Vic How would you rate Daniel Andrews' performance as Victorian Premier? - Part 6

[tandino]

View attachment 1318024

Of course not.

 

[Gralin]

correct me if wrong but aren't the state run aged cares attached to hospitals (subacute ones or country ones) so probably have better visitor control and better staff training

Kind of my point
Less metro locations obviously helped but we know private aged care is a complete mess

 

[Crankyhawk]

View attachment 1318024

do you have a hyperlink for the read?

 

[adogsfan5]

do you have a hyperlink for the read?

effing paywall..

 

[Opine]

It was not a matter of objectors potentially appealing planning approval. The judicial review was already before the court. The previous government should not have signed the contract in those circumstances. That’s what this bit related to:

Advice to government in the lead up to signing the contract did not sufficiently assess the benefits of delaying contract signing to mitigate risks posed by the unresolved legal challenge to the project planning approval decision. Signing the contract in these circumstances was imprudent and exposed the state to significant cost and risk.

The case didn’t proceed after the government changed because the project was ditched.

I don't think that changes anything.

While the Planning Minister wouldn't have been able to influence the outcome of an appeal on foot, it's clear the partners' deemed the unresolved planning issue posed a greater risk than they initially contemplated; the opposition's political rhetoric might have contributed to that perception.

But, just because a planning appeal was in progress doesn't mean they shouldn't have agreed to go ahead. Many projects face planning objections, and not an insignificant number go to appeal. It's part of the development process. Granted, few occur while an opposition political party is in the background stirring up negativity for political points. But, despite that, the project partners and their contractors will likely have made resources available to commence. So the partners' logic in requesting/accepting cl 58 seems reasonable.

Also, keep in mind that project was an early pilot in Victoria utilising Public-Private Partnership as a project delivery method. They were seemingly committed to delivering it to the Victorian people and understandably keen to get that particular private partner on board. As I see it, DA as his ALP played a significant role in increasing risk perception.

In any case, none of the effects of cl 58 impacted the termination settlement sum. That clause would have enabled the private partner to terminate the agreement if it decided the planning outcome was unacceptable; that didn't happen. It also lifted the cap on extensions of time and related costs if needed depending on the planning appeal outcome; IINM that wasn't used.

 

[Opine]

He is the worst, and most federally divisive, premier I can recall in my lifetime as a Victorian. As the need to necessarily control and limit freedoms to help curb effects of COVID diminishes, so will his value as premier.

 

[Crankyhawk]

He is the worst, and most federally divisive, premier I can recall in my lifetime as a Victorian. As the need to necessarily control and limit freedoms to help curb effects of COVID diminishes, so will his value as premier.

Federally divisive happens when the federal only care about nsw and qld

I don’t disagree with the second part of the analysis

 

[Sttew]

effing paywall..

Reasons for refusing to release the information:

— The potential for such documents to be subject to public release may lead to the information in similar briefing packs in future being less detailed, which could deprive future decision-makers of relevant information and potentially jeopardise the effectiveness of the deliberative process, undermine the ability of a decision-maker to be satisfied of the relevant statutory criteria, and jeopardise the validity of decisions made to implement future Directions; anD

— The potential for release of the documents to result in misinterpretation of the relationship between the deliberative process and final actions taken, which may result in ill-informed debate or mislead the public

Clear as daylight!

 

[Crankyhawk]

Reasons for refusing to release the information:

— The potential for such documents to be subject to public release may lead to the information in similar briefing packs in future being less detailed, which could deprive future decision-makers of relevant information and potentially jeopardise the effectiveness of the deliberative process, undermine the ability of a decision-maker to be satisfied of the relevant statutory criteria, and jeopardise the validity of decisions made to implement future Directions; anD

— The potential for release of the documents to result in misinterpretation of the relationship between the deliberative process and final actions taken, which may result in ill-informed debate or mislead the public

Clear as daylight!

Fears of potential reluctance for transparency?
******* bullshit
This is arse covering by useless bureaucrats.
Will seriously consider vote change if liberals say they will release all the advice in the name of transparency AND commit to doing similar transparency going forward. As it is I’m likely to number all other boxes leaving major (2 parties) blank

 

[Punt rd end]

Parents pissing on in the park while their kids played is surely one of the reasons

 

[Rob R]

If true, this is an even dumber more wasteful use of money and time than the QLD/Fed govt plans to host the corrupt junket formally known as the Olympics.

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[Sttew]

If true, this is an even dumber more wasteful use of money and time than the QLD/Fed govt plans to host the corrupt junket formally known as the Olympics.

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The Commonwealth Games are so irrelevant now. So Melbourne gets to host in 2026. Who next?

Ross Stevenson on 3AW suggested Melbourne should only agree to take on 2026 - let’s face it, we’re doing the organisers a huge favour - on the basis that Melbourne becomes the permanent host

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

The Commonwealth Games are so irrelevant now. So Melbourne gets to host in 2026.

Ross Stevenson on 3AW suggested Melbourne agrees to take on 2026 - let’s face it, we’re doing the organisers a huge favour - on the basis that Melbourne becomes the permanent host

Other countries are going to just looove having to travel all the way to the place at the bottom of the arse end of the globe, every four years. Do you get the sense that Games exhaustion is creeping up? Fewer and fewer countries want to host them, due to the expense, and now with covid, funds are more urgently needed for many other things. The athletes want them, of course, and there’s entertainment value for the masses. But I feel as if there could be a better format, keeping it simpler.

 

[Sttew]

Other countries are going to just looove having to travel all the way to the place at the bottom of the arse end of the globe, every four years. Do you get the sense that Games exhaustion is creeping up? Fewer and fewer countries want to host them, due to the expense, and now with covid, funds are more urgently needed for many other things. The athletes want them, of course, and there’s entertainment value for the masses. But I feel as if there could be a better format, keeping it simpler.

Virtual games? Just like Lorne Pier to Pub did this year?

 

[Kwality]

Survived 4 decades without a flu vax.

I got a bollocking from the Hong Kong flu in the late 60s & wont go there again by choice (there was at least one day I was non compos) & wouldnt wish it on my worst enemy, the recovery period was miserable.

The hospitalisations are the real measure of Covid imho.

 

[Kwality]

I never said only worriers will get boosters.

The OP is suggesting it, just being cute about it .... you've been chosen this time. Just ignore.

 

[adogsfan5]

Reasons for refusing to release the information:

— The potential for such documents to be subject to public release may lead to the information in similar briefing packs in future being less detailed, which could deprive future decision-makers of relevant information and potentially jeopardise the effectiveness of the deliberative process, undermine the ability of a decision-maker to be satisfied of the relevant statutory criteria, and jeopardise the validity of decisions made to implement future Directions; anD

— The potential for release of the documents to result in misinterpretation of the relationship between the deliberative process and final actions taken, which may result in ill-informed debate or mislead the public

Clear as daylight!

Thanks mate. Good to know they didn’t follow any science back then. Equally good to know they can no longer BS their way out of it with the new Bill.

 

[adogsfan5]

Fears of potential reluctance for transparency?
******* bullshit
This is arse covering by useless bureaucrats.
Will seriously consider vote change if liberals say they will release all the advice in the name of transparency AND commit to doing similar transparency going forward. As it is I’m likely to number all other boxes leaving major (2 parties) blank

Well said.

 

[FIGJAM]

Parents pissing on in the park while their kids played is surely one of the reasons

I'm wagering it was the only reason.

Let's face it, we were all a bit lax on that lockdown versus most others, with the Richmond pub crawl happening at the same time, which brought out 'Angry Dad' Andrews.

I'm still waiting to hear from the science side of things, as contact tracing was still in force at the time, so surely there would have been an identifiable (say) 'Edinbugh Gardens' outbreak that was as identifiable as the 'Smile Buffalo' or 'Al-Taqwa' outbreaks. But not a single peep on that front!

Seems to me it was a decision based on "the vibe" rather than science. Like compulsory wearing masks outdoors when you can socially distance.

 

[Hornberger]

Fears of potential reluctance for transparency?
******* bullshit
This is arse covering by useless bureaucrats.
Will seriously consider vote change if liberals say they will release all the advice in the name of transparency AND commit to doing similar transparency going forward. As it is I’m likely to number all other boxes leaving major (2 parties) blank

You really don't think that there is difference in how people write in private correspondence and how people write for public consumption? The reasons they provided are sound. Cabinet-in-confidence exists for a reason. Do you know what happens when you require every part of the deliberation process be made publicly available? People stop providing the decision maker bad news, in order to give the decision maker plausible deniability. People stop giving their honest opinion in case that it reflects poorly on themselves, their department or the decision maker.

The public health rationale for closing playground has been provided. It was stop large gathering that was occurring at playgrounds that was believed to be contributing to the spread.

 

[adogsfan5]

You really don't think that there is difference in how people write in private correspondence and how people write for public consumption? The reasons they provided are sound. Cabinet-in-confidence exists for a reason. Do you know what happens when you require every part of the deliberation process be made publicly available? People stop providing the decision maker bad news, in order to give the decision maker plausible deniability. People stop giving their honest opinion in case that it reflects poorly on themselves, their department or the decision maker.

The public health rationale for closing playground has been provided. It was stop large gathering that was occurring at playgrounds that was believed to be contributing to the spread.

Does that reason fly now with the new bill in place?

 

[ralphmalph]

I don't think that changes anything.

While the Planning Minister wouldn't have been able to influence the outcome of an appeal on foot, it's clear the partners' deemed the unresolved planning issue posed a greater risk than they initially contemplated; the opposition's political rhetoric might have contributed to that perception.

But, just because a planning appeal was in progress doesn't mean they shouldn't have agreed to go ahead. …

Once more:

Advice to government in the lead up to signing the contract did not sufficiently assess the benefits of delaying contract signing to mitigate risks posed by the unresolved legal challenge to the project planning approval decision. Signing the contract in these circumstances was imprudent and exposed the state to significant cost and risk.

 

[Sttew]

The public health rationale for closing playground has been provided. It was stop large gathering that was occurring at playgrounds that was believed to be contributing to the spread.

The only fallacy with what you say is that the ban lasted only 2 weeks. Was the risk of spread really so great?

“Just two weeks later the advice recommended dropping the playground ban because “young children currently have limited options for age-appropriate exercise and stimulation””

 

[adogsfan5]

The only fallacy with what you say is that the ban lasted only 2 weeks. Was the risk of spread really so great?

“Just two weeks later the advice recommended dropping the playground ban because “young children currently have limited options for age-appropriate exercise and stimulation””

Took them two weeks to work out kids had limited options?

Maybe it hit when they also chained basketball rings and closed skateparks.

 

[Kwality]

The Commonwealth Games are so irrelevant now. So Melbourne gets to host in 2026. Who next?

Ross Stevenson on 3AW suggested Melbourne should only agree to take on 2026 - let’s face it, we’re doing the organisers a huge favour - on the basis that Melbourne becomes the permanent host

I well remember Ross & John Clarke writing the mockumentary* of the 2000 Olympics.

*https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Games_(Australian_TV_series)