Vic How would you rate Daniel Andrews' performance as Victorian Premier? - Part 7

[FRUMPY]

Apart from solving an immediate problem in a relatively cost effective manner, sky rail is also a guide to ho Melbourne might look in the future (next 50/75/100 years) with more buildings going up along rail lines as we increase density due to increasing population growth.

Low cost and/or public housing along these elevated rail lines?

Be like the 'L' in Chicago eventually....

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[Donakebab]

Sky Rails have been a smashing success, only a complete NIMBY/plonk would think otherwise.

 

[Lethality]

no - you said its less visible. its not less visible because it has a "lighter design", its less visible because its surrounded by large buildings.

It would be less visible regardless, part of it is the lighter design. Although it does help when it isn't as incongruous as some of the SkyRail.

 

[Lethality]

Sky Rails have been a smashing success, only a complete NIMBY/plonk would think otherwise.

If it were a smashing success there wouldn't be any reason to suspect NIMBYism.

 

[Gralin]

It would be less visible regardless, part of it is the lighter design. Although it does help when it isn't as incongruous as some of the SkyRail.

What is this lighter design you keep spouting

 

[Ghost Patrol]

What is this lighter design you keep spouting

Well, sir, there's nothin' on earth like a genuine bona-fide electrified six-car monorail!

 

[Pakenhamsaint]

I think there would have been many exciting alternatives, including underground or below street level.

The level crossing in Rosanna for example was near the bottom of a big slope. A simple road bridge could have bypassed the rail in that instance.

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A road bridge here would be near impossib
Rail over is the best option. Why you ask. On the Up(city) side of the station is slightly downhill. On the down(Hursbridge) end the line starts a 1 in 50 grade.

You can see here pre removal the track lowers into the station before the 1 in 50.

It's smoothed it out a bit better. Having the hill at the down end means trains go quicker out and stop quicker coming in.

If it were a smashing success there wouldn't be any reason to suspect NIMBYism.

It's such a success the NIMBYs have changed thier mind and have embraced it.

Agree. The only way trenching won't cut neighbourhoods in half is if you put a roof over it, and that probably makes it marginally less expensive than tunnelling. I don't know

Decking over can only be done so far before it's classed as a tunnel and has to be treated as such. It's why things like Fed square East have never really happened.
The only decking from the current lot of removals has been Ormond. The deck still sits unused because the NIMBYs have complained about any sort of apartment building there.

my guess (guess) is by doing the duplication on both sides its preparing for if/when something happens to the bridge (be it fire or flood or accident) and the replacement can be a dual track

otherwise why not just have a single track shuttle from Montmorency? (btw speaking as a completely ignorant idiot, I have never travelled this line during peak hours)

We used to have a shuttle train funny enough. Between Eltham and Hustbridge.

4 Tait Motor cars had a cab added in at the no.2 end in 1968/1970 ans were used on Camberwell-Alemain. Eltham-Hurstbridge and Newport-Altona.

I know, but the issues of construction regs and safety requirements have changed a lot since then. If they had to do a partial rebuild, it would be interesting to see if they could still do it the same as is now.

You'd be surprised of the knowhow that's been passed down.

Eltham doesnt make state construction laws

to have something as a "living museum" is very hard to do, which is why many of these things end up choosing one or the other (there is a reason Pisa closed off to punters, and its likely the Taj Mahal and Great Wall will make similar closures soon)

Case in point the gates in Ballarat. Now boomgates because a train obliterated them.

I ride my bike and walk my dogs along the anniversary trail that runs parallel to the Alamein line trenches, and ive been to the skyrail around Carnegie and Springvale

anyone who thinks the skyrail divides the public spaces as much as a freaking trench is kidding themselves

The upfield line ones are fantastic. Old handgate crossings that were closed in the 90s have been re opened as walking paths under the track.

 

[Lethality]

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A road bridge here would be near impossib
Rail over is the best option. Why you ask. On the Up(city) side of the station is slightly downhill. On the down(Hursbridge) end the line starts

Why would a bridge be impossible? I didn't get the explanation from this post.

It's such a success the NIMBYs have changed thier mind and have embraced it.

What makes you say that?

 

[Lethality]

The upfield line ones are fantastic. Old handgate crossings that were closed in the 90s have been re opened as walking paths under the track.

I can attest personally to there being little to no difference as I cycle/d alongside that line and have walked alongside as well.

If anything it's less accessible as a cyclist since the platforms are no longer at street level.

 

[Pakenhamsaint]

Why would a bridge be impossible? I didn't get the explanation from this post.

Look at the road. You have two intersections close. You have shops and houses. To create a suitable grade the approach to go a 100m beyond the rail line.

What makes you say that?

Because people who were complaining about the Skyrail have changed thier tune after it's finished.

More than a year on, has 'sky rail' turned suburbs into ghettos?

Plans to construct elevated rail bridges through Melbourne's south-east attracted fierce criticism. We speak to those living in the shadows of 'sky rail' to determine its success.

www.theage.com.au

I can attest personally to there being little to no difference as I cycle/d alongside that line and have walked alongside as well.

If anything it's less accessible as a cyclist since the platforms are no longer at street level.

I have walked along it both before and after. There's far more access points.
Every platform has 2 lifts. It's zero issues for a cyclist. Or is pushing a button too hard?

 

[sandeano]

Because people who were complaining about the Skyrail have changed thier tune after it's finished.

According to someone I know who worked in the planning department, they had to waste countless hours assuring people that no, pedophiles would not be able to look at their kids playing in their gardens from the elevated trains.

 

[Pakenhamsaint]

According to someone I know who worked in the planning department, they had to waste countless hours assuring people that no, pedophiles would not be able to look at their kids playing in their gardens from the elevated trains.

That anti skyrail group that pushed that came up with some really stupid arguments.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

According to someone I know who worked in the planning department, they had to waste countless hours assuring people that no, pedophiles would not be able to look at their kids playing in their gardens from the elevated trains.

I never understood that - we have rail lines all over Melbourne that look into house yards from elevation

 

[Lethality]

Look at the road. You have two intersections close. You have shops and houses.

130 metres between shops would surely be enough room to lower the rail or keep the road elevated, or both.

Because people who were complaining about the Skyrail have changed thier tune after it's finished.

More than a year on, has 'sky rail' turned suburbs into ghettos?

Plans to construct elevated rail bridges through Melbourne's south-east attracted fierce criticism. We speak to those living in the shadows of 'sky rail' to determine its success.

www.theage.com.au

Ok that's a few anecdotes in a puff piece mainly concerned with anti-social behaviour.

Every platform has 2 lifts. It's zero issues for a cyclist. Or is pushing a button too hard?

It's just a worse design. You've gone from having a nice ramp up to an appropriately sized station platform, or a nice ramp down in the case of tunnel rail, to taking an elevator up in this huge building. Stations like Rosanna or Carnegie just aren't that big a deal, yet they now dwarf most rail interchanges.

I almost forgot that this is the case for all passengers.

 

[Nuggs Bunny]

There are none so blind as those who will not see

 

[Pakenhamsaint]

130 metres between shops would surely be enough room to lower the rail or keep the road elevated, or both.

You don't have 130m to work with to start! In Rosanna's case you have 20m either side for the road. The railway as I've already explained has grades either side of it. You can't lower the road. You can't lower the rail line. You can't

Ok that's a few anecdotes in a puff piece mainly concerned with anti-social behaviour.

It's not an anecdote. People were fearing overshadowing, some thier property value.
All of it was unfounded.

It's just a worse design. You've gone from having a nice ramp up to an appropriately sized station platform, or a nice ramp down in the case of tunnel rail, to taking an elevator up in this huge building. Stations like Rosanna or Carnegie just aren't that big a deal, yet they now dwarf most rail interchanges.

I almost forgot that this is the case for all passengers.

Modern railway station design requires 2 separate DDA access points. That can be achieved by having 2 lifts or by having a ramp and a lift.
It won't matter if it's a trench or an elevated rail line. A ramp requires to be a certain gradient to meet DDA standards.
For instance the ramp at Williams Landing is 150m long to meet that standard

 

[Lethality]

You don't have 130m to work with to start! In Rosanna's case you have 20m either side for the road.

Are you referring to those side streets? There's easy ways around that.

Modern railway station design requires 2 separate DDA access points. That can be achieved by having 2 lifts or by having a ramp and a lift.
It won't matter if it's a trench or an elevated rail line. A ramp requires to be a certain gradient to meet DDA standards.

So much easier to accommodate disabled on a smaller station too

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Are you referring to those side streets? There's easy ways around that.


So much easier to accommodate disabled on a smaller station too

What's the easy way around that?

 

[peetoo]

LXR benefit comes mainly to rail, with the happy coincidence road benefits too.

Especially those around murumbeena

But even the rail benefit needs metro tunnel,and loop efficiency upgrades

 

[Pakenhamsaint]

Are you referring to those side streets? There's easy ways around that.


So much easier to accommodate disabled on a smaller station too

Not really. It's not much different.

 

[Dave]

What's the easy way around that?

Magic.

 

[Home Alone]

Magic.

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[Xtreme]

Dan's first big test since his re-election last week, Ambulance Victoria going into code red mode

Of course COVID being blamed yet again, seriously if he does nothing to address the hospital situation in this term he's nothing more the big bad wolf - huffing and puffing but unable to make any positive impact.

 

[Donakebab]

Dan's first big test since his re-election last week, Ambulance Victoria going into code red mode

Of course COVID being blamed yet again, seriously if he does nothing to address the hospital situation in this term he's nothing more the big bad wolf - huffing and puffing but unable to make any positive impact.

Over 140 ambos furloughed. Of the 10 that I know well, 5 are sick with COVID.

This COVID wave is real.

You suck.

 

[Xtreme]

Over 140 ambos furloughed. Of the 10 that I know well, 5 are sick with COVID.

This COVID wave is real.

You suck.

And yet he hasn't got a contingency plan in place

He's had years to do something about the health system, but inaction is his go to move.