Howe many?

[Vindicater]

Let look at it frame by frame:
0) Starting positions, Howe has just changed directions, previously moving left to right

1) Howe approaches to tackle on an angle

2) Begins going to ground to get lower than the player bending over and as a result loses his footing

3) Has his leg in the air already before fisher begins his spin move and would likely have very little control of what he can do with it as he moves towards the ground

4) Howes foot has not yet touched the ground and he begins to fall back with no hand yet planted to support him

5) Streches out his leg to ground himself. note the swinging motion of the leg is a result of the turning motion from which howe approached the tackle with his outer leg swinging as he falls further back looking to find the ground with his hand.

One could argue that the swinging outer leg acts as a reflexive counter weight to falling backwards. When falling back one's legs tend to go up and not down.

6) You can see that the out streched toe begins to point down to find the ground rather than up in a kicking motion once the hand hits the ground and he no longer is falling back.

7)Were it a swinging trip then there would have been much more force and the kick would have continued through rather than being knocked/pulled back once howe was able to support himself on the ground with his hand.

Perhaps others will interpret this frame by frame differently but at least its there. All this was in the space of one second.

On the matter of severity of the impact, it was clearly a result of the angle from which howe approached the tackle and the natural motion as he fell to the ground. Go to a part and run on an arc and at the same time go low, lose your footing and have no hand to support yourself whilst trying to tackle and see what happens to your outer leg. Does it hang out ?

I would argue this was accidental and not careless. most people in this situation would have their leg act in the same way and it was not careless to go low to avoid a high tackle but rather dutiful.

This is some of the biggest confirmation bias I have ever read.

You can see in pictures four and five his foot swing up and around..

Hawthorn fans are ridiculous on this.

While I don't think he deserved three weeks for it. Trying to argue he was did not trip him is silly.

 

[harrisendblue]

Give it a rest mate your cluelessness about the hawks is very obvious. Get back to me with proper evidence instead of baseless claims.

Mate it was really clear you gave a childish response so cop it on the chin and move on.

 

[harrisendblue]

Disgusting penalty from the Tribunal, but not much you can do when the defence pleads guilty to the only item that could possibly be reviewed. Horrible line of argument by Hawks counsel.

Not much they can do when you critically analyse the footage. He got what he deserved but should have been higher to send a message that you don't kick in football - if you wanna kick go play soccer.

 

[Tex9798]

3 weeks is incredibly harsh, especially for an incident that was not graded intentional and the MRO said was instinctive.

Hawthorn defense was reasonable, what if Fisher had done an ACL, is that extra severe? or severe severe?

I think 1 week would have been sufficient, we should punish the act not the result.

All trips that are of that nature (excluding trips where the player lunges for a tackle and clips a foot accidentally or falls on their foot) should cop a fine.

 

[Rusty Brookes]

Fair enough - once the tribunal went with severe contact three weeks was on the card.

What I am bemused by is (some note not all) the outrage - as has been pointed out Patrick Dangerfield was half a foot away from breaking Jordan Lewis' leg. And Carlton supporters wasn't Jed Lamb suspended last week for eye gouging?

Still bring on the hate - it amuses me.

To quote Ghost on their awesome track See the Light - Everyday that you feed me with hate, I grow stronger

 

[The Joker]

3 weeks..... for that..... get ****ed!

 

[branedotorg]

And Carlton supporters wasn't Jed Lamb suspended last week for eye gouging?

difference is you wont find many blues fans defending lamb for that

 

[Rusty Brookes]

difference is you wont find many blues fans defending lamb for that

Except it's not just Hawthorn supporters thinking he was harshly done by. I'm a Hawthorn supporter that's happy with the decision but can fully see the line of argument that he was a bit stiff.

 

[Vindicater]

Except it's not just Hawthorn supporters thinking he was harshly done by. I'm a Hawthorn supporter that's happy with the decision but can fully see the line of argument that he was a bit stiff.

I am in this camp. He did trip him but I thought it was an instinctive motion to try to stop a good and unexpected move from Fisher.

End result is still a trip so should have gotten a fine.

What blows my mind is the Hawthorn fans trying to deny any trip at all.

 

[MinerBoy]

I am in this camp. He did trip him but I thought it was an instinctive motion to try to stop a good and unexpected move from Fisher.

End result is still a trip so should have gotten a fine.

What blows my mind is the Hawthorn fans trying to deny any trip at all.

Honestly a trip is a deliberate act. It can only be a trip if he's deliberately stuck his leg out to ....well... trip him.

A completely innocent and instinctive movement of the body....essentially a clash of legs due to the movements of both parties.......... isn't a trip in the sense that should be analysed for punishment. It's just an accidental clash.

 

[Vindicater]

Honestly a trip is a deliberate act. It can only be a trip if he's deliberately stuck his leg out to ....well... trip him.

A completely innocent and instinctive movement of the body....essentially a clash of legs due to the movements of both parties.......... isn't a trip in the sense that should be analysed for punishment. It's just an accidental clash.

That is wrong. A trip is still a trip whether instinctual or not.

My opinion is that Howe was caught out by Fishers spin move so he stuck his leg out to bar him. In doing so he tripped him.

I agree he did it on instinct. He didn't think to himself 'oh there is Fisher. If I put my leg out I will trip him up and we can get the ball back' it was simply a reaction to try and stop him. However that instinct was to throw his leg up to catch Fishers leg.

Was a trip.
Was not pre-meditated.
Should have got a fine.

 

[MinerBoy]

That is wrong. A trip is still a trip whether instinctual or not.

My opinion is that Howe was caught out by Fishers spin move so he stuck his leg out to bar him. In doing so he tripped him.

I agree he did it on instinct. He didn't think to himself 'oh there is Fisher. If I put my leg out I will trip him up and we can get the ball back' it was simply a reaction to try and stop him. However that instinct was to throw his leg up to catch Fishers leg.

Was a trip.
Was not pre-meditated.
Should have got a fine.

See I think it's a reaction to simply position himself better.... rather than the leg being used as a stopping tool. Therein lies the difference IMO and why it can be accidental (even if you want to call it a trip) and not suspendable.

So the result was that it 'tripped him' but to me unless the act is actually intended to trip the player (rather than natural body dynamics just causing a clash) then it's just one of those unfortunate contact injuries that happens with no one at fault.

 

[hawkman]

That is wrong. A trip is still a trip whether instinctual or not.

My opinion is that Howe was caught out by Fishers spin move so he stuck his leg out to bar him. In doing so he tripped him.

I agree he did it on instinct. He didn't think to himself 'oh there is Fisher. If I put my leg out I will trip him up and we can get the ball back' it was simply a reaction to try and stop him. However that instinct was to throw his leg up to catch Fishers leg.

Was a trip.
Was not pre-meditated.
Should have got a fine.

Agree with most this except i think he should have got a week.

If you trip someone by foot it should in most cases be a week because it can be dangerous. Tripping is one area where they should be using the potential to cause injury clause

 

[Spook]

Don't think Hawks will make it plus he will play VFL anyway as a fringe player missing 5 games

I thought that we don’t deserve to make it (not in the best 8 teams for the season) but after doing the ladder predictor with us winning 3 of our last 5 we still made the 8. Go and do the predictor and tell me what you get, it would be interesting coming from someone else.

 

[Spook]

Why wasn’t Selwoods trip even looked at by the MRP?

 

[lordbob]

This is some of the biggest confirmation bias I have ever read.

You can see in pictures four and five his foot swing up and around..

Hawthorn fans are ridiculous on this.

While I don't think he deserved three weeks for it. Trying to argue he was did not trip him is silly.

If you read what i wrote you will see images 4-5-6 is where he is falling back to find the ground with his hand. When you fall back your leg goes up.

 

[Strange Cat]

Why wasn’t Selwoods trip even looked at by the MRP?

lack of injuries or the MRP didn’t view it as a trip.

Either way I can’t see how it’s relevebat to Howe behaviour and lack of discipline

 

[slashin_velvet]

An instinctive action does not make it legitimate.

It is instinctive for many players to bump, but if they collect a player high and knock them out, often they'll get weeks.

 

[kaiserchief13]

I thought that we don’t deserve to make it (not in the best 8 teams for the season) but after doing the ladder predictor with us winning 3 of our last 5 we still made the 8. Go and do the predictor and tell me what you get, it would be interesting coming from someone else.

Yeah did the predictor, lucky Hawthorn a pretty easy draw, though they do have a couple of 50-50 games so they may lose them all and miss out on finals

 

[Vindicater]

If you read what i wrote you will see images 4-5-6 is where he is falling back to find the ground with his hand. When you fall back your leg goes up.

And I could counter by saying his leg came up to trip Fisher and that is why his body weight is moving backwards.

 

[Gralin]

lack of injuries or the MRP didn’t view it as a trip.

Either way I can’t see how it’s relevebat to Howe behaviour and lack of discipline

lack of injury is a good starting point, they very much look at the result

plenty of reportable actions happen every week and because either nobody got hurt or the media didn't notice it they just get let go

 

[lordbob]

And I could counter by saying his leg came up to trip Fisher and that is why his body weight is moving backwards.

That would only hold true if it were a natural position to balance leaning to the side with only 1 kneed planted in the ground for balance. Go try and do that yourself and see how long you can maintain that position. it wont be long especially if you are in motion. The natural thing to do is such a situation is to find touch with your hand, and he did that by moving his hand to the ground.

 

[SickQwon]

Let look at it frame by frame:
0) Starting positions, Howe has just changed directions, previously moving left to right

1) Howe approaches to tackle on an angle

2) Begins going to ground to get lower than the player bending over and as a result loses his footing

3) Has his leg in the air already before fisher begins his spin move and would likely have very little control of what he can do with it as he moves towards the ground

4) Howes foot has not yet touched the ground and he begins to fall back with no hand yet planted to support him

5) Streches out his leg to ground himself. note the swinging motion of the leg is a result of the turning motion from which howe approached the tackle with his outer leg swinging as he falls further back looking to find the ground with his hand.

One could argue that the swinging outer leg acts as a reflexive counter weight to falling backwards. When falling back one's legs tend to go up and not down.

6) You can see that the out streched toe begins to point down to find the ground rather than up in a kicking motion once the hand hits the ground and he no longer is falling back.

7)Were it a swinging trip then there would have been much more force and the kick would have continued through rather than being knocked/pulled back once howe was able to support himself on the ground with his hand.

Perhaps others will interpret this frame by frame differently but at least its there. All this was in the space of one second.

On the matter of severity of the impact, it was clearly a result of the angle from which howe approached the tackle and the natural motion as he fell to the ground. Go to a part and run on an arc and at the same time go low, lose your footing and have no hand to support yourself whilst trying to tackle and see what happens to your outer leg. Does it hang out ?

I would argue this was accidental and not careless. most people in this situation would have their leg act in the same way and it was not careless to go low to avoid a high tackle but rather dutiful.

Cool, now do one on how 9/11 was an inside job...

 

[slashin_velvet]

Gotta say thanks to Howe. Knocked some sense into Cripps and got him to re-sign.

 

[harrisendblue]

That would only hold true if it were a natural position to balance leaning to the side with only 1 kneed planted in the ground for balance. Go try and do that yourself and see how long you can maintain that position. it wont be long especially if you are in motion. The natural thing to do is such a situation is to find touch with your hand, and he did that by moving his hand to the ground.

Watch MMA and what he did was a classic sweep kick. Show some class and acknowledge your bloke stuffed up and take the punishment on the chin. That's the old Hawthorn approach alas doesn't seem to be the way with a number of Hawthorn supporters.