Unsolved Hunt for Mr Cruel

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Kurve

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Dec 27, 2016
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Ive always wondered what he was covering up in the cupboard / bookshelf. Was a collection of some kind?

Could have been identifying items, like photographs, book collection or videos. Although why he went to so much effort through the series to merely throw a cover over a furniture item is a bit odd when he could simply have removed it all and packed it away out of sight entirely in his preparations.

Hidden camera? Hole in the wall behind it maybe so he could spy? I should remember this but it's lost information atm, was it the same girl who saw the camera on a tripod that noticed the cover on the cupboard? Nicola Lynas?
 

johnymac1

Team Captain
Nov 6, 2019
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Could have been identifying items, like photographs, book collection or videos. Although why he went to so much effort through the series to merely throw a cover over a furniture item is a bit odd when he could simply have removed it all and packed it away out of sight entirely in his preparations.

Hidden camera? Hole in the wall behind it maybe so he could spy? I should remember this but it's lost information atm, was it the same girl who saw the camera on a tripod that noticed the cover on the cupboard? Nicola Lynas?
If I would hazard a guess, I would say record collection. Possibly a player sitting on the top shelf.
The description of the room, matches a younger persons room, all newish furniture, for the period. For example there are no antique furniture of wardrobes noted. All pastels matching the period of the 80s-90s.
Whoever owned the room had some means and hadn't inherited grannies old bed and wardrobe.
Just some observations

On a side note, the victim suggests he wasn't much taller than herself. selecting a height under170 cms.
 

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MauroFogheri

Fill the crucible
Jun 14, 2017
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Running hard on the electrical substation theory. And a Liz Hayes clanger "in an upmarket part of Canterbury..." 😕
 

SquiffyRae

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Sep 28, 2020
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Yeah UI definitely went all in on the electrical substation theory

They also seem to be suggesting Groundskeeper Willie may be Mr Cruel. Or at least that's all my brain could see looking at the identikit
 

Butters and Pepper

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Sep 18, 2020
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He would surely have to be dead (or in jail now), or perhaps stopped offending when he heard about DNA evidence in mid 90s.

 

metic

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Hunting Mr Cruel :
https://youtu.be/Jaq001Evc§c

This is the UI program with Liz Hayes
 

SquiffyRae

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He would surely have to be dead (or in jail now), or perhaps stopped offending when he heard about DNA evidence in mid 90s.


Trying to remember whether I read it earlier in this thread or elsewhere but don't Victoria Police have a suspect they're fairly confident about just without the hard evidence to prove it who has since died?
 

jason_recliner

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Dec 9, 2020
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Hunting Mr Cruel :
https://youtu.be/Jaq001Evc§c

This is the UI program with Liz Hayes
It was a bit strange that the brothers weren't interviewed. I wonder why they didn't want to be part of the show? Was the sketch based on the sister's second hand description?

Did they contact police at the time? If not, what a shame.
 

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johnymac1

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Nov 6, 2019
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I didn't get much out of the UI show. Their new found software didn't narrow down the location. They went on and on about it
But I still think he lived near Victim #1 who happens to be close to a flight path.
Geographical profiling has been around for a while.

Their witness, describes a suspect, but he could be the local idiot or peeper

The Substation thing, I'm not convinced its his work place. More like a landmark he's chosen.
Its structure he's familiar with, but for all we know, he may have been the local graffiti artist or some thing. Tagging utilities as a kid or young adult.
The High School location is interesting, the high located near to one of the dump sites, Did he go to school there?. Did he walk along the path as a kid.?
Utilities usually have some security lighting, possibly why he used them as dump sites. He certainly has some familiarity to the area.

Mr C, modified his MO over time, Making improvements. Like going from tape to copper wire. Selecting a home where no adults are home.
there is some doubt in my mind, that the Chan murder was down to MR C. The tagging of the Chan's car and a few other aspects are red flags for me.
As the detective points out, why the three shots? Was it a copy Cat?
The first victim was most likely selected in a different way to the last two. For instance the last two are linked by the uniform.

We need to find him!!. I strongly feel he's hiding out in an Asian country
Its clear the UI program borrowed from the great work done by the Bloggers
 

MauroFogheri

Fill the crucible
Jun 14, 2017
435
554
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Collingwood
The last Adam Shand effort was much more thorough, including positing the theory that the aeroplane noises were audio recordings, and at least referring to possible gangland paybacks connected to the father (which Sylvester probably wanted to last night given he thinks Karmein Chan's killing is unrelated to the others). A lot was contradictory last night, like for instance if you admit from the outset that the offender is of above average intelligence, a lot of hypotheses should drop away, like if he indeed was a linesman, why would he do something as stupid as constantly featuring those locations in the crimes, knowing the workforce is easily traceable and pretty finite?
 

SquiffyRae

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Sep 28, 2020
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A lot was contradictory last night, like for instance if you admit from the outset that the offender is of above average intelligence, a lot of hypotheses should drop away

I think one of the biggest downfalls of these programs made for commercial television is that too often they want to sensationalise stuff. Under Investigation reminds me a lot of ACA or 60 Minutes. It's the same stupid overly dramatic way of telling every story that gets grating.

They can sensationalise the Mr Cruel story a lot more if they make him out to be some sort of evil genius. Rather than being your run of the mill predator with a half decent understanding of forensics, he has to be this evil genius who spends all his time planning his next assault. It lets them turn Mr Cruel into a bigger boogeyman than he actually is (or was). It's all ratings bait. The same thing happened with the Claremont Serial Killer. You had all these people insisting to get away with it he had to be this genius who planned his every move and then he turns out to be an extremely average telecom technician.

Funnily enough, UI's hypothesis works better with Mr Cruel being an average Joe. If you accept he's an average predator who started in proximity to his own home and then branched out. That he might be a linesman with a power company and used that to help him plan attacks. That the connection is because he feels comfortable with these places. That he's dumb enough to take victims back to his home that is easily identifiable by planes flying low overhead. That he's dumb enough to let his victims see the interior of his home so long as they don't see him. That would all make sense. Enough planning to not get caught but not enough planning to fully cover his tracks.

The evil genius UI want to portray him as would work more in favour of the other hypotheses. That he might have had a decoy house. That the plane noises might have been recordings.

In my opinion, too many people try to overestimate serial killers and predators. Most of them are very, very average people who have a sick mind. They're not evil geniuses from a movie. And especially in the days before DNA analysis was widespread, they didn't need to be. There are some genuine morons out there who have definitely got away with murder
 

Kurve

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Dec 27, 2016
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The brothers contacted the police and were later interviewed so officially they're witnesses and would have been discouraged from speaking to the media, either by the police or even UI. It seems so unlikely but if Cruel is ever arrested, they might be needed in court.
 

SquiffyRae

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I'm still wondering what that breakthrough software told us they we didn't already know.
Nothing but they get to say fancy words like GEOGRAPHIC INFORMATION SYSTEM and sound smart. It sounds sciencey so it must be good!

GIS isn't even that new or that revolutionary. I got taught the basics of it in my undergrad degree. Most surveyors worth their salt these days are experts in it. All it really is is a method for displaying desired information over a map to show up patterns. We could've started our own YouTube channel, got someone to create a custom Google Map and got the same results for 1/1000th the budget.

It showed absolutely nothing new. Victoria Police had probably done something similar with physical or digital maps back in the day. All it was was making pretty pictures from what we already knew. The only thing it possibly did was narrow down the location of Mr Cruel's house assuming the aircraft noises were genuine but it certainly didn't do anything to pinpoint it. It was an hour long exercise in drawing pretty pictures to show...the same stuff we've known for 30 years
 

jason_recliner

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Dec 9, 2020
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Nothing but they get to say fancy words like GEOGRAPHIC INFORMATION SYSTEM and sound smart. It sounds sciencey so it must be good!

GIS isn't even that new or that revolutionary. I got taught the basics of it in my undergrad degree. Most surveyors worth their salt these days are experts in it. All it really is is a method for displaying desired information over a map to show up patterns. We could've started our own YouTube channel, got someone to create a custom Google Map and got the same results for 1/1000th the budget.

It showed absolutely nothing new. Victoria Police had probably done something similar with physical or digital maps back in the day. All it was was making pretty pictures from what we already knew. The only thing it possibly did was narrow down the location of Mr Cruel's house assuming the aircraft noises were genuine but it certainly didn't do anything to pinpoint it. It was an hour long exercise in drawing pretty pictures to show...the same stuff we've known for 30 years
Been using GIS since 2005.
 

johnymac1

Team Captain
Nov 6, 2019
530
729
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Adelaide
As we have seen with other criminals like Joseph James DeAngelo, they do take breaks from their offending.
This sometimes depends on their situation at the time. For instance they may be in a relationship or in Jail.
We cant rule out, he may make a come back. Important for police to keep the pressure on. and keep the investigation open.
Unfortunately the UI program will bring out a few crackpots.
 

Kurve

Moderator
Dec 27, 2016
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As we have seen with other criminals like Joseph James DeAngelo, they do take breaks from their offending.

It was a bit disappointing when that American profiler said that they don't stop when we know that they can and they do. Also, I noticed Charlie Bezzina looked a bit annoyed when Sly and the profiler indicated they may not have been real sure if Cruel was responsible for Karmein Chan. Those on the inside of the investigation, know as a certainty that he is responsible imo.
 
Jan 28, 2022
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58
AFL Club
Essendon
Nothing but they get to say fancy words like GEOGRAPHIC INFORMATION SYSTEM and sound smart. It sounds sciencey so it must be good!

GIS isn't even that new or that revolutionary. I got taught the basics of it in my undergrad degree. Most surveyors worth their salt these days are experts in it. All it really is is a method for displaying desired information over a map to show up patterns. We could've started our own YouTube channel, got someone to create a custom Google Map and got the same results for 1/1000th the budget.

It showed absolutely nothing new. Victoria Police had probably done something similar with physical or digital maps back in the day. All it was was making pretty pictures from what we already knew. The only thing it possibly did was narrow down the location of Mr Cruel's house assuming the aircraft noises were genuine but it certainly didn't do anything to pinpoint it. It was an hour long exercise in drawing pretty pictures to show...the same stuff we've known for 30 years
It's funny you should say that, because that's exactly what I did. Then Mike King copied my Google Map and pretended he created it using GIS. Then Channel 9 put some fancy graphics on it and made a show about it to make lots of money. I still think my map is superior to their crap. It's included all of the substations mentioned in the show for 18 months before they put it in their show. You can find it here: Mr Cruel Map - Google My Maps
 

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