Vic How would you rate Daniel Andrews' performance as Victorian Premier? - Part 7

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Crankyhawk

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I'm more on the we'd have a lot less criminals if the majority of the money going to cops went into communties and justice reinvestment.

Not to mention welfare going directly to people instead of funnelled through job
Agencies
I’ve also encountered antisocial types who blame everyone else for their own inability to control their impulses or blame others for triggering them- leading to random assaults.
 

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Pie eyed

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I'm more on the we'd have a lot less criminals if the majority of the money going to cops went into communties and justice reinvestment.

Not to mention welfare going directly to people instead of funnelled through job
Agencies
I have to totally agree with you here.
I could write an entire manifesto on why public money should be spent on solving the problem, not the speculated, but very profitable, disincentive.
 

Pie eyed

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And I’d say even higher proportion of undesirable personality types committing crime
Crime is a wide and sweeping term.

Only a decade ago, having anal sex in SA was a crime.
Being homsexual was a crime.
Smoking marijuana was a crime.

Which crime are you talking about?

A to my comment on cops.
I stand by it.
Statistics also backup my comment.

Not all cops are unsuitable to be cops but a very large proportion are.
 

Gralin

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I’ve also encountered antisocial types who blame everyone else for their own inability to control their impulses or blame others for triggering them- leading to random assaults.
You've just described multiple cops I know.
Want to guess which profession has a very high rate of domestic abuse that goes unpunished?

And I’d say even higher proportion of undesirable personality types committing crime
The difference is they aren't employed by the state to theoretically stop crime.

I say theoretically because its more about keeping people in line and down than it is about fixing stuff.

Andrews answer to every problem is more cops, more power for cops and more money/responsibility to cops

He's building more prisons too, that's a profitable thing with a nice pipeline of slave labour.

Literally any problem in society, the best answer is not more cops.

Cops at best deal with the symptoms, of course dealing with the cause would generally involve admitting the governments have all previously chosen not to
 

Crankyhawk

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You've just described multiple cops I know.
Want to guess which profession has a very high rate of domestic abuse that goes unpunished?


The difference is they aren't employed by the state to theoretically stop crime.

I say theoretically because its more about keeping people in line and down than it is about fixing stuff.

Andrews answer to every problem is more cops, more power for cops and more money/responsibility to cops

He's building more prisons too, that's a profitable thing with a nice pipeline of slave labour.

Literally any problem in society, the best answer is not more cops.

Cops at best deal with the symptoms, of course dealing with the cause would generally involve admitting the governments have all previously chosen not to
Poverty is a feature of the free market
 

Kwality

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I have to totally agree with you here.
I could write an entire manifesto on why public money should be spent on solving the problem, not the speculated, but very profitable, disincentive.

Maybe you could address assaults of ambo's & nurses. Collateral damage ?
 

Pie eyed

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Maybe you could address assaults of ambo's & nurses. Collateral damage ?
Seriously?
Do you want me to address individual cases?
Like the kid who got hooked on heroin and was forced to prostitute himself to senior NSW politicians because the drug he was addicted to, that they had a hand in importing, was made illegal by them to keep the price high?
Their actions made him a criminal, not his, so he died in an ally, after having bankrupted his parents, paying hundreds of thousands of dollars in rehab, legal costs and fines, to keep him out of prison, to try to get him off the drug that was made illegal, allegedly to protect him from harm. The only reason illicit drugs are illegal.

Rather than just have his addiction treated a as a health issue, at 100th the cost to the taxpayer and with little risk to himself or his family?

I don't even know why you bother to post your inane right wing crap.
 

Dogs_R_Us

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Seriously?
Do you want me to address individual cases?
Like the kid who got hooked on heroin and was forced to prostitute himself to senior NSW politicians because the drug he was addicted to, that they had a hand in importing, was made illegal by them to keep the price high?
Their actions made him a criminal, not his, so he died in an ally, after having bankrupted his parents, paying hundreds of thousands of dollars in rehab, legal costs and fines, to keep him out of prison, to try to get him off the drug that was made illegal, allegedly to protect him from harm. The only reason illicit drugs are illegal.

Rather than just have his addiction treated a as a health issue, at 100th the cost to the taxpayer and with little risk to himself or his family?

I don't even know why you bother to post your inane right wing crap.
Can you substantiate this with reports and evidence?
 

Crankyhawk

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See the “all cops are bad” argument falls down because I can find many examples of good cops. I can’t find examples of “good criminals” then you get *silly people who shoot people (sure maybe shot another criminal but that’s vigilante justice not due process) then steal cars and destroy them (happened today)

I don’t need to show that EVERY cop is good. But the ACAB argument needs to show they are all bad.
 

Kwality

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Seriously?
Do you want me to address individual cases?
Like the kid who got hooked on heroin and was forced to prostitute himself to senior NSW politicians because the drug he was addicted to, that they had a hand in importing, was made illegal by them to keep the price high?
Their actions made him a criminal, not his, so he died in an ally, after having bankrupted his parents, paying hundreds of thousands of dollars in rehab, legal costs and fines, to keep him out of prison, to try to get him off the drug that was made illegal, allegedly to protect him from harm. The only reason illicit drugs are illegal.

Rather than just have his addiction treated a as a health issue, at 100th the cost to the taxpayer and with little risk to himself or his family?

I don't even know why you bother to post your inane right wing crap.

exactly ... collateral damage to you & yours. Some manifesto.
 

Gralin

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See the “all cops are bad” argument falls down because I can find many examples of good cops. I can’t find examples of “good criminals” then you get *silly people who shoot people (sure maybe shot another criminal but that’s vigilante justice not due process) then steal cars and destroy them (happened today)

I don’t need to show that EVERY cop is good. But the ACAB argument needs to show they are all bad.
ACAB is real because the institution of policing is the problem.

The job is the problem.

There are people in jail for unpaid fines, they are classes as criminals.

There are people in jail because they got picked up by the cops on the streets and have nowhere to go so don't get released untill the charges are heard.

Often we're talking mental health issues and/or addiction issues that lead to homelessness

The job makes them bastards, it's a requirement, it didn't matter how good they are off duty
 

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Crankyhawk

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ACAB is real because the institution of policing is the problem.

The job is the problem.

There are people in jail for unpaid fines, they are classes as criminals.

There are people in jail because they got picked up by the cops on the streets and have nowhere to go so don't get released untill the charges are heard.

Often we're talking mental health issues and/or addiction issues that lead to homelessness

The job makes them bastards, it's a requirement, it didn't matter how good they are off duty
I’m aware people get picked up in those situations. I’m also aware they attempt to place them in crisis accommodation. Guess what there is * all of that available. Are they supposed to turn them out to non existent address while awaiting court? And I notice you avoid my characterisation of the more common bastard *er criminal (exploits everyone who is scum)
 

Gralin

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I’m aware people get picked up in those situations. I’m also aware they attempt to place them in crisis accommodation. Guess what there is * all of that available. Are they supposed to turn them out to non existent address while awaiting court? And I notice you avoid my characterisation of the more common bastard ducker criminal (exploits everyone who is scum)
ACAB has nothing to do with the character of anyone other than an on duty cop and the institution of policing
 

Kwality

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See the “all cops are bad” argument falls down because I can find many examples of good cops. I can’t find examples of “good criminals” then you get *silly people who shoot people (sure maybe shot another criminal but that’s vigilante justice not due process) then steal cars and destroy them (happened today)

I don’t need to show that EVERY cop is good. But the ACAB argument needs to show they are all bad.

No doubt in your job you'd see plenty of the good guys & the bad guys more often than the rest of us.:thumbsu:

The advocates here are short on examples for very good reason.
 

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