Howard should donate $100 million to the tsunami victims today

lenny&carl

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They all need help straight away, and big help, and the country would earn much more than $100 million worth of international goodwill for trying to help.

So Australia should do it. The government has a surplus, they can afford to share some given the severity of the situation. Do it either to win permanent good-relations with many important neighbouring countries, or do it because people badly need help. But it would be money well spent from a scheming strategic liberal-party point of view, because it would buy improved trade etc relations with India, Indonesia, etc.

And it's Christmas - spirit of giving and all that... would anyone really object to the government spending big to help the rescue effort?

A couple hundred million bucks is a lot of money, but the govt has billions spare this year, and if they step up to the plate with a ~$200m donation they will earn the country $2 Billion dollars worth of credit/goodwill throughout the region.

It would either build a new freeway somewhere, or it could rescue thousands of people, so it's not that much money.
 

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#2
lenny&carl said:
They all need help straight away, and big help, and the country would earn much more than $100 million worth of international goodwill for trying to help.

So Australia should do it. The government has a surplus, they can afford to share some given the severity of the situation. Do it either to win permanent good-relations with many important neighbouring countries, or do it because people badly need help. But it would be money well spent from a scheming strategic liberal-party point of view, because it would buy improved trade etc relations with India, Indonesia, etc.

And it's Christmas - spirit of giving and all that... would anyone really object to the government spending big to help the rescue effort?

A couple hundred million bucks is a lot of money, but the govt has billions spare this year, and if they step up to the plate with a ~$200m donation they will earn the country $2 Billion dollars worth of credit/goodwill throughout the region.

It would either build a new freeway somewhere, or it could rescue thousands of people, so it's not that much money.
Your serious arent you? Its a freak of nature .The greedy corrupt leaders would stash the money away and still have dead and dying people.

Now you headed the thread with $100M then without a blink made it $200m , make your mind up.

What is urgently required isnt money but goods and services. Medical supplies and food aid . I would also offer to send over engineers to reclaim a lot of damaged roads and waterways.

L&C .. another wannabe saint who thinks throwing money at a problem will make them feel good without them actually getting off their @rse to do something.
 

lenny&carl

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yeah yeah, steady on. It's got nothing to do with how I might feel, I just reckon that it would be a win/win for the government to lash out on spending donations at this time, as a one off. Government eggheads and corporate relations officers spend millions trying to improve the image of their country and business, here's a ********-easy honest way to do it. It would open doors, and be worthwhile for Australia even for you guys who don't seem to care much about the actual dead & injured.
 

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#5
lenny&carl said:
yeah yeah, steady on. It's got nothing to do with how I might feel, I just reckon that it would be a win/win for the government to lash out on spending donations at this time, as a one off. Government eggheads and corporate relations officers spend millions trying to improve the image of their country and business, here's a ********-easy honest way to do it. It would open doors, and be worthwhile for Australia even for you guys who don't seem to care much about the actual dead & injured.
You don't think lending them planes, people, and others resources is a better idea than just handing them over cash? $10m cash is plenty.

Have you not taken into account donations from other countries? And how many lives will $200m bring back?
 

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$100 million? Gawd. $10 million is quite good enough...along with the massive logistical support.

Interesting to see that Bracksy is kicking $1.5 mil out of Victoria's coffers...any news on other states donations?
 

lenny&carl

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You oay people and companies to go over there and help them get things back together. You could spend a lot that way. Looking at it from Machiavellian rather than bleeding-heart perspective, a grand gesture would pay for itself many times over over time.

My suggestion maybe unusual, and won't happen, but I would be happy if they tried it.
 

pazza

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#9
Let's see...

4 Hercules C-130 aircraft, numerous police officers and consular staff to assit those already there (including 2 temporary consulates in Phuket). Throw in heaps of NGO's and the possibility of our military rescue staff..that's a bloody good start.

Corporate support will come..remembering it's a public holiday until midnight. When we all wake up tomorrow, I'm expecting people like BHP to get involved.
 

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#10
There is a limit to how much can be effectively used.

Handing cash over is pointless as there is so little it can buy.

You need to buy food, water, shelter ( etc etc ) and GET IT THERE.

Logistics is the most important part. Remember, it took 2 days before people could do even a basic check on the west coast of Aceh. The C130's are probably worth more than any amount of money we could donate...That's one of the reasons these things are normally done by the military..they have the means/training to get the essentials of life to relatively remote parts.

Perhaps the biggest thing we could do is pressure the Indonesian goverment to let help into Aceh. Of course, after Timor, that could prove a bad move.
 
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#11
My god do you think the UK would be debating the rights or wrongs if the coastline of france was wrecked ?

We need to put in a massive effort because they are our neighbours and need help.

as for the $10m well perhaps its a good start but didn't the bill for rescuing one yachtsman a few years back reach over 1 million ?

I'm sure the government is trying to find the most efficient and compassionate ways to help. If you consider these are coastal cities towns and villages which are devastated then over the coming months the entire countries will have problems.

At the very least we could have our spare miltary units in action. Its not as if any neighbouring countries are in any position to 'invade' us so send as many as possible.
 

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#12
once again Christmas is mentioned in the same breath as Islamic Areas who dont give a toss about christmas

but I do agree a tad more than $10 million in money or medical aid is needed

all though David Koch from sunrise is starting to give me the ********s with his high horse bull********
 

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Pessimistic said:
My god do you think the UK would be debating the rights or wrongs if the coastline of france was wrecked ?

We need to put in a massive effort because they are our neighbours and need help.

.
Do you think the French Military would be concerned? No but I can guarantee the Indonesian Military might take a dim view of Nana Australia coming over and making sure their rooms are clean. Offer the help but dont impose , IMO there are diplomatic issues to be sorted out before we start flying planes etc over. Less than 2 months ago JWH and Downer were talking ''pre-emptive'' action, and how would it be if 3 military planes flew over without diplomatic clearance.

Indonesia is Indonesia not the 8th state of Australia. How would you feel if an aggressive neighbour flew military aircraft into Australias airspace after a massive earthquake along the east coast? You would have some concerns as to motive.
 

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#15
I object to the opinion that money should be given to promote goodwill. Goodwill is stuff all to do with it, it's relieving the injured, stopping disease and rebuilding that it's all about.
As said previously there is only so much that can be done now. At a later stage the big bucks will be needed for rebuilding and a warning system.

And it's not 'Howard'. It's the Australian people who are donating.
 
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#16
PerthCrow said:
Do you think the French Military would be concerned? No but I can guarantee the Indonesian Military might take a dim view of Nana Australia coming over and making sure their rooms are clean. Offer the help but dont impose , IMO there are diplomatic issues to be sorted out before we start flying planes etc over. Less than 2 months ago JWH and Downer were talking ''pre-emptive'' action, and how would it be if 3 military planes flew over without diplomatic clearance.

Indonesia is Indonesia not the 8th state of Australia. How would you feel if an aggressive neighbour flew military aircraft into Australias airspace after a massive earthquake along the east coast? You would have some concerns as to motive.

Well thankfully JWH has the indonesian's phone number these days. I naturally meant they would offer rather than just 'arrive'. You'd hope the aftermath of Bali would have repaired relations somewhat.
 

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#17
Depends what and how we're offering it I guess.

Putting a dollar figure on it isn't really necessary or helpful- and actually donating money is not much help at all, given the massive, systemic corruption within Indonesia. Even if it got all the way through, handing someone who is starving $100AUD doesn't actually help them, they can't eat it.

We should definitely do whatever we can to help no matter how much it costs, but I think that will likely be in the form of medical and humanitarian aid.
 

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Frodo said:
I object to the opinion that money should be given to promote goodwill. Goodwill is stuff all to do with it, it's relieving the injured, stopping disease and rebuilding that it's all about.
Yes I agree that we should help just because they need help, but if you say things like that people think there's something wrong with you! I was mentioning the "what's in it for us" angle because that's all that anyone responds to; and from that angle it is a compelling opportunity. It is certainly a distasteful thing to be saying though, yeah.


As said previously there is only so much that can be done now. At a later stage the big bucks will be needed for rebuilding and a warning system.

And it's not 'Howard'. It's the Australian people who are donating.
True, there is only so that can be done immediately. There are probably still many poor souls alive right now who will certainly be dead tomorrow or next week because there was only so much emergency help to go around. But there's millions of people who need the basics of living for next week, next month etc. Some countries are more able to help themselves, but some have no hope. So I think we do have a moral obligation to go all out helping them as best we can.

And for anyone who objects to this, and doesn't feel a moral obligation, then in your black little hearts :) you should consider the Branson-style PR benefits throughout many of our major strategic and trading partners, that would come from being seen to go all out and help our neighbours...everybody neeeeds goood neighbours.

If one was as easy to do as the other, and both situations were in your face, then I'd rather help some poor bstards who just got their town blown up than buy myself a dvd. What's wrong with me?


Yep, it's Australia not Howard, but he's the guy who can decide to send mega-bucks today. The totals already increased to $35 million. Which is an impressive start. My hunch is the donor countries will be pledging hundred-millions within weeks, (such is the scale of the disaster,) so Aus might as well beat the rush and get some credit.

These devastated areas will remain problems on our doorstep for a long time unless they get put back on their feet a little. It's in Australia's interest to keep upping the ante on the pledges, so as to encourage bigger pledges from USA, EU, China, Japan etc So more help gets into the effected areas. I don't think the USA would want to be seen to be outbid by little Australia in the generosity stakes. So there'd be matching contributions there.

Remember, as far as Australian national security goes, no ones' that worried about Indonesia actually invading militarily, but they are worried about Indonesia falling apart and going totally to s%^*. SO money is always spent to help increase stability in the region. And this is a very big emergency.
 
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#20
lenny&carl said:
Remember, as far as Australian national security goes, no ones' that worried about Indonesia actually invading militarily, but they are worried about Indonesia falling apart and going totally to s%^*. SO money is always spent to help increase stability in the region. And this is a very big emergency.
Good Point. I never meant to imply indonesia would invade us.

I was also thinking about the longer term challenges. It is possible huge amounts of infrastructure (Docks, Fishing fleets etc) are wiped out soinland areas of these countries will suffer too. In thatcase many more populations will be affected and you wonder if ity might be one of the worst disasters ever. As Rudd said it is probably like a war zone in a lot of areas and it will require military type infrastructure to start re-building
 

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#21
I am rather angry at the opinions of one bloke, who wrote the following in today's Herald-Sun.

He basically said that any money we are giving over for this, should be kept in this country, for the benefit of our health and education systems and not to help out in the emergency situation.

It's blokes like that one that make my skin crawl...the title of loser suits him perfectly.
 

lenny&carl

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death toll past 60,000; 100,000 looking very likely. :(

EU pledges 30 million Euros, Japan pledges US$40 million

There must be thousands of miles of coastline effected, when you think about it. How much was populated, who knows. 12 Countries reporting deaths. When water goes 2km inland it might only be a foot high, but that means it's currently 40ft high at the beach, and everyone's stuffed.
 

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#23
lenny&carl said:
YYep, it's Australia not Howard, but he's the guy who can decide to send mega-bucks today. The totals already increased to $35 million. Which is an impressive start. /QUOTE]

A start but, not that impressive

Australia's GDP is over $600 BILLION, repeat BILLION

we should donate a LOT more and in goods (I don't think money handout)

Buy the goods in the country affected.
 

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#24
LAst count Aus had donated 35 million AUD, the US, (population about 15 times larger than AUs, and the biggest economy in the world is donating 35 Million USD, plus about a brigade worth of marines and ships and equipment and time.

A generous offer when they get little but good will from it.

however putting $35 million in perspective, the US spends $177 million every day on the war in Iraq and President Bush's privately funded inauguration next month will cost $40 million.

so they spend more in killing civilians and iraqi defenders to steal iraqi oil than they do to save the lives of the poor and the innocent.

perspective.
 
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