Vic How would you rate Daniel Andrews' performance as Victorian Premier? - Part 6

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Aug 14, 2011
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You do know how a democracy works?

Let us know when the collective of oxygen thieves in your own party consult with Labor on anything.

Why would Dan Andrews entertain any sort of discussion with people who endorse the bringing of gallows to a protest? He is treating them with the utter contempt they deserve.

Hey I voted for Dan because he was doing things & there was no viable alternative to consider - nothing has changed but my vote is not locked in for anyone, why would I change that.

Not sure why you would clip what I said, ignoring the context.
 
Oct 9, 2006
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Hey I voted for Dan because he was doing things & there was no viable alternative to consider - nothing has changed but my vote is not locked in for anyone, why would I change that.

Not sure why you would clip what I said, ignoring the context.

Fair enough.

But why would he consult with those who don't have the decency to distance themselves from white supremacists?
 
Previous advice was given with the understanding it would not be public and therefore may involve items which shouldn't be made public (i.e. commentary on specific age/cultural/medical groups).

It's not hard to understand that they don't want to release advice which may marginalise certain communities.
And you are certain this is why the government is spending tens ofbtjousandsbofvdollarsvfightingbtjis through the court system 9 months after the February lockdown? Nothing to with the notion that there was no health basis for the lockdown?
 

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Coatsworth is no longer a responsible source of information. He was saying long after being proven wrong that the virus was not airborne.

I'm 90% sure he's jockeying for LNP pre-selection. But I think he's missed his moment.

Missed the link & I cant find it.
His profession has not disowned him for an error you suggest makes him an unreliable source - why would you?
He's very well qualified in infectious diseases.
 
Aug 14, 2011
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Fair enough.

But why would he consult with those who don't have the decency to distance themselves from white supremacists?

Yes I ignore white supremacists & the other nutters taking their cause for a run on the back of the bill at the centre of the demonstration.
 

Saint

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And you are certain this is why the government is spending tens ofbtjousandsbofvdollarsvfightingbtjis through the court system 9 months after the February lockdown? Nothing to with the notion that there was no health basis for the lockdown?

OK, What do you think they're going to find? That the CHO was telling them not to bother with lockdowns? HAHA, Andrews is a dictator, just wanted lockdowns to pat himself on the back.

As we've found with NSW, the health advice was broad and probably talk more about the need for lockdowns and their impacts at various levels. Not the method of enforcing or policing it which might come more to specifics about curfews. It's all going to be very boring stuff about

"if we restrict movement to 80%, here's the modelling......70% here's the modelling" here's a bunch of assumptions (which may or may not upset people or be used against minorities"

The health advice will almost certainly not contain advice as specific as curfews or playgrounds. Of course they won't, the Health Dept was flat out with contact tracing, testing and isolation.

It's my strong suspicion that the illegal religious gatherings were a key component of spread and therefore the need for curfews and distance limitations. I'm an atheist, but I still don't want to see that type of specific advice made public because I've seen how much the Murdoch/Costello media like to pick on minorities.
 

Saint

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Missed the link & I cant find it.
His profession has not disowned him for an error you suggest makes him an unreliable source - why would you?
He's very well qualified in infectious diseases.



NICK COATSWORTH:

COVID-19 is definitely not an airborne pathogen. When you have airborne pathogens, like measles for example, the basic reproductive number that we've all come to know so well is much higher than what it is for COVID-19 – so, so definitely not an airborne.
..................
That's, that's correct, Laura. And I'll give you a good example – we use the measles example again. If you- you can get measles if you're standing next to someone from a very short period of time, but you can't get COVID with- in that sort of scenario. COVID, we know by the contact definition, requires contact of greater than 15 minutes just to give you a high likelihood of transmission. So no concerns there from the general public for airborne transmission of COVID.

That was early on, but still at the start of this year.....
Leading to this from the AMA


Coatsworth and the others at the Commonwealth have been trying to downplay the virus and transmission the whole time. Their airborne-transmission denial was as bad as their climate denial.
 
261228272_10158335735081641_7370932862942686985_n.jpg
 
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OK, What do you think they're going to find? That the CHO was telling them not to bother with lockdowns? HAHA, Andrews is a dictator, just wanted lockdowns to pat himself on the back.

As we've found with NSW, the health advice was broad and probably talk more about the need for lockdowns and their impacts at various levels. Not the method of enforcing or policing it which might come more to specifics about curfews. It's all going to be very boring stuff about

"if we restrict movement to 80%, here's the modelling......70% here's the modelling" here's a bunch of assumptions (which may or may not upset people or be used against minorities"

The health advice will almost certainly not contain advice as specific as curfews or playgrounds. Of course they won't, the Health Dept was flat out with contact tracing, testing and isolation.

It's my strong suspicion that the illegal religious gatherings were a key component of spread and therefore the need for curfews and distance limitations. I'm an atheist, but I still don't want to see that type of specific advice made public because I've seen how much the Murdoch/Costello media like to pick on minorities.

Everything you say is why releasing the health advice would disarm the critics. Consider having a look at the St Basils Coroner Inquest to understand how the decision making around the health advice works, e.g, https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-11-26/st-basils-covid-outbreak-aged-care-brett-sutton/100653034

Interesting conundrum you face with minorities, race v religion.
 
May 12, 2006
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OK, What do you think they're going to find? That the CHO was telling them not to bother with lockdowns? HAHA, Andrews is a dictator, just wanted lockdowns to pat himself on the back.

As we've found with NSW, the health advice was broad and probably talk more about the need for lockdowns and their impacts at various levels. Not the method of enforcing or policing it which might come more to specifics about curfews. It's all going to be very boring stuff about

"if we restrict movement to 80%, here's the modelling......70% here's the modelling" here's a bunch of assumptions (which may or may not upset people or be used against minorities"

The health advice will almost certainly not contain advice as specific as curfews or playgrounds. Of course they won't, the Health Dept was flat out with contact tracing, testing and isolation.

It's my strong suspicion that the illegal religious gatherings were a key component of spread and therefore the need for curfews and distance limitations. I'm an atheist, but I still don't want to see that type of specific advice made public because I've seen how much the Murdoch/Costello media like to pick on minorities.

There are plenty of people in the Victorian Government Departments tasked with writing briefs rather than service delivery - certainly many more than in 2014. They had the resources to write fulsome briefs.

I think most people would have expected there to be specific advice relating to playgrounds included in the briefs going to Cabinet members regarding the closure of playgrounds, and I can't think of any aspect of that advice that would be potentially used in attacking religious groups or minorities.
 

Saint

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There are plenty of people in the Victorian Government Departments tasked with writing briefs rather than service delivery - certainly many more than in 2014. They had the resources to write fulsome briefs.

I think most people would have expected there to be specific advice relating to playgrounds included in the briefs going to Cabinet members regarding the closure of playgrounds, and I can't think of any aspect of that advice that would be potentially used in attacking religious groups or minorities.

Yes, but they were receiving briefs written within a day or two of a situation arising. Most briefs go through weeks of approvals between author and Cabinet and based on perhaps months of work.
 
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Yes, but they were receiving briefs written within a day or two of a situation arising. Most briefs go through weeks of approvals between author and Cabinet and based on perhaps months of work.

Thats why questions are being asked. We all know mistakes have been made such is the pandemic & why the St Basils Coronial Inquest, involving both the State & the Feds, is revealing.
 
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Yes, but they were receiving briefs written within a day or two of a situation arising. Most briefs go through weeks of approvals between author and Cabinet and based on perhaps months of work.

Most briefs do, but briefs can go quicker can that, and I've seen it done with my own eyes. Also, the playground thing wasn't March 2020, it was August 2021, 17 months into the pandemic and three months into the Delta outbreak in Australia.
 

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NICK COATSWORTH:

COVID-19 is definitely not an airborne pathogen. When you have airborne pathogens, like measles for example, the basic reproductive number that we've all come to know so well is much higher than what it is for COVID-19 – so, so definitely not an airborne.
..................
That's, that's correct, Laura. And I'll give you a good example – we use the measles example again. If you- you can get measles if you're standing next to someone from a very short period of time, but you can't get COVID with- in that sort of scenario. COVID, we know by the contact definition, requires contact of greater than 15 minutes just to give you a high likelihood of transmission. So no concerns there from the general public for airborne transmission of COVID.

That was early on, but still at the start of this year.....
Leading to this from the AMA


Coatsworth and the others at the Commonwealth have been trying to downplay the virus and transmission the whole time. Their airborne-transmission denial was as bad as their climate denial.

Coatsworth is an absolute fraud.
 
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Saint

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You'll never disarm the critics mate.

Most of them can't interpret data.

Worse than that, they're constantly deliberately misinterpreting data and using perceived contradictions to undermine health orders.

How many people think wearing masks in public do nothing because studies in emergency rooms and operating theatres showed that the masks were not very effective? But, had they read any study about public mask wearing efficacy, they would have discovered masks DO work. This debate is still going on in the US and it's all down to deliberate mis-reading of data/information.

As for the playground and curfew, my best guess is that the health people said the spread wasn't slowing because people were still having too much contact. It wouldn't be in Health's knowledge to actually know where people contracted the virus, and the playground might be a guess, or information from police. It'll be very imperfect, which will be exploited by those who have been deliberately exploiting this information all along.

And as ideologically pleasing as it would be for ALL Government briefings to be public information, in practice, the media will almost certainly jump on any mistakes or wrong assumptions to undermine health orders. Like it or not, that will cost lives.

I work with Govt agencies all the time (not in health) and I've seen how things will be deliberately distorted for political advantage. Unfortunately, political advantage in this situation may cost lives. I'm comfortable that nobody was shutting playgrounds just because they enjoy seeing kids and parents suffer. So I don't need to see the evidence of the decision when I've got a high certainty that having that information may cost lives.
 

Saint

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Sorry didn’t know that. Plenty of other sources saying the same thing though re mild symptoms. Fingers crossed it stays this way.

Absolutely,

There's rightful worry about a more contagious and deadly strain circulating (like Delta was worse than earlier strains), but there's also the possibility of a more contagious strain which is less deadly. Which perhaps would be a relatively GOOD strain, if it provided immunity for those whom the vaccine was not effective against Delta or other more deadly strains.

Just because there's a new strain, doesn't mean it's necessarily bad news. But obviously best to err on the side of caution until more is known.
 
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Absolutely,

There's rightful worry about a more contagious and deadly strain circulating (like Delta was worse than earlier strains), but there's also the possibility of a more contagious strain which is less deadly. Which perhaps would be a relatively GOOD strain, if it provided immunity for those whom the vaccine was not effective against Delta or other more deadly strains.

Just because there's a new strain, doesn't mean it's necessarily bad news. But obviously best to err on the side of caution until more is known.

You'd swear that this new variant is coming to kill us all, if you believe the mass media.

The same media will then send their attack dogs to go after any official that takes a hard line in trying to slow it down.

They play us all for idiots.
 

Saint

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You'd swear that this new variant is coming to kill us all, if you believe the mass media.

The same media will then send their attack dogs to go after any official that takes a hard line in trying to slow it down.

They play us all for idiots.

They'll declare it deadliest yet, demand borders be shut.

In 3 weeks' time, they'll be trying to place blame for hysteria and why the borders were shut so quickly.
 
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If it is as transmissible as it appears to be in Southern Africa, it will probably be the dominant strain across the world within a month. If we aren't going to completely shut down our borders again we have to hope that vaccines are at least partly effective and it is less dangerous than other variants.
 

Christopher Buttersnip

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If you announce now but change after boosters are done (say around April/may), that's six months of "who is next" lame duck government.

If you announce the replacement now, the pressure is on almost immediately to do the switch.

As such, even if he wants out just due to exhaustion, you don't say sh*t now as it's counterproductive and harmful to the replacement.

Guy being replaced will come down to how he fairs and any preselection surprises. So far he's been half decent, so I'm not expecting a change
You're inside the tent, Ned, but all I've read and been told is if there was any doubt about Dan leading Labor to the next election it went out the door when the Liberal thugs and their propagandists at Newscorpse spread malicious and false stories about his fall. Including personal abuse directed at his family.

Don't know of any political party that would not want a person who can win them an election to retire. And when you look at the likes of Crozier, Staley, Southwick, et al in senior political positions and loose cannons like Finn and Smith hovering around only the ning nongs would vote for them.
 
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Previous advice was given with the understanding it would not be public and therefore may involve items which shouldn't be made public (i.e. commentary on specific age/cultural/medical groups).

It's not hard to understand that they don't want to release advice which may marginalise certain communities.

This is the biggest crock of s**t in this thread and that’s from a long list of contenders!!!

Saint has to be a part of Dans team cos no one outside them could possibly go to these lengths to try and deflect and defend bullshit decisions.

We all know they ****ed up in February and the lockdown was due to their *up, no other reason. That’s why they won’t release the health advice, not this bullshit it could be ‘offensive’

It’s only offensive to the government and their absolute incompetence
 
You're inside the tent, Ned, but all I've read and been told is if there was any doubt about Dan leading Labor to the next election it went out the door when the Liberal thugs and their propagandists at Newscorpse spread malicious and false stories about his fall. Including personal abuse directed at his family.

Don't know of any political party that would not want a person who can win them an election to retire. And when you look at the likes of Crozier, Staley, Southwick, et al in senior political positions and loose cannons like Finn and Smith hovering around only the ning nongs would vote for them.

I am not inside the tent, I dont even know where the tent is (im just a branch member despite what certain posters say)

As for my reasoning, its as follows:

1) running with Andrews gives the opposition a simple attack - the election is a referendum on covid 19. if you look at post war elections, the incumbent is often booted because people want a fresh start. With the opposition as useless as it is (FFS bringing back gay conversion therapy...), this gives them a chance to do damage

2) the ALP will win the election, BUT it will lose a lot of seats. This isnt about COVID, but the last wave election returning to some normality. as long as the opposition is half competent, its inevitable. How (1) is managed will either slow or accelerate this, and this will make a lot of backbenchers nervous

3) Merlino stood up well (surprisingly IMO), so its not like a credible alternative is not available

4) Andrews has endured one of the toughest roads of any premier outside of war, and i think he will be mentally and physically tapped. elections are tough, and serious questions have to be asked if he has whats needed in the tank to hold the ALP marginals
 
Coatsworth is no longer a responsible source of information. He was saying long after being proven wrong that the virus was not airborne.

I'm 90% sure he's jockeying for LNP pre-selection. But I think he's missed his moment.
Professor Peter Collignon, who has been the voice of calmness and reason, echoes what Coarsworth said today:

“Until we get evidence that the vaccines don’t work, or that this is much more dangerous in virulence — death and serious disease — I don’t think we should get too excited"

Professor Collignon went on to explain that there’s a good chance this variant won’t be worse, and that the vaccines we already have could still be effective — it’s just a matter of staying calm and seeing how it goes.

“We’ll get a pretty good idea, I would think, within the next few weeks from South Africa,” he explained.

 
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