Toast Hutchings

mulehoops

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Is there any "A" grade midfielders we could possibly grab from another club in the offseason? Or do we look to the draft and when we finally unearth a couple, all our talls would have retired?
 

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Eaglemaniac

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People don't talk about how great Scooter and Masten are... Shuey has been talked up since his very good 2011 which warranted the hype. It's not stylishness that people froth over, it's upside and talent.

People don't talk up players who just work hard because hard work alone won't make us a premiership side.

It's also not clear that he's an upgrade on Priddis. Their strengths and weaknesses cancel each other out if anything.

I don't mind Hutch but there's only room in a side for one of him and unfortunately we have too many
Thats not true either mate. People talk about how great Masten is despite him not really winning games off his own boot. He's done some good things here and there just like Shuey, but they don't deserve the kind of fandom they get on here particularly, but they get it because they look stylish when they do things, so it gives people the hope that hey can do those things enough to be game winners for us. Unfortunately, so far, they don't produce enough of it to be the mids we all hoped they would be.

Dane Swan is a hard working mid with very little style and a lot of awkwardness about him that won a Brownlow, so hard workers do get talked up, it's just that they have to work so much harder for so much longer than the stylish guys to get noticed.

Hutching is an upgrade on Priddis because he can run down an opponent on the turnover, beat the ball into the backline through hard running, work it out of defence through a chain of possessions because he can keep up, and when he's in space he can hit up our forwards. These are things Priddis cannot do.
 

SpaceClef

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Thats not true either mate. People talk about how great Masten is despite him not really winning games off his own boot. He's done some good things here and there just like Shuey, but they don't deserve the kind of fandom they get on here particularly, but they get it because they look stylish when they do things, so it gives people the hope that hey can do those things enough to be game winners for us. Unfortunately, so far, they don't produce enough of it to be the mids we all hoped they would be.

Dane Swan is a hard working mid with very little style and a lot of awkwardness about him that won a Brownlow, so hard workers do get talked up, it's just that they have to work so much harder for so much longer than the stylish guys to get noticed.

Hutching is an upgrade on Priddis because he can run down an opponent on the turnover, beat the ball into the backline through hard running, work it out of defence through a chain of possessions because he can keep up, and when he's in space he can hit up our forwards. These are things Priddis cannot do.
Yeah and Priddis is a far stronger extractor. Like i said, they both are better and worse than each other at different things.

What fandom does Masten get on here? He is one of the few players in our side who can reliably hit a target inside 50 off either foot (Hutchings has no opposite foot), but no one seriously touts him as a great player.

Swan is also more than hard work (in fact it was probably lack thereof that made it take so long for him to improve). He's big bodied, explosive, very good forward of centre and doesn't stop running to contests.

You criticise Shuey for not winning matches for us consistently, but does Hutchings eve have the ability to win a match for us?
 

Eaglemaniac

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Yeah and Priddis is a far stronger extractor. Like i said, they both are better and worse than each other at different things.

What fandom does Masten get on here? He is one of the few players in our side who can reliably hit a target inside 50 off either foot (Hutchings has no opposite foot), but no one seriously touts him as a great player.

Swan is also more than hard work (in fact it was probably lack thereof that made it take so long for him to improve). He's big bodied, explosive, very good forward of centre and doesn't stop running to contests.

You criticise Shuey for not winning matches for us consistently, but does Hutchings eve have the ability to win a match for us?
I disagree that he's a far stronger extractor (Priddis). They're similar in extraction except that Hutchings can use it better on the outside. They're both guilty of the quick kick out of the pack at times which doesn't really always go to our best advantage, but then I've seen top players like Pendlebury and others do the same when under a large amount of pressure. Pendlebury and Mitchell however have a higher percentage of kicks that do hit targets so it's not as noticeable.

Are you seriously asking me what fandom Masten gets on here? We have whole pre season threads dedicated to him about how he's training the house down and how he's going to become elite. It's funny that once we get into the actual season it never really eventuates. Sure he has a nice kick, but he gets pushed off the ball so easily he virtually needs to get the ball spoon fed to him to use it. Even Jetta out bodied him on the weekend in a contest. Hutchings can hit a target inside 50 and has hit up Kennedy, Le Cras, Hurn and Darling plenty this year, he just doesn't have a stylish motion when he kicks or runs, so no one goes in about it, but when Masto or Wellers hit one flat pass over 40 metres ( and then go missing for the rest of the game), they get raved about.

He is, but he's not a stylish looking player ( Swan). He has a very ungainly running style as well as kicking style, and is regarded highly because of his work rate as well as his body strength.

Hutchings does not have the raw talent that Shuey has. His role is to work in and under to get the ball to Shuey and these other types who should be during their ability to break lines and hit up targets but they aren't around, because they aren't working hard enough off the ball or with it. Having said that, if you took Hutchings and Priddis out if the side right now, and left Wellers, Masto and Shuey to do all the work I'm very sure we'd have about half the chance of winning games that we do now because they are seemingly happy just running around getting paid every week, win or lose. It's a sad situation but it's the one we're in. With the right guys around him I think Hutch could be a vital part of a good midfield, like Sewell at Hawthorn. He's not the messiah but at the moment we're getting a good return out of him, much more than what we're getting from our supposedly more naturally talented mids.
 

Carbine Chaos

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With the right guys around him I think Hutch could be a vital part of a good midfield, like Sewell at Hawthorn. He's not the messiah but at the moment we're getting a good return out of him, much more than what we're getting from our supposedly more naturally talented mids.
Hutchings will never be a 'vital' part of any midfield, regardless of who is around him. Role/depth player written all over him.
 

Eaglemaniac

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Hutchings will never be a 'vital' part of any midfield, regardless of who is around him. Role/depth player written all over him.
That's a big call after less than 20 games Thorne, especially when right now he's giving the side more than our primadonna mids. Too many people are being way too harsh on this kid IMO. Its taken Sheppard 5 seasons and a change of coach to offer anything to the side, and he's a top ten pick. Hutch is playing above value at present for what we paid for him.
 

SpaceClef

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He's also 24 early next year. He's had at least three AFL preseasons incl at St Kilda so it's not as if he's Malcolm Karpany.

I don't really get your style v no-style point. Swan was a hugely hyped marquee player in the late 00s despite having a weird running style. What's that got to do with Hutch?

The Masten preseason threads are a joke more than anything else. Maybe I don't pay attention to the fan boy stuff as much as you.

I don't think it's got anything to do with style, it's just that Hutchings doesn't do anything extraordinarily well, either at AFL or WAFL level. He's consistent, predictable and vanilla. That's what people find unappealing - it's more fun to latch on to players with a weapon or two with the hope they'll eventually correct their weaknesses and turn into guns.

I think most people have decided now that Masten and Selwood won't, and so I don't think you'll see too many fanbois over those two from now on.
 

Eaglemaniac

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He's also 24 early next year. He's had at least three AFL preseasons incl at St Kilda so it's not as if he's Malcolm Karpany.

I don't really get your style v no-style point. Swan was a hugely hyped marquee player in the late 00s despite having a weird running style. What's that got to do with Hutch?

The Masten preseason threads are a joke more than anything else. Maybe I don't pay attention to the fan boy stuff as much as you.

I don't think it's got anything to do with style, it's just that Hutchings doesn't do anything extraordinarily well, either at AFL or WAFL level. He's consistent, predictable and vanilla. That's what people find unappealing - it's more fun to latch on to players with a weapon or two with the hope they'll eventually correct their weaknesses and turn into guns.

I think most people have decided now that Masten and Selwood won't, and so I don't think you'll see too many fanbois over those two from now on.
He might be 24, but he's played hardly any games so like most players needs to be given time to get comfortable and confident to really show what he can do at AFL level. He's shown enough different abilities to deserve the time IMO.

Because they're not the flashy type of player that looks good while doing sweet FA like we have a plethora of, but in the meantime Swan and Hutchings get their hands on the footy 25 plus times all over the ground from the back line to the forward line, ensuring the team has control of the footy more than if we waited for the flashy types to occasionally touch the footy. These types of players often get called vanilla but without enough of them in a team you've got no solid base to build on. No point having icing without cake.

It's not just the pre season threads, you've got guys giving Masten of Shuey votes after games where they've barely done anything, and then you've got them being talked up as almost elite when they're miles away.

Never done anything at WAFL or AFL level? So I guess dominating the last WAFL grand final and being named BOG is nothing? Even the AFL prospectus from last year named his efforts as being in the top ten in the AFL for defensive efforts and possessions in the run of games he got last year before being dropped unexpectedly. He's been named in our best a few times this year already. What does the kid have to do for you to actually see what he has to offer? If he grows a fringe or some tatts will that all of a sudden make him less vanilla? ;)

So how's that hope of latching on to flashy guys in the hope they turn into guns working out for us?
Meanwhile, a young kid comes in who wins the footy for us in big numbers, runs from the back line to the forward line and hits up our forwards, has taken clutch marks under pressure to help get us out of the back line, run down opposition players in the defensive 50 to save a goal and kicked a few himself but he's not good enough? He's made a few mistakes but he doesn't deserved the bagging he gets on here.

I guess you could always celebrate 6 flashy disposals while we lose each game...
 
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Carbine Chaos

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To some extent Hutchings is allowed to do what he does, whereas our other mids have enough runs on the board to warrant some attention from the opposition. He's doing OK considering his limited attributes. But the main part of that sentence is 'limited attributes'. We'll be better off long term if he's relegated to a peripheral player by others on the list.
 

greatwhiteshark

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He might be 24, but he's played hardly any games so like most players needs to be given time to get comfortable and confident to really show what he can do at AFL level. He's shown enough different abilities to deserve the time IMO.

Because they're not the flashy type of player that looks good while doing sweet FA like we have a plethora of, but in the meantime Swan and Hutchings get their hands on the footy 25 plus times all over the ground from the back line to the forward line, ensuring the team has control of the footy more than if we waited for the flashy types to occasionally touch the footy. These types of players often get called vanilla but without enough of them in a team you've got no solid base to build on. No point having icing without cake.

It's not just the pre season threads, you've got guys giving Masten of Shuey votes after games where they've barely done anything, and then you've got them being talked up as almost elite when they're miles away.

Never done anything at WAFL or AFL level? So I guess dominating the last WAFL grand final and being named BOG is nothing? Even the AFL prospectus from last year named his efforts as being in the top ten in the AFL for defensive efforts and possessions in the run of games he got last year before being dropped unexpectedly. He's been named in our best a few times this year already. What does the kid have to do for you to actually see what he has to offer? If he grows a fringe or some tatts will that all of a sudden make him less vanilla? ;)

So how's that hope of latching on to flashy guys in the hope they turn into guns working out for us?
Meanwhile, a young kid comes in who wins the footy for us in big numbers, runs from the back line to the forward line and hits up our forwards, has taken clutch marks under pressure to help get us out of the back line, run down opposition players in the defensive 50 to save a goal and kicked a few himself but he's not good enough? He's made a few mistakes but he doesn't deserved the bagging he gets on here.

I guess you could always celebrate 6 flashy disposals while we lose each game...

The simple facts are Eaglemaniac that because the club recruited them and came out and said they will be A Graders the majority believe them and just think it will happen, Christ the club thinks it Also and that's why they have given Masten, Selwood 100 plus games because they simply won't admit they recruited poorly.
I don't think Hutch will become A grade either but I want to find out, he deserves the same 5 years of walk up starts that these other guys have gotten.

And not bagging NN here but heard on the radio the other night about him not getting a mark or a kick against the Dockers and people were ringing up saying he was doing things off the ball for the team no one saw.
To many excuses for players at our club and our members and supporters offer them up even more than the MC do.
Footy is a simple game, you either do or you don't do. You don't do then you get dropped, you do and you maintain your spot.
Modern day footy clubs seem to have forgotten about the most basic principles in sport. Potential is simply a word until you can actually deliver.
 

Yamumluvsbigcox

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That's a big call after less than 20 games Thorne, especially when right now he's giving the side more than our primadonna mids. Too many people are being way too harsh on this kid IMO. Its taken Sheppard 5 seasons and a change of coach to offer anything to the side, and he's a top ten pick. Hutch is playing above value at present for what we paid for him.
Sheppard has so much more upside than hutch . Chased down jetta on the weekend and his attacking foot skills that may go astray are what we need to help move up the ladder . If hutch can clean up his Disposal he will be serviceable .
 

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SpaceClef

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He might be 24, but he's played hardly any games so like most players needs to be given time to get comfortable and confident to really show what he can do at AFL level. He's shown enough different abilities to deserve the time IMO.

Because they're not the flashy type of player that looks good while doing sweet FA like we have a plethora of, but in the meantime Swan and Hutchings get their hands on the footy 25 plus times all over the ground from the back line to the forward line, ensuring the team has control of the footy more than if we waited for the flashy types to occasionally touch the footy. These types of players often get called vanilla but without enough of them in a team you've got no solid base to build on. No point having icing without cake.

It's not just the pre season threads, you've got guys giving Masten of Shuey votes after games where they've barely done anything, and then you've got them being talked up as almost elite when they're miles away.

Never done anything at WAFL or AFL level? So I guess dominating the last WAFL grand final and being named BOG is nothing? Even the AFL prospectus from last year named his efforts as being in the top ten in the AFL for defensive efforts and possessions in the run of games he got last year before being dropped unexpectedly. He's been named in our best a few times this year already. What does the kid have to do for you to actually see what he has to offer? If he grows a fringe or some tatts will that all of a sudden make him less vanilla? ;)

So how's that hope of latching on to flashy guys in the hope they turn into guns working out for us?
Meanwhile, a young kid comes in who wins the footy for us in big numbers, runs from the back line to the forward line and hits up our forwards, has taken clutch marks under pressure to help get us out of the back line, run down opposition players in the defensive 50 to save a goal and kicked a few himself but he's not good enough? He's made a few mistakes but he doesn't deserved the bagging he gets on here.

I guess you could always celebrate 6 flashy disposals while we lose each game...
You're barking up the wrong tree. I don't rate Hutchings. I also don't rate Masten or Selwood or Wellingham or Sheppard.

I think Shuey is our only current best 22 mid with A grade potential yet he has no tatts, has a boring haircut, and hardly plays a Hollywood style game.

Plenty of non stylish, non flashy players who are superstars, not vanilla.

Dalziell also dominated the WAFL around Hutchings age, as did Ashton Hams
 

Eaglemaniac

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Another dead average mid. Slow, limited skills. Not fit to lick Priddis bootlaces at contested footy.

He's not slow at all. Had a decent test time at draft camp and ran down GAblett last year as he was trying to accelerate away from the contest. He's caught other decent paced players in games to save a goal kicked against us. People just make up their minds to not like a player and just make s**t up to suit their argument whether it's true or not. We have midfield problems. But Hutch is not the problem.
 

Carbine Chaos

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He's not slow at all. Had a decent test time at draft camp and ran down GAblett last year as he was trying to accelerate away from the contest. He's caught other decent paced players in games to save a goal kicked against us. People just make up their minds to not like a player and just make s**t up to suit their argument whether it's true or not. We have midfield problems. But Hutch is not the problem.
He's not part of the solution either.
 

Eaglemaniac

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You're barking up the wrong tree. I don't rate Hutchings. I also don't rate Masten or Selwood or Wellingham or Sheppard.

I think Shuey is our only current best 22 mid with A grade potential yet he has no tatts, has a boring haircut, and hardly plays a Hollywood style game.

Plenty of non stylish, non flashy players who are superstars, not vanilla.

Dalziell also dominated the WAFL around Hutchings age, as did Ashton Hams
Sellers, Masto and Shep have plenty of talent, but either don't use it enough or have no work rate, body strength.

He might not have tatts but he's very Hollywood. He's usually only around when the going is good or it's an easy team to beat.

And I bet those non stylish superstars had more than 20 games to prove their worth. ;)

A couple of posts ago you were telling us he didn't dominate anything, even WAFL. Now you're saying he does but that doesn't mean anything. Just because three guys you named didn't make an impact at AFL level after dominating the WAFL, doesn't mean the next guy won't, but they have to be given plenty of opportunity, which is my point. I'd be waiting til at least 50 games before writing off a young player.
 

Eaglemaniac

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He's not part of the solution either.
Like a said a million times, writing off a player who's getting as much footy as Hutch is and contributing like he is us ridiculous when he's played less than 50 games. You wanna get on someone's back, try our established players who have been on the list for 5 years and aren't performing at a high enough level for what they're being paid.
 

Xsess

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Some pretty good players get missed through the draft process, make a name in the lower leagues before forcing their way onto AFL lists as mature age recruits. Players like Podsiadly, Priddis and Barlow, who've come in and performed at a level from day dot. Hutchings is a mature age recruit, has come in and is performing at about his peak - just isn't much good.
 

Carbine Chaos

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Like a said a million times, writing off a player who's getting as much footy as Hutch is and contributing like he is us ridiculous when he's played less than 50 games. You wanna get on someone's back, try our established players who have been on the list for 5 years and aren't performing at a high enough level for what they're being paid.
If Hutchings was paid even half of the attention from opposition coaches and players that the others are, you'd be ripping into him too. It's a fickle argument from both sides.

Why do you think opposition coaches pay little to no attention to Priddis/Hutchings and their ilk on game days?
 

greatwhiteshark

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If Hutchings was paid even half of the attention from opposition coaches and players that the others are, you'd be ripping into him too. It's a fickle argument from both sides.

Why do you think opposition coaches pay little to no attention to Priddis/Hutchings and their ilk on game days?
Hutch certainly has not earned a tag yet that is for sure.
Selwood, Priddis and Masten don't get tagged because most of the time they are an opponents asset as they give it to them all day. No need to tag help.
Shuey gets tagged because he actually can hurt you.

I am not sure Hutch is going to be part of a premier midfield at the Eagles, but Like Eaglemaniac said I am happy to give him more than 20 games to find out, especially after how many we have given Masten and Selwood.
 

Carbine Chaos

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Hutch certainly has not earned a tag yet that is for sure.
Selwood, Priddis and Masten don't get tagged because most of the time they are an opponents asset as they give it to them all day. No need to tag help.
Shuey gets tagged because he actually can hurt you.

I am not sure Hutch is going to be part of a premier midfield at the Eagles, but Like Eaglemaniac said I am happy to give him more than 20 games to find out, especially after how many we have given Masten and Selwood.
Masten and Selwood are better than Hutchings. We'd be better off building the midfield around Yeo and another prospect with Masten/Selwood as back-up than phase them out to give games to Hutchings. IMO.
 

greatwhiteshark

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Masten and Selwood are better than Hutchings. We'd be better off building the midfield around Yeo and another prospect with Masten/Selwood as back-up than phase them out to give games to Hutchings. IMO.
Disgagree on Selwood and Masten, they are no better than Hutchings. It is just that when you have been given upwards of 100 chances then of course you would of had some days in the sun as they have had. Both are generally an oppositions greatest asset however.

Yes we need to build our midfield around Yeo and others for sure.
 

Daveismad

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Maybe it's our coaching

We keep hearing every pre season how fit our boys are ....


We often win games early in the year ......then at about round five or six the slumps comes and we never recover at all

Our skill is the worst in the competition ....only better than st kilda and Richmond
 

SpaceClef

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Sellers, Masto and Shep have plenty of talent, but either don't use it enough or have no work rate, body strength. And?

He might not have tatts but he's very Hollywood. He's usually only around when the going is good or it's an easy team to beat.
So being stylish has now turned into being a front-runner? Confused

And I bet those non stylish superstars had more than 20 games to prove their worth. ;)
If Hutchings was 19 I would get your point, but he's not.

A couple of posts ago you were telling us he didn't dominate anything, even WAFL. Now you're saying he does but that doesn't mean anything. Just because three guys you named didn't make an impact at AFL level after dominating the WAFL, doesn't mean the next guy won't, but they have to be given plenty of opportunity, which is my point. I'd be waiting til at least 50 games before writing off a young player.
I never said he didn't dominate the WAFL, you completely made that up. I said he doesn't display any extraordinary abilities - he's just OK at everything - i.e. vanilla. That, coupled with hard work and consistency, will make you a very good WAFL player, maybe one that is too good for the WAFL - but not someone you build your premiership-hungry AFL team around.

He's very good depth, but you don't want him playing 24 games a year.


So what is your point - is it that you think our other midfielders are overrated, or is it that you think Hutchings is good enough to be in a premiership team's midfield?
 

SpaceClef

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Hutch certainly has not earned a tag yet that is for sure.
Selwood, Priddis and Masten don't get tagged because most of the time they are an opponents asset as they give it to them all day. No need to tag help.
Shuey gets tagged because he actually can hurt you.

I am not sure Hutch is going to be part of a premier midfield at the Eagles, but Like Eaglemaniac said I am happy to give him more than 20 games to find out, especially after how many we have given Masten and Selwood.
You seem to be doing the same thing as Eaglemaniac.

Either you claim that Selwood/Masten/Shuey didn't deserve so much time pumped into them or you argue that Hutchings deserves 100 games. You can't argue that Hutchings deserves to play 100 games simply because you think Selwood and Masten didn't deserve it. I'm sure that's some sort of logical fallacy
 

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