the lead up to signing the contract did not sufficiently assess the benefits of delaying contract signing to mitigate risks posed by the unresolved legal challenge to the project planning approval decision. Signing the contract in these circumstances was imprudent and exposed the state to significant cost and risk.

The case didn’t proceed after the government changed because the project was ditched.
 

Sttew

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HQ was botched over and over again all across the country. Remember the limo driver in Sydney? Picking one of them as the only "monumental botching" of HQ when it happened over and over again.

it was a terrible system. Citizens of Vic were blamed for spreading it beyond the source. Everyone knows/knew the source of that spread was international.

The next wave was a guy who drove from Sydney. So, by your logic, that's NSW's fault.

Omicron also via Sydney, so that's NSW's fault too.

By your logic, NSW is responsible for 10x more deaths than the 2020 wave in Vic, but it doesn't suit your narrative, so "nobody can be blamed".
duck off with "suiting your narrative" that's you putting words in my mouth. I can speak for myself if you don't mind.

With Omicron I don't think it is appropriate to "blame" anyone. No system, no matter how fool proof, was going to contain Omicron, and that has proven to be the case globally. And proof of this is the "let it rip" approach adopted by all eastern states

Delta. Yes that's on the NSW government. I have never said it wasn't.

The HQ Security stuff up in Victoria was massive in comparison to anything else experienced in Australia. We were the ONLY state in lockdown for over 100 days between July and October/November 2000. And that was 100% on the Andrews government for trying to do it alone, thinking it didn't need ADF support and that Victoria's "gold Standard" HQ was better than what anyone else could do.
 

Romeoh1

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I don't think the 2nd wave in Melbourne in July 2020 was linked to Ruby Princess, but if you want to revise history, go ahead. This has been done to death. Your dear leader felt compelled to call a Judicial Inquiry to find out "what went wrong"
You seem like a pleasant chap, and you are a Geelong supporter, but sheesh you can whinge.
I doubt anyone who lived through the last two years in Melbourne will forget the terrible mistakes the Andrews govt made. Nor do I think they will forget the decent job his govt did after the 2nd wave.
 

Sttew

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You seem like a pleasant chap, and you are a Geelong supporter, but sheesh you can whinge.
I doubt anyone who lived through the last two years in Melbourne will forget the terrible mistakes the Andrews govt made. Nor do I think they will forget the decent job his govt did after the 2nd wave.
You seemed like a decent chap too. I didn't start the discussion about the 2nd wave, I merely added to the discussion if you'd bothered to check? As I said in an earlier post this has been done to death, but when people keep trying to rewrite history....

I am content to completely drop this discussion thread because I believe everything that needs to be said has been said.
 

Romeoh1

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You seemed like a decent chap too. I didn't start the discussion about the 2nd wave, I merely added to the discussion if you'd bothered to check? As I said in an earlier post this has been done to death, but when people keep trying to rewrite history....

I am content to completely drop this discussion thread because I believe everything that needs to be said has been said.
Well, let’s agree on that Stew! Fair enough, I didn’t bother to check because I’m over it too. Go Cats.
 

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Kwality

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Andrews was rightfully blamed because 99% of deaths in aged care facilities were genomically linked to the The Hotel Quarantine security, and we are talking about over 700 deaths. And yes, the Feds had overall responsibility for the aged care, so they too ultimately shared responsibility. But in the first instance you had to look where the Covid came from

The Coroners Inquest into St Basils will shine a light on the roles of the both the Feds & the DHHS.

'
'Judge Cain said a key question that would be put to the pair was why St Basil's did not send a message to the Commonwealth Department of Health, via a specific email address set up to notify the department about COVID-19 cases.

While Ms Kos made contact with Victorian health officials, the failure to contact Commonwealth authorities meant widespread testing of residents did not begin until eight days after the first positive case was identified.

Counsel assisting the inquiry Peter Rozen, QC, wants to quiz the pair about whether they had read numerous emails from the department which set out instructions of what to do if an outbreak occurred.'
The ruby princess wasn’t it?
So give everyone a free pass from there on ... for those who simply want to blame covid on one lot & give the other mob a free pass, yeh well thought through ...
 

kaka

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i think the beauty of politics of COVID in Australia is that for each outbreak you can find a way to blame whoever you want. Really blaming both sides when they were building the plane as it was flying is a waste of time. Everyone made mistakes but both sides also did a lot of stuff well.
 

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It was not a matter of objectors potentially appealing planning approval. The judicial review was already before the court. The previous government should not have signed the contract in those circumstances. That’s what this bit related to:

Advice to government in the lead up to signing the contract did not sufficiently assess the benefits of delaying contract signing to mitigate risks posed by the unresolved legal challenge to the project planning approval decision. Signing the contract in these circumstances was imprudent and exposed the state to significant cost and risk.

The case didn’t proceed after the government changed because the project was ditched.
He is a troll
 

adogsfan5

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D77AD831-5BF0-4873-BE52-71720C8C7B21.jpeg
 

Crankyhawk

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I wonder if the same people who blamed Andrews for the failures of federally regulated privated aged care will now blame Perottet.

Because it sure seems like it's a national problem and a federal failing, one that hasn't been fixed in other states since the first/second Victorian waves, because Morrison and Colbeck were given the liberty by the media and the right to blame "Dictator Dan".

View attachment 1317599

yeah the virus is still findings its way into VIC nursing homes as well
because those who look after the patients there unavoidably act as vectors when theres so much circulating virus
and just shows how any plan to "protect the vulnerable only" was fundamentally not going to work
 

Crankyhawk

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you can absolutely put community spread in the Vic Second wave down to failings in HQ and Health and by extension the Andrews Government

I don't think you can lay the blame at their feet for the Private Aged Care sector not being prepared for community spread, don't forget it got into Aged care in NSW prior the Vic Second wave and the Feds and the whole sector basically did nothing to stop or limit its ability to get in

We didn't have the same issues in State run aged care in Vic during the second wave, do they get any credit for that?
correct me if wrong but aren't the state run aged cares attached to hospitals (subacute ones or country ones) so probably have better visitor control and better staff training
 
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