Unsolved Hunt for Mr Cruel

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JWS2019

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Nov 30, 2019
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The dwelling where Mr cruel took the victims, had at least 3 rooms, Detective Ron also described a chunky lounge suite in a living area.
Ron also talks about a suspect, who had done his shed up to look like a dweling. What the chance of an offender to building a "film set" like area, in his shed?
Its more likely he used a small home or flat?. (small bath room with basin next to the toilet)

The victims are the key to finding its location.. Police should have asked the following questions, to pinpoint the dwellings area
whats the approximate travel time from your home to the offenders address? (10 min 20 min 1hr etc)
did he continually make left or right turns, possibly extending the travel time?
did you stop for lengthy periods at say traffic lights? (main road)
did you travel across any railway tracks, double or single?
did you stop at any railway crossings waiting for a train? what did the train sound like, small passenger or large goods train?
did you smell anything along the way, bakery or farmland?
did he drive eratically or steady?
did he drive on any dirt roads?
did he drive up any steep hills or down into any creek crossings?
did you hear large trucks on the road? (main road)
did you hear light aircraft or heavy flying over? (Flight path)

Given the approx travel time and sounds along the way. it is possible to pinpoint the rough location
On the flight path, was it not assumed that they potentially disregarded smaller airports (I.e. Morabbin and Essendon) I’m also of the thought that my family home was not necessarily on the flight path but was noisy if an aircraft was flying in the vicinity?
 

johnymac1

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On the use of “bozo” unusual Australian speech but I had a thought, “the wonder years TV sitcom/show” not sure if this term was used in the show, but it was permanent fixture on the tv in my family growing up. Potentially americanised terms or slang.

Also looking back it was apparently a term used commonly in WW1, therefore maybe a learned speech from someone at about Mr Cruel’s estimated age range.

I do recall this age range using this terminology perhaps more around a younger audience.

To be honest I think too much energy was put into this thought process however it may or may not have spurred an insight into someone who used these words.
A quote from Telly Savalas? or maybe Don Rickles?
In recent times, around 1991, it was used in a Terminator II movie
 

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Bowakawa

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He's certainly #1 suspect. Among the thousands they started with. He's that for a reason.
The balaclava and knife being found in his roof, the fact that wherever he moved to until the 90s unsolved home invasions would occur, the near identical MO... the main thing I wonder is whether Elkner caused any bodily injuries to his victims in the 70s, because as disgusting as Mr. Cruel is/was, he wasn't 'violent' in that he didn't exhibit sadistic behaviour to his victims. I read that it's theorized by criminal psychologists that he wouldn't have considered himself to be doing harm to his victims and that killing Karmein Chan might've shattered that delusion. Elkner's writings on the 'sublime criminal' - sublime meaning the strongest possible emotion that humans can experience, makes me believe that he fits the profile of someone that would believe what he was doing was 'romantic' in his twisted, delusional way.

I never realised how close I grew up to the vicinity of some of the crimes, has made me look back on some creepy encounters I had as a kid with grown men. Most of them at Ringwood pools.
 

JWS2019

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He's certainly #1 suspect. Among the thousands they started with. He's that for a reason.
I see how he could be a suspect - but I don’t like him for the suspect although I can’t explain why. I feel they could have proved it, if it was him.

Also if some or any of the suspected Other related crimes are in fact legitimate, he was in jail for some of that time.
 

JWS2019

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I’ve been looking through a very small sample of old courts records from the 70’s-80’s and wow the list is endless of these disgusting predators.. many with similar MO’s breaking into houses in the middle of the night. Perhaps just more common in this time period - pre CTV etc.
 

JWS2019

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Was just reading more about Mr Cruel here https://melbinmarvels.com/ and saw this little snippet. Has a ring of familiarity to it, ie, Claremont killings, not that Edwards would be Mr Cruel.

View attachment 1107582
Must also say thanks to Melbourne Marvel - whomever you are. Some really good intensive investigation as Mr Cruel really was set in between online information and discussion.
 

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johnymac1

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Must also say thanks to Melbourne Marvel - whomever you are. Some really good intensive investigation as Mr Cruel really was set in between online information and discussion.
MelbourneMarvels picks up on the Electricity theme. Was Karmein was found anywhere near a sub station?? But from memory it was lit area!
Mr Cruel might have also picked those locations because his car looks like a so called "work car/truck"
Or he may have just selected those locations because they were well lit.
 

Kurve

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MelbourneMarvels picks up on the Electricity theme. Was Karmein was found anywhere near a sub station?? But from memory it was lit area!
Karmein was left on the scrubby land just outside the lit up area of the sub station/same block. My family had a business between 250 and about 400m from where she was found. I remember it well because there was a terrible smell that came in on the wind and Dad was going up and down the driveway looking in our industrial waste bins trying to work out what it was. He wondered if someone had dumped a carcass in one of them. I remember that clearly.

Around the same time, someone had a sheep or a goat in the back of one of the factories and it had gone missing. The owner came in and saw my dog there, started carrying on about loose dogs being responsible for killing it. Someone must have stolen his sheep or it got loose and ran away. It was the unsettling smell of death rot that many in the area caught a sniff of in the wind but none of us ever worked out what it was, except I think the guy who assumed it was his sheep when it wasn't. Then it went away and later, Karmein was found.

I don't recall seeing a car ever going over that ground either so it occurred to me that Karmein's killer probably walked her in.
 

johnymac1

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When I try to picture Mr Cruel, I see Martin Bryant..... a strange observation I know.
Thats how I picture Mr Cruel, a non functional loner. With a lot of spare time on his hands with access to cars and guns.
 

johnymac1

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Karmein was left on the scrubby land just outside the lit up area of the sub station/same block. My family had a business between 250 and about 400m from where she was found. I remember it well because there was a terrible smell that came in on the wind and Dad was going up and down the driveway looking in our industrial waste bins trying to work out what it was. He wondered if someone had dumped a carcass in one of them. I remember that clearly.

Around the same time, someone had a sheep or a goat in the back of one of the factories and it had gone missing. The owner came in and saw my dog there, started carrying on about loose dogs being responsible for killing it. Someone must have stolen his sheep or it got loose and ran away. It was the unsettling smell of death rot that many in the area caught a sniff of in the wind but none of us ever worked out what it was, except I think the guy who assumed it was his sheep when it wasn't. Then it went away and later, Karmein was found.

I don't recall seeing a car ever going over that ground either so it occurred to me that Karmein's killer probably walked her in.
so there are some supply authority links between the crimes,
 

Bowakawa

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When I try to picture Mr Cruel, I see Martin Bryant..... a strange observation I know.
Thats how I picture Mr Cruel, a non functional loner. With a lot of spare time on his hands with access to cars and guns.
I tend to disagree since Bryant is functionally ******ed and MrC is a meticulous, calculated operator.
 

JWS2019

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This ome will be solved supposedly soon with a stitch up like Clermont it’s funny when you control the media police and the national game anything is possible 😛
What r we saying ? Claremont is a false conviction? Or just me cruel will be solved by accidental DNA confirmation?
 

JWS2019

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Karmein was left on the scrubby land just outside the lit up area of the sub station/same block. My family had a business between 250 and about 400m from where she was found. I remember it well because there was a terrible smell that came in on the wind and Dad was going up and down the driveway looking in our industrial waste bins trying to work out what it was. It was around the time of Ramadan and he wondered if someone had dumped a carcass in one of them. I remember that clearly.

Around the same time, someone had a sheep or a goat in the back of one of the factories and it had gone missing. The owner came in and saw my dog there, started carrying on about loose dogs being responsible for killing it. Someone must have stolen his sheep or it got loose and ran away. It was the unsettling smell of death rot that many in the area caught a sniff of in the wind but none of us ever worked out what it was, except I think the guy who assumed it was his sheep when it wasn't. Then it went away and later, Karmein was found.

I don't recall seeing a car ever going over that ground either so it occurred to me that Karmein's killer probably walked her in.
Oh wow Kurve! Close connection and fellow melbournian!
Trully awful and worse what your family was close to.

I think dumb luck with Mr cruel as I said so many sickos doing similar things., not sure we’ll get a resolution from this one..: but fingers crossed!
 

JWS2019

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Further so many similar crimes... some couldn’t possibly be mr cruel - IMO must have something on this prick to rule some out...
 

Iworkthecircus

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What r we saying ? Claremont is a false conviction? Or just me cruel will be solved by accidental DNA confirmation?
Both cases have alterations to suit the agenda .
police forces around the world and the judicial aren’t free from corruption, what makes Australia Any different ...
you are well and truly indoctrinated if you think Australia doesn’t have these ailments.
 

Kurve

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Oh wow Kurve! Close connection and fellow melbournian!
Trully awful and worse what your family was close to.

I think dumb luck with Mr cruel as I said so many sickos doing similar things., not sure we’ll get a resolution from this one..: but fingers crossed!
Agree, I suspect it was dumb luck with Cruel that he appears to have got away with that series of crimes.

It was a bit curious, serial killer Peter Dupas was active attacking women from that side of town and used to frequent the hotel directly across the road from where Karmein was found. It had busy car parks front and rear so that might be somewhere Cruel could park his car and not get noticed before walking Karmein in. It was a few years after Karmein that Dupas was grabbed for murder but he knew that area well and was actually arrested in the carpark of the pub. I don't think Dupas has ever been on the police radar for Cruel's crimes/murder and he wasn't as forensically cautious as Cruel but he is the prime suspect in other murders through the 80s and 90s. Police also found PVC tape and a ski mask at his house.
 

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