Vic How would you rate Daniel Andrews' performance as Victorian Premier? - Part 7

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May 12, 2006
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I wonder whether we should judge Guy based on how corrupt his chief of staff is, considering Andrews even gets blamed for the behaviour of his factional enemies.

That's a lovely bit of rhetorical gymnastics, but Somyurek was a member of the same political party that Andrews led, was appointed to the cabinet by Andrews, dismissed for gross misconduct, then appointed to the cabinet again by Andrews.

People will judge Guy on staffing decisions he makes. Andrews gets judged by the behaviour of members of his government. IMO both seem reasonable.
 

HurleyHepsHird

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That's a lovely bit of rhetorical gymnastics, but Somyurek was a member of the same political party that Andrews led, was appointed to the cabinet by Andrews, dismissed for gross misconduct, then appointed to the cabinet again by Andrews.

People will judge Guy on staffing decisions he makes. Andrews gets judged by the behaviour of members of his government. IMO both seem reasonable.
Somyurek was also committing his misdeeds with the express purpose of unseating Andrews.

Andrews however approached both IBAC and the national paryy executive to help clean up the skullduggery going on.
 

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May 12, 2006
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Somyurek was also committing his misdeeds with the express purpose of unseating Andrews.

Andrews however approached both IBAC and the national paryy executive to help clean up the skullduggery going on.

Was that after the story on 60 minutes?

Also, and again this is not in dispute, Somyurek was appointed to cabinet, sacked for gross misconduct, then appointed again by Daniel Andrews.
 

HurleyHepsHird

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Was that after the story on 60 minutes?

Also, and again this is not in dispute, Somyurek was appointed to cabinet, sacked for gross misconduct, then appointed again by Daniel Andrews.
And Andrews was responsible for excising him from the party.

The whole point of branch stacking is to give a crook like Somyurek disproportionate influence over party processes. Because Dan is in fact not a dictator, it took time and the proper exposing of wrongdoing, to remove a character like Adem.

Sadly, Vic Libs don't seem to have the same desire to reform. Given the party is preselecting religious extremists left and right, and seems to be dripping in scandal.
 
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And Andrews was responsible for excising him from the party.

The whole point of branch stacking is to give a crook like Somyurek disproportionate influence over party processes. Because Dan is in fact not a dictator, it took time and the proper exposing of wrongdoing, to remove a character like Adem.

Sadly, Vic Libs don't seem to have the same desire to reform. Given the party is preselecting religious extremists left and right, and seems to be dripping in scandal.
After appointing him to the cabinet twice.

I say for the record that someone like Somyurek would never be preselected by the Liberal Party, let alone be made a minister TWICE. As stated earlier, Marcus Bastiaan is no longer in the Liberal Party after a few years of action. Bastiaan never stood for preselection, let alone was endorsed and then elected. People like him come and go but never succeed for any length of time like Somyurek did in the ALP. Somyurek is a creature of the ALP. The very fabric of the party, the factions you use rhetorically to absolve the leader of said party, make Somyurek possible. A figure such as that simply cannot survive in the Liberal Party.

Think I have also stated in another thread that Andrews is not a dictator. But he should be held responsible for the behaviour of the members of his government. If he doesn't want that responsibility, he should feel free to resign the leadership of his party.

And everyone who hires someone has to live with the consequences of that decision, and I'm absolutely not suggesting otherwise.
 

William Wonka

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After appointing him to the cabinet twice.

I say for the record that someone like Somyurek would never be preselected by the Liberal Party, let alone be made a minister TWICE. As stated earlier, Marcus Bastiaan is no longer in the Liberal Party after a few years of action. Bastiaan never stood for preselection, let alone was endorsed and then elected. People like him come and go but never succeed for any length of time like Somyurek did in the ALP. Somyurek is a creature of the ALP. The very fabric of the party, the factions you use rhetorically to absolve the leader of said party, make Somyurek possible. A figure such as that simply cannot survive in the Liberal Party.

Think I have also stated in another thread that Andrews is not a dictator. But he should be held responsible for the behaviour of the members of his government. If he doesn't want that responsibility, he should feel free to resign the leadership of his party.

And everyone who hires someone has to live with the consequences of that decision, and I'm absolutely not suggesting otherwise.
The LNP have plenty of Somyurek equivalents.

Only difference is that because of the difference in nature between the parties the Libs numbers men are either inbred effete types calling in favours from blokes they gave an extra reach around to in boarding school, leaders of various 'business groups' that have all the charm charisma and morals of a Russian arms dealer or Christian fundamentalists dripping with the aura of tele-salesman mixed with protective custody prisoner.
 
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The LNP have plenty of Somyurek equivalents.

Only difference is that because of the difference in nature between the parties the Libs numbers men are either inbred effete types calling in favours from blokes they gave an extra reach around to in boarding school, leaders of various 'business groups' that have all the charm charisma and morals of a Russian arms dealer or Christian fundamentalists dripping with the aura of tele-salesman mixed with protective custody prisoner.

They don't end up appointed to Cabinet. Twice.

Every party has numbers people. Only in the ALP can they get to where Somyurek did. We've run the experiment.
 

Romeoh1

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Your personal claim to any form of superiority is ego aggrandizement at best.
Haha-yep.
Although just to clarify-you do think the architects and organisers of robodebt should face severe scrutiny that may result in consequences?
 
Aug 14, 2011
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The LNP have plenty of Somyurek equivalents.

Only difference is that because of the difference in nature between the parties the Libs numbers men are either inbred effete types calling in favours from blokes they gave an extra reach around to in boarding school, leaders of various 'business groups' that have all the charm charisma and morals of a Russian arms dealer or Christian fundamentalists dripping with the aura of tele-salesman mixed with protective custody prisoner.

We all know these people are attracted to political parties where power is a game. We saw it in action in the last Federal election where the NSW Libs were bickering over 'who's who ' in a party on the way out. Invariably the party leader is in it up to their eye balls, be it Morrison or Andrews.
 

Romeoh1

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To the extent anyone has done the wrong thing, prosecute them & the law will hold them to account, aka the consequences.
Precisely - so when they hold a royal commission ( as confirmed by Shorten), Porter, as the minister in charge of social services when it was implemented, will have his actions scrutinised, and he may face consequences.
 
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Precisely - so when they hold a royal commission ( as confirmed by Shorten), Porter, as the minister in charge of social services when it was implemented, will have his actions scrutinised, and he may face consequences.

Given Porter is no longer in the Federal Parliament, what are these consequences you keep eluding to?
 

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William Wonka

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We all know these people are attracted to political parties where power is a game. We saw it in action in the last Federal election where the NSW Libs were bickering over 'who's who ' in a party on the way out. Invariably the party leader is in it up to their eye balls, be it Morrison or Andrews.
Politicians will be politicians.
Numbers men and backroom powerbrokers are all part of the game.


Somyurek was losing the game and decided to cheat.
There is no way DAN! was involved in getting Somyurek the numbers to move against him.

Excuse my mangling of a 'Yes Minister' quote but "Those in the other party are just 'The opposition' it's those in your own party who are 'The enemy'
 
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Politicians will be politicians.
Numbers men and backroom powerbrokers are all part of the game.


Somyurek was losing the game and decided to cheat.
There is no way DAN! was involved in getting Somyurek the numbers to move against him.

Excuse my mangling of a 'Yes Minister' quote but "Those in the other party are just 'The opposition' it's those in your own party who are 'The enemy'
The cheating was not limited to one man. See Kairouz & Mammarella as examples.

Ms Glass has referred to 21 MPs:


Spot on 'Yes Minister' :thumbsu:
 

Romeoh1

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Given Porter is no longer in the Federal Parliament, what are these consequences you keep eluding to?
Well, firstly I’d like the RC to make recommendations so such a scheme can never operate again. Then it’d be good if they could recommend legal pursuits if actions warrant it. And perhaps a recommendation could be that an ex- minister’s pension entitlements( ministerial)could be looked at with a view to cancelling them -that strikes me as a pretty fair consequence for foisting robodebt onto people. I’m happy to see how the RC views it all.
 

William Wonka

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The cheating was not limited to one man. See Kairouz & Mammarella as examples.

Ms Glass has referred to 21 MPs:


Spot on 'Yes Minister' :thumbsu:

Somyurek was more branch stacking than misusing electoral office staff.

Fact is 99% of voters couldn't give a rats about this type of thing as they don't really see it as corruption.
The distinction between an MPs staffer photocopying government propaganda VS party propaganda is too nuanced for them to care
Same with Morrison's pork barrelling, as long as the money is being spent somewhere on something it's no issue.

The only thing the Oz public have never tolerated is when it's for personal gain.

That's why Guy has a problem because it's not clear that the 'secret payments' are donations rather than bribes.
 
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Gotta say, the best decision that the Andrews government has ever made was taking the power off the CHO under State of Emergency declarations to the Health Minister.

Under the CHO's directive, we'd have completely shat the bed in the current wave, issuing mask mandates to the general population in most settings and been forced to work from home, further crashing sections of the economy at tremendous expense and been the only state who would have done so.

New Zealand's got indoor mask mandates and an average daily death rate higher than Victoria despite a smaller population.

This wave is passed the peak and is on the decline and the only stupid decision that's happened is the stealth mandate for kids to wear masks in schools, which was caused by virtue-signallers egotistically needing to feel like they are doing something.
 
New Zealand's got indoor mask mandates and an average daily death rate higher than Victoria despite a smaller population.
Would that be the mask mandates chasing the infection rate rather than the other way around?
 

Brad Goodman

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I'll always be amazed at how divisive the mask thing is. I get the argument about minimal impact on infection rates, but the actual wearing of a mask isn't any more difficult, uncomfortable or inconvenient than wearing underpants.
 
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I'll always be amazed at how divisive the mask thing is. Wearing a mask isn't any more difficult, uncomfortable or inconvenient than wearing underpants.

It's slightly more uncomfortable and inconvenient, especially for us who wear glasses.
 
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Would that be the mask mandates chasing the infection rate rather than the other way around?
What does it matter? They do nothing in the general population.

Interesting that the heath advice is that N95 masks are the 'panacea' this time around...





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The same knobs who march against these things probably venerate the sacrifices of our armed forces. Bask in the reflected ANZAC glow while they cant do one tiny thing to help their fellow man.

It's all a performance to get them noticed.
 

adogsfan5

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I'll always be amazed at how divisive the mask thing is. I get the argument about minimal impact on infection rates, but the actual wearing of a mask isn't any more difficult, uncomfortable or inconvenient than wearing underpants.

I reckon most of those people get worried that it’ll get implemented again at things like the footy, bars, restaurants etc. where you need to have it for the toilet/to get food/drinks.

I couldn’t give two shi*s about wearing it in an Uber, public transport or shops.
 
What does it matter? They do nothing in the general population.
Dude. Come on. You have no training in any of this. It looks silly when people start to bring out charts they think back up their "research".

You can't become a medical statistician on Google.
 
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