Tasmania ? How would YOU solve the Economic challenge to get Tassie in the AFL

Jul 20, 2008
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Do the AFL relinquish this ?...
how does the AFL balance its overarching responsibility to our game whilst using Taswegian taxpayer money to subsidise Melbourne clubs ? Is Tas seen as traditional support for Victorian footy?

There is an oversupply of AFL footy in Melbourne & its time the AFL face up to it, beginning with Tas.
Agree, relative to AFL matches played throughout the nation Melbourne could do with less games....and we should be aiming for more in other locations...particularly Qld and NSW....this is what expansion is all about.
 
Mar 17, 2009
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Agree, relative to AFL matches played throughout the nation Melbourne could do with less games....and we should be aiming for more in other locations...particularly Qld and NSW....this is what expansion is all about.

What about expanding the game in WA?
2 teams, the same as NSW & SEQ. ,Any more north of the Barassi line would be ridiculous.
 
The supply & concept is tooo difficult for you.

You justify taking from footy fans out of Melbourne to subsidise the Melbourne market.

Sure the AFL could take 25% of the WA stadium IF the landlord allowed it, weird concept that it is - forget your problem with WA for a minute & apply all your logic to Geelong, why would you? Logic might be flawed?


I understand supply and demand, do you? Or have you given up wanting a club in Tas, where the demand, per club, is LOWER than in Vic?


As for the financial elements of my comments, you're complaining about Vic clubs getting a small fraction from smaller markets than they lose to the league from the stadium deals. IS it so unbalanced to ask that other clubs give as much to the league as Vic clubs have to? Or do you just want WA clubs to keep FREELOADING of the funding provided by Vic clubs?

If your club actually paid it's share to the league, rather than requiring others to do the heavy lifting, maybe those doing the lifting wouldn't be struggling.
 
Mar 17, 2009
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I understand supply and demand, do you? Or have you given up wanting a club in Tas, where the demand, per club, is LOWER than in Vic?


As for the financial elements of my comments, you're complaining about Vic clubs getting a small fraction from smaller markets than they lose to the league from the stadium deals. IS it so unbalanced to ask that other clubs give as much to the league as Vic clubs have to? Or do you just want WA clubs to keep FREELOADING of the funding provided by Vic clubs?

If your club actually paid it's share to the league, rather than requiring others to do the heavy lifting, maybe those doing the lifting wouldn't be struggling.

Suggesting Demand 'per club' here is less than in Victoria is about the dumbest thing I could think of. Tasmania doesn't have a club. Whats the comparison? Again you just make up a point & discuss it with yourself.
WA clubs freeloading? The second biggest footy market was only allowed to have 2 clubs. Its natural they financially are way in front of many Port Philip bay clubs. WA contributes far more to the AFL than many old state league teams do.
 
Jul 30, 2012
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On topic:

1. Now the contract for Etihad is no more, renovate Princes Park for the low drawing games. If North v Freo or StK v GC etc were relocated to smaller ground (remember the 'best fit' policy?). This would stop the sale of games to avoid a loss financially at Etihad. North have been presented a bill for staging games there and presume others have to. Games would only where they really wanted instead of avoiding the bill.

2. Tas Govt present a business case for a single team from a single ground. If they can't stack the numbers up, why should anyone else try? Let self interest rule. If it doesn't stack up, well it is no AFL conspiracy etc.

3. Tas Govt to stop sponsoring North/Hawthorn. They say they want a team, but fund two to some degree.

4. Set up a soccer/lacrosse/tiddleywinks team. The AFL doesn't like to be beaten by anyone.

5. Set up an AFLW side along the lines of a senior side and demonstrate the model works.

6. Set up a Tassie Academy for development/drafting. Build up the Talent, so it is not Richo wearing the Tassie jumper, but young guys/girls who want to stay in Tassie.
 
Aug 14, 2011
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I understand supply and demand, do you? Or have you given up wanting a club in Tas, where the demand, per club, is LOWER than in Vic?

As for the financial elements of my comments... Or do you just want WA clubs to keep FREELOADING of the funding provided by Vic clubs?

If your club actually paid it's share to the league, rather than requiring others to do the heavy lifting, maybe those doing the lifting wouldn't be struggling.

Typically unsubstantiated motherhood statement but it is a feature of your posts criticising anything you oppose.

Supply & demand : oversupply in Melbourne, see games that can not pull a crowd so are moved to Darwin, Cairns, Hobart, Alice Springs, Launceston, New Zealand & soon Ballarat, plus games can not cover cost.
Demand in WA & SA.

That's the issue, not in Tas, as well you know.

Now go to my club paying its way, lets compare it with the Tiges - how much did the Eagles kick into local footy last year, how much did the Tiges kick in? Not a criticism of the Tiges - if this has passed you by, I'll do the googling for you !
 
Aug 14, 2011
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On topic:

1. Now the contract for Etihad is no more, renovate Princes Park for the low drawing games. If North v Freo or StK v GC etc were relocated to smaller ground (remember the 'best fit' policy?). This would stop the sale of games to avoid a loss financially at Etihad. North have been presented a bill for staging games there and presume others have to. Games would only where they really wanted instead of avoiding the bill.

2. Tas Govt present a business case for a single team from a single ground. If they can't stack the numbers up, why should anyone else try? Let self interest rule. If it doesn't stack up, well it is no AFL conspiracy etc.

3. Tas Govt to stop sponsoring North/Hawthorn. They say they want a team, but fund two to some degree.

4. Set up a soccer/lacrosse/tiddleywinks team. The AFL doesn't like to be beaten by anyone.

5. Set up an AFLW side along the lines of a senior side and demonstrate the model works.

6. Set up a Tassie Academy for development/drafting. Build up the Talent, so it is not Richo wearing the Tassie jumper, but young guys/girls who want to stay in Tassie.

Nothing has changed at Etihad financially since the AFL took over.
 
Jul 20, 2008
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What about expanding the game in WA?
2 teams, the same as NSW & SEQ. ,Any more north of the Barassi line would be ridiculous.

Sure you could expand in WA, you just have to work out why you are trying to expand the competition and grow the game and then decide the best location for expansion. IMO Tassie, NT, Qld and NSW are the only valid targets for growing the game throughout Australia.
 
Aug 14, 2011
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Sure you could expand in WA, you just have to work out why you are trying to expand the competition and grow the game and then decide the best location for expansion. IMO Tassie, NT, Qld and NSW are the only valid targets for growing the game throughout Australia.

No more teams, too many flakey lists* already, not enough players of AFL standard.

* start with my mob.
 
Mar 17, 2009
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Sure you could expand in WA, you just have to work out why you are trying to expand the competition and grow the game and then decide the best location for expansion. IMO Tassie, NT, Qld and NSW are the only valid targets for growing the game throughout Australia.

The comment was to expose the ridiculous situation of 2 clubs in Perth at over 40% the size of the Port Philip bay area with 10 clubs.
Thats your problem right their.;)
 
Mar 17, 2009
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My perspective is that the game is already very strong in Perth....it needs growth in other locations.

So how do we grow the game when we cant rationalise that growth? Is 18 clubs the maximum? If so, again, how do we grow the game. Where do we grow the game?
If the number of clubs can change, where will new the clubs come from do you think? Will Perth ever get more clubs?
What do you think a good balance of teams in various places would be?
 
Jul 20, 2008
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So how do we grow the game when we cant rationalise that growth? Is 18 clubs the maximum? If so, again, how do we grow the game. Where do we grow the game?
If the number of clubs can change, where will new the clubs come from do you think? Will Perth ever get more clubs?
What do you think a good balance of teams in various places would be?

All good questions. To me growth of Aussie rules would be increased popularity of the game in Qld and NSW. How that growth actually appears is not knowable. You plant the seed and see what happens. The first seed was in 1979 when the North and Hawthorn played to a packed SCG...then other VFL matches were played in 1980 and 81. Finally the Swans relocated to Sydney in 1982....and so on.

Right now I think there are the optimum number of clubs in Qld and NSW....they just have to get bigger. Simply I would move a small number of "matches" out of Melbourne and play them in critical locations in Qld and NSW. eg in Cairns and Albury... It's only a small step...but small steps are better...you don't over committ and you see what happens. eg. Moving North and Hawthorn out of Tassie to take up these options. Albury has no AFL matches and it is in NSW and is within the Barassi line.

In addition you continue to aim to get a team in Tassie and consider options for NT. Already there are 9 AFL matches played in these two locations.......A true Tassie team would be a massive boost to the AFL in terms of the national profile of the game. NT is an even further bridge for the AFL to cross but 10,000 fans showed up at TIO on Saturday night. Obviously how you structure an NT club would be radically different to most other clubs........but a true NT club would also massively change the profile of AFL.

To my mind for the AFL to expand successfully it has to reflect the culture and geography of Australia itself. In other words I don't think it should compete with Soccer or Rugby League etc..or try to be like the NFL or the EPL or whatever....it should just embrace the idea of being the Australian game however that evolves and run with that. .thanks for reading.....
 
Aug 14, 2011
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Sure you could expand in WA, you just have to work out why you are trying to expand the competition and grow the game and then decide the best location for expansion. IMO Tassie, NT, Qld and NSW are the only valid targets for growing the game throughout Australia.

In both Adelaide & Perth there is excess in demand as is, coupled with limited seating - the answer is to play more games in both cities to satisfy the demand - yes, we all know about home ground & travel, but its a shallow excuse as long as the GF is mandated at the MCG.
 
Jul 20, 2008
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Agree Kwality, certainly the game is extremely popular in WA and SA. If I am understanding you correctly you are saying that more matches should be played in those states to allow more people to attend an AFL match. I agree it would be great for those people to get a better chance to attend a game. . Also it would be a healthy cash injection for some struggling Melbourne clubs to improve their bottom line. However the nett no. of people following AFL in those states would probably remain about the same or only slightly increase so I am not sure whether this really has a an impact on significantly expanding the game.

Also having more financially viable clubs in the AFL allows the competition to be a bit more adventurous in promoting the game in "non-AFL" states. So maybe some Melbourne clubs would be happy to sell a game into SA or WA. I think North were keen to do this at one stage although the AFL weren't. I agree with shifting matches out of Melbourne and giving any club who wishes , a chance to promote themselves and the game. I think it's fair to say that the game is virtually as popular as it will ever be in WA,SA and Vic. Conversely all the other states are where the potential for growing the popularity of the game is the greatest.
 
Mar 17, 2009
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Agree Kwality, certainly the game is extremely popular in WA and SA. If I am understanding you correctly you are saying that more matches should be played in those states to allow more people to attend an AFL match. I agree it would be great for those people to get a better chance to attend a game. . Also it would be a healthy cash injection for some struggling Melbourne clubs to improve their bottom line. However the nett no. of people following AFL in those states would probably remain about the same or only slightly increase so I am not sure whether this really has a an impact on significantly expanding the game.

Also having more financially viable clubs in the AFL allows the competition to be a bit more adventurous in promoting the game in "non-AFL" states. So maybe some Melbourne clubs would be happy to sell a game into SA or WA. I think North were keen to do this at one stage although the AFL weren't. I agree with shifting matches out of Melbourne and giving any club who wishes , a chance to promote themselves and the game. I think it's fair to say that the game is virtually as popular as it will ever be in WA,SA and Vic. Conversely all the other states are where the potential for growing the popularity of the game is the greatest.

Certainly some Melbourne clubs would be & are happy to sell games. It shows the difficulty of the tight Melbourne market. The problem becomes, is it right to try to sell games into SA & WA? The 4 clubs in those states support the game of ARF in those states. Why should they also have to support teams in Victoria as well?
Can we see the inherent problem here.
 
Aug 14, 2011
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Agree Kwality, certainly the game is extremely popular in WA and SA. If I am understanding you correctly you are saying that more matches should be played in those states to allow more people to attend an AFL match. I agree it would be great for those people to get a better chance to attend a game. . Also it would be a healthy cash injection for some struggling Melbourne clubs to improve their bottom line. However the nett no. of people following AFL in those states would probably remain about the same or only slightly increase so I am not sure whether this really has a an impact on significantly expanding the game.

Also having more financially viable clubs in the AFL allows the competition to be a bit more adventurous in promoting the game in "non-AFL" states. So maybe some Melbourne clubs would be happy to sell a game into SA or WA. I think North were keen to do this at one stage although the AFL weren't. I agree with shifting matches out of Melbourne and giving any club who wishes , a chance to promote themselves and the game. I think it's fair to say that the game is virtually as popular as it will ever be in WA,SA and Vic. Conversely all the other states are where the potential for growing the popularity of the game is the greatest.

Ignoring the demand in WA & SA is no different to ignoring the game in Tas & it has done nothing for our game inTas.

Selling games, NO, the AFL use its fixturing power where games are going to run at a loss in Melbourne. It is about the demand in WA & SA, the oversupply of games in Melbourne, not subsidising clubs in Melbourne. Yes, the Melbourne clubs involved would benefit financially but the AFL should use its influence as it did fixturing a Gold Coast game in China.
 
Mar 17, 2009
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Ignoring the demand in WA & SA is no different to ignoring the game in Tas & it has done nothing for our game inTas.

Selling games, NO, the AFL use its fixturing power where games are going to run at a loss in Melbourne. It is about the demand in WA & SA, the oversupply of games in Melbourne, not subsidising clubs in Melbourne. Yes, the Melbourne clubs involved would benefit financially but the AFL should use its influence as it did fixturing a Gold Coast game in China.

So is the AFL a national competition, or just a life support system for the old VFL? ;)
 
Suggesting Demand 'per club' here is less than in Victoria is about the dumbest thing I could think of. Tasmania doesn't have a club. Whats the comparison? Again you just make up a point & discuss it with yourself.
WA clubs freeloading? The second biggest footy market was only allowed to have 2 clubs. Its natural they financially are way in front of many Port Philip bay clubs. WA contributes far more to the AFL than many old state league teams do.

If Tas got a club, the supply/demand would be worse than for any Vic club. You only have 20K stadia for a reason.


So what do WA clubs contribute to the AFL's coffers?

Vic clubs bought them a billion dollar stadium, as well as bring in a sizable income stream in AFL memberships, and 'bonuses' from the MCG...Where is the similar contribution from other states?

But yeah, bite the hand that feeds you.
 
So is the AFL a national competition, or just a life support system for the old VFL? ;)

The 'old VFL' is what props the rest up.

Not like WA or SA contribute much to supporting the game in NSW, QLD (or Tas).

Add a Tas team and they'd be even bigger takers.
 
Ignoring the demand in WA & SA is no different to ignoring the game in Tas & it has done nothing for our game inTas.

Selling games, NO, the AFL use its fixturing power where games are going to run at a loss in Melbourne. It is about the demand in WA & SA, the oversupply of games in Melbourne, not subsidising clubs in Melbourne. Yes, the Melbourne clubs involved would benefit financially but the AFL should use its influence as it did fixturing a Gold Coast game in China.

Fine, lets have 4 or 5 teams in WA then.

By your supply/demand logic that should happen before Tas even gets a sniff. After all, WA has more than 5 times as many people and 11 times the economy of Tas.



Maybe then WA can actually put something into the league for a change.
 
Mar 17, 2009
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If Tas got a club, the supply/demand would be worse than for any Vic club. You only have 20K stadia for a reason.


So what do WA clubs contribute to the AFL's coffers?

Vic clubs bought them a billion dollar stadium, as well as bring in a sizable income stream in AFL memberships, and 'bonuses' from the MCG...Where is the similar contribution from other states?

But yeah, bite the hand that feeds you.

The size of stadiums is relevant only as to how much they cost to run per seat of attendances & what profit they can generate. I note that clubs lose money even with decent crowds at Etihad. I see that the plan is to better help clubs in that regard, but some on here seem to think they'll make make huge profits. The AFL cant give the ground away, it costs heaps to run & maintain such a facility, depreciation etc needs to be paid for out of the users returns. Its the AFL who want to sponsor new clubs in GC, GWS & poor Port Philip clubs. The money has to come from somewhere.

Tassie have 20k stadiums, without even a home club! & they make money for Hawks & Roos. What do you want? Maybe 40k stadiums in Darwin, Hobart, Launceston, Cairns, Alice Springs, Bendigo, Ballarat. Yeah anything to maximise costs for local councils & state Guments, but not to the Port Philip clubs losing money on home games .

They just like to take the profits back to HQ in Melbourne. Its good business when you can socialise your costs & privatise your profits!! ;)

WA & SA both pay for the AF activities & game support in their own states. The AFL TV rights would include the 4.3million people in WA & SA. I'm sure that all goes into AFL coffers in Melbourne for the above struggling & new clubs.

Clearly far more money flows into Victoria from WA, SA & indeed from Tasmania than the other way. In general, the Southern States pay for the Northern states development.
 
Aug 14, 2011
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If Tas got a club, the supply/demand would be worse than for any Vic club. You only have 20K stadia for a reason.


So what do WA clubs contribute to the AFL's coffers?

Vic clubs bought them a billion dollar stadium, as well as bring in a sizable income stream in AFL memberships, and 'bonuses' from the MCG...Where is the similar contribution from other states?

But yeah, bite the hand that feeds you.

So do tell, how does the Saints contribute more than Port - just another unsubstantiated motherhood statement?
 
So do tell, how does the Saints contribute more than Port - just another unsubstantiated motherhood statement?

11 games at docklands would have given the league over $5.5M / year on terms of capital gains.

What does Port (or WCE for that matter) provide to the AFL to compare with that?

Written on the magic device while drunk down the pub.
 
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