Rumour Hugh Greenwood waiting to re-sign!

May 24, 2006
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As you note, there's only one Charlie.

I'd challenge that we don't back in the freakish over the defensive. I reckon the only reason Atkins is getting a game is because of the fact that every 2nd week he'll do one thing that's magic. Similar Seeds, who's been down since he came back but can still bomb one through from miles out. And Murphy's ability to mik a free out of virtually no contact is it's own kind of freakish.
Was thinking about Atkins and how we all tear our hair out for his missed tackles, lack of contested stuff, perceived softness. Yet he's picked every week.

I'd imagine 'the numbers' stress the importance of balance for inside and outside players. The ability to find space, play a role in transition from D50 to I50, find uncontested ball, outlet option. A wingman willing to be at the bottom of packs may pass the fans courage 'eye test' but not be what we are after.

One thing that really leapt out from that interview was that he was doing some stuff with contracts. So existing players are somewhere in the focus, not just prospective draftees.
 

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Thinking about it some more, I think a lot comes down to the fact we can no longer bank on the likes of Tex, Betts, Jenkins, Atkins and even Smith bringing their A game every week. If those guys were all still at their 2017 level, I think we'd be more willing to "carry" guys who might go missing. The aforementioned have become the icing instead of the cake. Instead we seem to be looking for guys who at worst won't disgrace themselves. This means we play the likes of Murphy, Knight and Douglas ahead of Stengle, Davis, etc.
Good point.

Back on Greenwood, we all love him and can't understand him not being an automatic inclusion every week. I'd have him as our 10th most important and best player outside of Sloane, Lynch, Crouch, Crouch, Walker, Betts, Talia, Smith and Laird. Maybe tied with Brown.

Yet he's seemingly on the fringes now.

We see him pull down that grab in Q4 and that's why we love him. You can overlook the quiet patches because of those crunch moments.

To us fans it's in part about what they can do, what they might do, what they sometimes do.

Whereas 'the numbers' might purely look at what they do do.

What do the players do all or most of the time? And judge them on that.

On Greenwood - some great moments limited by what his always injury-affected preseasons allow.

A bit like draftees, it's easy to be sold on their highlight reel.
 

1970crow

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Pyke said as much in the post match pressure.

They had omitted Mackay & Greenwood to have some fresh legs ready for the Richmond game, but that didn't go as anticipated with the late withdrawal of Lynch.
They weren’t omitted for that reason at all. They were omitted from SANFL so they’d have fresh legs if we picked up an injury or need to drop an underperformer, ie Seedsman or Dougie who could both be dropped. They weren’t managed so they’d be first selected against Richmond, they’ll need injury or form related dropping to push their way in.
 

Crow till I die

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They weren’t omitted for that reason at all. They were omitted from SANFL so they’d have fresh legs if we picked up an injury or need to drop an underperformer, ie Seedsman or Dougie who could both be dropped. They weren’t managed so they’d be first selected against Richmond, they’ll need injury or form related dropping to push their way in.
The bye is coming at a very good time after this week..Seed looks like he could use a spell (extra rest for his knee which from the outside seems to be limiting his running power a bit). Greenwood gets a rest as do all the prime movers. We just need to get over Richmond and then enjoy the bye and we are set for a big 2nd half of the season sitting at hopefully 8-5
 

Sanders

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I just don't play crowd favs like some posters now do I
No one agrees with you on virtually anything

There are only 2 possible explanations for this

So my question is: do you consider yourself a genius
 

marvin

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Good point.

Back on Greenwood, we all love him and can't understand him not being an automatic inclusion every week. I'd have him as our 10th most important and best player outside of Sloane, Lynch, Crouch, Crouch, Walker, Betts, Talia, Smith and Laird. Maybe tied with Brown.

Yet he's seemingly on the fringes now.
That's probably about right. One factor is that there's not a massive gap between current, slightly underdone Greenwood and the next 6-8 players (lets say in no particular order, Milera, Jenkins, Keath, Jenkins, CEY, the ruck of the day and Seedsman) so you could argue that he's in our bottom 6 and make a good case. On your list, he ranks as the 4th or 5th most important midfielder or the 4th most important forward. Couple that with the almost unprecedented lack of injuries we have at the moment and High seems more peripheral than he actually is.

We see him pull down that grab in Q4 and that's why we love him. You can overlook the quiet patches because of those crunch moments.

To us fans it's in part about what they can do, what they might do, what they sometimes do.

Whereas 'the numbers' might purely look at what they do do.

What do the players do all or most of the time? And judge them on that.

On Greenwood - some great moments limited by what his always injury-affected preseasons allow.

A bit like draftees, it's easy to be sold on their highlight reel.
We are in complete agreement that Greenwood would be an automatic inclusion in any Crows side you or I pick. However, you've articulated something key there.

If we get too hung up on what a player can do, we'd still have Sam Kerridge and Brad Moran running around.

If the data analysis is any good, it will factor in the 95% of the game the player it is looking at does not have the ball. In large part, the omissions this year of Jenkins and Gibbs are related to what they do (or don't do) without the ball. Sometimes that's obvious, like when a midfielder blows past with no chase or pressure. More often than not it's a bit more subtle, like blowing the set up at a centre bounce by moving the wrong way, or not clearing out the space a teammate is going to lead into - the sort of thing that does a coach's head in but is hard to pck up from the stands or couch.
 

Grenville

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That's probably about right. One factor is that there's not a massive gap between current, slightly underdone Greenwood and the next 6-8 players (lets say in no particular order, Milera, Jenkins, Keath, Jenkins, CEY, the ruck of the day and Seedsman) so you could argue that he's in our bottom 6 and make a good case. On your list, he ranks as the 4th or 5th most important midfielder or the 4th most important forward. Couple that with the almost unprecedented lack of injuries we have at the moment and High seems more peripheral than he actually is.



We are in complete agreement that Greenwood would be an automatic inclusion in any Crows side you or I pick. However, you've articulated something key there.

If we get too hung up on what a player can do, we'd still have Sam Kerridge and Brad Moran running around.

If the data analysis is any good, it will factor in the 95% of the game the player it is looking at does not have the ball. In large part, the omissions this year of Jenkins and Gibbs are related to what they do (or don't do) without the ball. Sometimes that's obvious, like when a midfielder blows past with no chase or pressure. More often than not it's a bit more subtle, like blowing the set up at a centre bounce by moving the wrong way, or not clearing out the space a teammate is going to lead into - the sort of thing that does a coach's head in but is hard to pck up from the stands or couch.
Nick Gill :)
 

Geoffa32

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With Milera getting more midfield time and the coaches favouring CEY (he is a better midfielder) as the big bodied mid I can see why there is a delay in him being offered a contract.

He may very well not be best 22 anymore. Such is the evolution of our team this year.

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mtbkym

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With Milera getting more midfield time and the coaches favouring CEY (he is a better midfielder) as the big bodied mid I can see why there is a delay in him being offered a contract.

He may very well not be best 22 anymore. Such is the evolution of our team this year.

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And 1 injury to any of them and he is best (available) 22 again. Sign him up
 

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Geoffa32

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And 1 injury to any of them and he is best (available) 22 again. Sign him up
That makes him depth. I would love to keep him. But it really comes down to him and CEY for best 22, with M Crouch the other slower mid. And why would he stay here for that.

A month ago I would not have thought this. But our midfield operates better without him in there and CEY as that big bodied option who floats forward.

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mtbkym

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That makes him depth. I would love to keep him. But it really comes down to him and CEY for best 22. And why would he stay here for that.

A month ago I would not have thought this. But our midfield operates better without him in there and CEY as that big bodied option who floats forward.

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Because he wants to stay here, the thread title says he's waiting to re-sign. I'm not arguing that right now that he's a better option than CEY, just that he's a crow now, and wants to stay a crow, so we should be signing him (responsibly)
 

Peter J

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You're going back a decade in some cases here

This thinking (if it even exists) is relatively new

Most recently there were lifestyle reasons for Sloane, Lynch to go back home, as strong or stronger than any of the others

This season we're selecting what I would regard as a fairly boring team with a defence that lacks rebound and a forward line/midfield that has left some of the more exciting weapons in the shed.
I think your last paragraph is spot on, and it’s intentional.

We’ve moved away from flair, high scoring - 2017.

We’re becoming Sydney. Slow movement, march forward, win a contest and hold territory. Ugly.

Who would have thought we could hold GWS to 3 goals at half time - here we are.

This may have developed to suit what we see as our current strengths. Losing Cameron and McG may have helped kick that off - or if it was a longer term plan maybe their kind of pizzazz was seen as expendable.
 

1970crow

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With Milera getting more midfield time and the coaches favouring CEY (he is a better midfielder) as the big bodied mid I can see why there is a delay in him being offered a contract.

He may very well not be best 22 anymore. Such is the evolution of our team this year.

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I think that if he had CEY's engine he'd be in our top handful of players. Building it from his late start was always going to be a challenge and when you add that every preseason seems to have been interrupted, it's nigh on impossible.
 

Kane McGoodwin

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Because he wants to stay here, the thread title says he's waiting to re-sign. I'm not arguing that right now that he's a better option than CEY, just that he's a crow now, and wants to stay a crow, so we should be signing him (responsibly)
CEY is the player we should be looking to trade at the end of the year, with his value rising.

We still have Polholke as depth, along with Jones likely to play more games next year.
 

MRB37

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I think your last paragraph is spot on, and it’s intentional.

We’ve moved away from flair, high scoring - 2017.

We’re becoming Sydney. Slow movement, march forward, win a contest and hold territory. Ugly.

Who would have thought we could hold GWS to 3 goals at half time - here we are.

This may have developed to suit what we see as our current strengths. Losing Cameron and McG may have helped kick that off - or if it was a longer term plan maybe their kind of pizzazz was seen as expendable.
Seems to me it's more of a response to opposition tactics to deny us the corridor and block up our attempts for fast ball movement. The game plan has evolved to being more possession based and picking spots, rather than run and gun any time we get the ball in our hands. The 17 GF exposed a lot of flaws and it was obvious that Pyke needed to change things up as there really wasn't anyway to improve our scoring output, so our defensive work needed to get better.

That started last year, partly based on not having Smith we went for more of a short kicking game. We've managed to be fairly consistent with our 22 this year again, so it's started to evolve agin and click a bit more. The missing ingredient at the moment is efficiency going forward. 53 entries for 12 goals isn't great, but it is manageable if limit opposition scoring. The forward line has been a big work in progress since Teague left and our entries have become slower, it was bad with Francou and seems to have gotten worse with Ben Hart, so that's one area i'd look for them to try and find a very accomplished forwards coach next year. I think we're currently learning slightly too far towards defense, but it's still a work in progress and we gotta work with what we gotta work with there.
 

chazwazza

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I think your last paragraph is spot on, and it’s intentional.

We’ve moved away from flair, high scoring - 2017.

We’re becoming Sydney. Slow movement, march forward, win a contest and hold territory. Ugly.

Who would have thought we could hold GWS to 3 goals at half time - here we are.

This may have developed to suit what we see as our current strengths. Losing Cameron and McG may have helped kick that off - or if it was a longer term plan maybe their kind of pizzazz was seen as expendable.
I think you can put a fair bit of this down to Mattner’s inclusion as an assistant, Sturt won two flags shutting teams down.....perfected in the GF against Port Power Reserves.
 

Peter J

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CEY is the player we should be looking to trade at the end of the year, with his value rising.

We still have Polholke as depth, along with Jones likely to play more games next year.
He’s a FA.

Only value will be to continue getting a belated return on the 8 years we’ve put into him
 

1970crow

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Unpopular opinion perhaps, but I reckon Hugh is a member of the gold pass club
He was dropped just last week and also had to gain fitness in the 2s before playing 1s in the first place. I’m not sure he really qualifies except for carrying him injured into the 2017 finals series.
 

Kane McGoodwin

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He’s a FA.

Only value will be to continue getting a belated return on the 8 years we’ve put into him
Ok, but there is still FA compo.

We really need to get our list management right. We have Polholke playing career best football. Also, Jones & McHenry should be making more of an impact next year. The further development of Gooch likely to be pushing for more midfield minutes. Then hopefully the cherry on chop should be a gun midfielder from a top #2 pick.

We need to make room to start bringing through our last few years early draft picks, which means we may need to move on a couple of players with less upside.
 
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