Rumour Hugh Greenwood waiting to re-sign!

jackster83

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We're not real keen on our x factor type players are we (McGovern, Cameron, Greenwood)

I wonder if our new analytics stuff in part rates those occasional eye catching things they do as overrated.

The type of thing that is valued and sought after but when added together doesn't add up to as much as you'd think. People get seduced by these moments and overrate the player.
And yet we've brought in a few of these sort of players in recent years - Davis and McAdam at least.

Still, I think Hamish will have a bit more of a licence to look for different types with our picks from the second round onwards. In terms of list needs, it's quality coming through that we need. A few more with either top end pace and/or aerial ability would be nice.
 

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MRB37

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We're not real keen on our x factor type players are we (McGovern, Cameron, Greenwood)

I wonder if our new analytics stuff in part rates those occasional eye catching things they do as overrated.

The type of thing that is valued and sought after but when added together doesn't add up to as much as you'd think. People get seduced by these moments and overrate the player.
Both McGovern and Cameron were contracted and made the move to be traded, not vice-versa.
 
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And yet we've brought in a few of these sort of players in recent years - Davis and McAdam at least.
Stengle too. None of them in the team.

I'm just wondering if stability, consistency, risk-averse players are more where we are going.

Other clubs will spend big on the eye catching stuff and be dazzled by the Tom Lynch (Rich) power forward romantic notion of what wins games.
 

MRB37

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To clubs who valued them higher $$$ than we did
But they signed contracts with us for what we offered and still had years left on their deals. No club offers to pay a guy more while he's under contract for less.

McGovern in particular has yet to prove he's worth what either we paid him, or the increased money he got from Carlton.
 
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But they signed contracts with us for what we offered and still had years left on their deals. No club offers to pay a guy more while he's under contract for less.
They got offered pay rises. We chose to let them go.

We saw them as more valuable as trade chips rather than forcing them to see out their contracts or raising their contracts to what the market was offering.

McGovern in particular has yet to prove he's worth what either we paid him, or the increased money he got from Carlton.
.... that's right.

Which is what I'm saying.

Do we believe that players like McGovern are overvalued by the competition?
 

MRB37

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They got offered pay rises. We chose to let them go.

We saw them as more valuable as trade chips rather than forcing them to see out their contracts or raising their contracts to what the market was offering.


.... that's right.

Which is what I'm saying.

Do we believe that players like McGovern are overvalued by the competition?
We traded them because we never keep players at the club who don't want to be here, regardless of their contract status.
 

MRB37

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Why did we 'fall out' with those particular type of players?
Lever wasn't grouped with those particular type of players. Neither was Danger or Davis or Gunston or Tippett or any of the others. It's not like they're the only two we've ever lost in recent years.

They tried like hell to convince Cameron to stay and didn't relent until he told them flat out he wasn't going to stay.
 

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Lever wasn't grouped with those particular type of players. Neither was Danger or Davis or Gunston or Tippett or any of the others. It's not like they're the only two we've ever lost in recent years.

They tried like hell to convince Cameron to stay and didn't relent until he told them flat out he wasn't going to stay.
It's adding up. McGovern, Cameron, Greenwood, Stengle, McAdam, Davis. Even Fogarty. Cameron's "feedback" that he didn't like.

Maybe it's nothing but seems that players who are a bit unusual or unique aren't in favour. Players who do good stuff but that you can't set your watch by.

Whereas players that bring consistent effort minus the supposed talent (Kelly, Murphy) are becoming regulars.
 

MRB37

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It's adding up. McGovern, Cameron, Greenwood, Stengle, McAdam, Davis. Even Fogarty. Cameron's "feedback" that he didn't like.

Maybe it's nothing but seems that players who are a bit unusual or unique aren't in favour. Players who do good stuff but that you can't set your watch by.

Whereas players that bring consistent effort minus the supposed talent (Kelly, Murphy) are becoming regulars.
Stengle and McAdam both have clear fitness deficiencies ATM that will keep them out until it improves. Davis did nothing until this year to suggest he deserved a game either. We went out and purposefully recruited both of Stengle and McAdam, it just sounds weird to suggest there's some sort of conspiracy to keep them out.

Guess what issue Greenwood had that kept him out of the side earlier in the year? He was dropped for one game that Pyke described in the post match presser as wanting to freshen him up. Just think people are getting ahead of themselves and suggestions we don't rate Greenwood are ludicrous given the amount of football he's played over the last 18 months.

Cameron never shirked defensive responsibilities and consistently gave second and third efforts. Until Stengle learns that then he's not going to be a first up selection every week.
 
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Stengle and McAdam both have clear fitness deficiencies ATM that will keep them out until it improves. Davis did nothing until this year to suggest he deserved a game either. We went out and purposefully recruited both of Stengle and McAdam, it just sounds weird to suggest there's some sort of conspiracy to keep them out.

Guess what issue Greenwood had that kept him out of the side earlier in the year? He was dropped for one game that Pyke described in the post match presser as wanting to freshen him up. Just think people are getting ahead of themselves and suggestions we don't rate Greenwood are ludicrous given the amount of football he's played over the last 18 months.

Cameron never shirked defensive responsibilities and consistently gave second and third efforts. Until Stengle learns that then he's not going to be a first up selection every week.
Yep - and all this is agreeing with exactly what I'm saying.

High priorities to us - ability to run, discipline, defence

Low priorities to us - moments of brilliance, high skill level

Have we decided that the former category - whilst unfashionable - wins games. Whereas the latter category is highly sought after and valued throughout the competition but ultimately is all sizzle, no steak.
 

Samcro24

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Yep - and all this is agreeing with exactly what I'm saying.

High priorities to us - ability to run, discipline, defence

Low priorities to us - moments of brilliance, high skill level

Have we decided that the former category - whilst unfashionable - wins games. Whereas the latter category is highly sought after and valued throughout the competition but ultimately is all sizzle, no steak.
Well there’s Eddie.

But where the skilled players don’t execute on a consistent basis, then yes I think you’re right in saying the club doesn’t rate that.
 

119others

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We're not real keen on our x factor type players are we (McGovern, Cameron, Greenwood)

I wonder if our new analytics stuff in part rates those occasional eye catching things they do as overrated.

The type of thing that is valued and sought after but when added together doesn't add up to as much as you'd think. People get seduced by these moments and overrate the player.
That’s a very interesting question, especially if other teams are prepared to overpay which both Blues and Lions seemingly did (both with reported $ and in picks traded).

That said, CC has gone to another level and perhaps this was natural progression for a non-AFL background player.
 

119others

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Yep - and all this is agreeing with exactly what I'm saying.

High priorities to us - ability to run, discipline, defence

Low priorities to us - moments of brilliance, high skill level

Have we decided that the former category - whilst unfashionable - wins games. Whereas the latter category is highly sought after and valued throughout the competition but ultimately is all sizzle, no steak.
Our most recent highest draftees absolutely tick the first box. The tigers playbook. Unfortunately the way the game is trending.

Would Diesel Williams and the Jarmans of this world thrive in modern day footy built for athletes.
 

Golumless

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Yep - and all this is agreeing with exactly what I'm saying.

High priorities to us - ability to run, discipline, defence

Low priorities to us - moments of brilliance, high skill level

Have we decided that the former category - whilst unfashionable - wins games. Whereas the latter category is highly sought after and valued throughout the competition but ultimately is all sizzle, no steak.
Quite possibly we have opted for the mantra that defence, and consistency wins football games. Suits how we're playing right now.

That said, it's probably a nothing thought at the moment seeing Greenwood has more then likely been completely overtaken by a rampant CEY, McGovern was becoming very cancerous (I'd be confident we did everything we could as we did overpay him to keep him in 2017) and Cameron, well that one is **** up.

Or it's potentially the ghost of 2017 where one of the best attacks to exist in this league period got stifled by well, that.
 

1970crow

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Stengle too. None of them in the team.

I'm just wondering if stability, consistency, risk-averse players are more where we are going.

Other clubs will spend big on the eye catching stuff and be dazzled by the Tom Lynch (Rich) power forward romantic notion of what wins games.
It’s been like that since Neil Craig. Experience and continuity will eventually get the result.
 

1970crow

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But they signed contracts with us for what we offered and still had years left on their deals. No club offers to pay a guy more while he's under contract for less.

McGovern in particular has yet to prove he's worth what either we paid him, or the increased money he got from Carlton.
Why not, if their value rises after a great year (not that CC or Gov had one) and other clubs come knocking, why not review their value to your organisation. You do that every day of the week. What you don’t do is pay them bucketloads more than you value them because some krud club with heaps of cap to burn offers them huge overs.
 

hey shorty

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How so? Limited possession and high impact (that's the definition of X-factor), and was what he did last night, and he been playing like that since getting in the side.
No, he's just a limited possession player. CEY does mostly similar things and I don't see people calling him x factor.
 

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Yep - and all this is agreeing with exactly what I'm saying.

High priorities to us - ability to run, discipline, defence

Low priorities to us - moments of brilliance, high skill level

Have we decided that the former category - whilst unfashionable - wins games. Whereas the latter category is highly sought after and valued throughout the competition but ultimately is all sizzle, no steak.
Do you believe what you write ??
 

1970crow

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Greenwood's most valuable traits are fantastic tackler, great hands and can take a grab. Wouldn't really call him X factor. Still, they're traits you want at the club.
He has a big impact whilst not being an accumulator. Not sure it’s X factor, but the result of his actions when in the contest is greater than the vast majority of players.
 
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