Hows Nathan Brown training

[daveyboy3]

Interesting to note that up until the championships i think Mitch was always considered the 'better twin' and i think that even went through to their basketball and rowing.

 

[MarkT]

You're probably thinking of early career form. Nathan definitely started off better than Ryan in the first year or two.

That’s not how I remember it. Ryan got games early and even had kick out duties while Nathan came into the Hawks side alter in the year. Ryan ran out of a bot of steam and Nathan finished off the season better. Ryan played a good finals series in 2002.

Ryan cops a lot and even from Collingwood fans but I’m not one of his critics. He isn’t always used to best advantage though. His brother is played on a wing and that where Ryan is best suited as well IMO. Get into space and kick it to him.

 

[MarkT]

After the Cloke debacle some people still want to create a team of 5 families combined

Debacle? Jason played some good footy, Cameron didn’t make it, although he has a second chance, and Travis looks a quality prospect. From 3 second/third round picks that is far from a debacle – much further away in fact than the balance of the drafting we’ve done in that time frame.

Forget our general drafting in those years though. Would you give up the picks we used for Jason’s 2002 let alone that with the potential Travis shows from here on in? Who was the last decent CHF we drafted? I’ll answer that – we never have. Rocca was a trade and we only went after him because of the family connection and before him the cupboard is as bare and Starcevich and Alan Edwards who was a trade.

 

[MarkT]

We want our next Wakelin and despite the fact that Mitch might end up a defender, we know Nathan will be a KP defender (barring injuries).

So long as Mitch is capable of opening a gap against the best AFL defenders, and so long as Nathan is capable of staying inches away from the best leading forwards is all that sprint results need to indicate.

We may have an opening coming up for a key defender but I hope like hell if N. Brown or anyone else is good enough to play as a key forward we make do at CHB and keep looking. CHF over CHB every time and by a big margin. Name the last CHB that won a club a flag? If N. Brown can play CHB well then I’ll be happy. If his brother can play play CHF well and NB can’t I’ll say we took the wrong bloke until the day I die and that is even if Travis becomes a gun. You can never have to many gun KP forwards but if you think you do then you can always trade one for a CHB, an early draft pick or a competent mid (say our best excluding the old blokes) and lose change.

And that I think that's the crux of the issue when it comes to draft camp results; are they athletically capable for their mooted AFL role? A sub 3 second best time looks pretty, but if they are getting an average in the very low 3's, then they're quick enough (esp if 194/196 cms) and it should come back to footy ability and if even, then pick for need.

Gimme a footballer every time but you do need to keep an eye on athleticism these days. Pace is a valuable commodity but it is pointless if the bloke can't get a kick and use it - Wasley ring a bell? He's probably the anti McGough.

Ever since we drafted Ben Kinnear and sprouted the fact he showed super motor skills results at draft camp I've thought the cap results were massively over rated. I call it Ben Kinnear syndrome. A bloke looks like a player and an athlete and shows some impressive results and clubs parade him at the AGM like he's Geoff Hayward from Tassie. Not much good if he's been up his legless sister and his mother and can't or doesn't want to play.

 

[Vinnie Vegas]

We may have an opening coming up for a key defender but I hope like hell if N. Brown or anyone else is good enough to play as a key forward we make do at CHB and keep looking. CHF over CHB every time and by a big margin. Name the last CHB that won a club a flag? If N. Brown can play CHB well then I’ll be happy. If his brother can play play CHF well and NB can’t I’ll say we took the wrong bloke until the day I die and that is even if Travis becomes a gun. You can never have to many gun KP forwards but if you think you do then you can always trade one for a CHB, an early draft pick or a competent mid (say our best excluding the old blokes) and lose change.

That may all be true, but we have Travis and Rusling developing as key forwards, and recent draftees Ben Reid and Chris Dawes who also project as tall forward options. Not to mention Chris Egan, who's best role might be as a medium-sized leading forward, if the last couple of games of 2006 are any indication.

Nathan Brown MIGHT make a key forward, and considering Malthouse suggesting that he would try John Anthony up forward, he will almost definitely be tried there, but he's much more naturally a key defender.

Just because his brother is a forward doesn't mean he's necessarily going to be of the same value to a team, because I can tell you right now that I would rather have a Glen Jakovich than an Earl Spalding.

 

[Ramere]

That’s not how I remember it. Ryan got games early and even had kick out duties while Nathan came into the Hawks side alter in the year. Ryan ran out of a bot of steam and Nathan finished off the season better. Ryan played a good finals series in 2002.

Ryan cops a lot and even from Collingwood fans but I’m not one of his critics. He isn’t always used to best advantage though. His brother is played on a wing and that where Ryan is best suited as well IMO. Get into space and kick it to him.

That's how I remeber it too, the fact that he got the round 4 Rising Star nomination & won the Best 1st Year Player award at the Pies would also support this view.

 

[beavapleasa]

Having said all that, I too would have Nathan ahead of Mitch but barely.

From your phantom draft you had nathan #20ish and mitch not in your top 50. Obviously your opinion of him has increased from watching him train. What is it that you've seen in him that you didn't see at ballarat u18's (seems like his contested marking has impressed).

fwiw from the games i watched ballarat play i couldn't split them much athletically or football ability so expected them to go in the the same round of the draft as each other, but that is a very very amatuer opinion.

Also you seem to hear a few whispers about west coast recruiting. What whispers have you heard on west coast looking at drafting chris dawes. A poster on extreme black and white who knew a wce scout suggested worsfold was keen to draft him. And the always reliable 'member' from lsd suggested many clubs would be taking dawes 3rd or 4th round. Interested if you had heard anything.

also one for vinnie, read somewhere you placed nathan #6 in your personal draft rankings. where did you have mitch ranked if i may ask?

 

[TOA.]

From your phantom draft you had nathan #20ish and mitch not in your top 50. Obviously your opinion of him has increased from watching him train. What is it that you've seen in him that you didn't see at ballarat u18's (seems like his contested marking has impressed).

fwiw from the games i watched ballarat play i couldn't split them much athletically or football ability so expected them to go in the the same round of the draft as each other, but that is a very very amatuer opinion.

Also you seem to hear a few whispers about west coast recruiting. What whispers have you heard on west coast looking at drafting chris dawes. A poster on extreme black and white who knew a wce scout suggested worsfold was keen to draft him. And the always reliable 'member' from lsd suggested many clubs would be taking dawes 3rd or 4th round. Interested if you had heard anything.

also one for vinnie, read somewhere you placed nathan #6 in your personal draft rankings. where did you have mitch ranked if i may ask?

Firstly, I dont see alot of the draftees first hand. I see some tapes and footage but no where near enough to actually pass judgement on them. My phantom draft didnt reflect how I rated players, more what I had heard and what I envisage might happen based on previous draft trends.

Second, my phantom draft was not well considered. It was put together one night in front of the TV on the laptop. The order was screwed, I didnt have the Lions pick 22 and that threw the whole following order. I would probably have had Mitch 30+ if I didnt make that mistake. He wouldnt have been before 30 though. I make no bones about the fact that Mitch didnt feature prominently in my thinking. And when we did take him I felt somewhat underwhelmed. However, he has impressed me at training and I am hearing good things about him. Although he will be completing yr12 this year at JTC (co-ed school...which could be interesting...I would imagine the girls might come-a-flocking). Hope he doesnt get distracted.

On Dawes, I did hear that muttering about he and WC. Cant remember where, might have even been from lsd itself. Considering we were looking at talls this draft, I would say it was likely he could have been in our thinking. FWIW, he ran 2.99 for the 20m earlier in the year so he is an athlete. Just thought I would pass that on.

And I too would like to see Vinnie's rankings from last years draft.

 

[Vinnie Vegas]

I had Nathan at #6, and Mitch at #16, although given the strength of the draft, there wasn't all that much between them.

The reason I had Nathan higher is that he has shown more aptitude for the position he plays. Nathan has shown more AFL caliber skill as a defender than Mitch has as a forward to this stage. Obviously, their potential is basically the same because of their identical DNA, but Nathan is objectively closer to that potential because he has shown a great ability to read the play from the backline.

As for my rankings, like last year I'm not going to post them for two reasons: I feel no need to prove anything to anyone, and I have seen the crap that people receive for having an opinion.

 

[beavapleasa]

fair enough, thank you both for your opinion

 

[Coin_Toss]

It's got nothing to do with the Brown twins.

I like the look of Dawes. He's very level-headed and serious about his football. He's noted for his third and fourth efforts, and he's built like a monster for someone his age. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say he's similar to Jonathan Brown in the way he approaches "the little things" - Note: I'm not saying he will be the next Jonathan Brown because we all know what happened to Billy Morrison.

I'm very excited to see him get on the park, though. He has something about him which excites me.

 

[ant22]

It's got nothing to do with the Brown twins.

I like the look of Dawes. He's very level-headed and serious about his football. He's noted for his third and fourth efforts, and he's built like a monster for someone his age. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say he's similar to Jonathan Brown in the way he approaches "the little things" - Note: I'm not saying he will be the next Jonathan Brown because we all know what happened to Billy Morrison.

I'm very excited to see him get on the park, though. He has something about him which excites me.

I am not sure how many people saw him interviewed on b and w tv. I was very impressed with his attitude. He said all the right things and seems to have excellent leadership. I suspect this might have gone a fair way in convincing the club to draft him as early as they did. I really hope he recovers because his stats for when he did play where outstanding and he seems(from 1 very brief first impression) like a terrific kid.