Hyperbole aside, might Australian cricket be in trouble due to societal factors?

Rioli2Gunstall

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#26
My sister who knows stuff all about cricket and could only name khawaja as a player said we are shit because backyards are too small. When i was growing up in the 80's and 90's one of the best things to do was backyard cricket. If i had no one to play with i would throw against the laundry and play back. Now its more likely to be online gaming. Its a factor.
 

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Rioli2Gunstall

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#27
I reckon we'll start to go a bit the way of NZ. Raval, Patel and Sodhi in their squad. All NZers of subcontinental heritage.

It's not that kids will stop playing cricket or anything but it's a bit like the year 12 honours lists where Asian names dominate despite being a minority of the population. The cultural drive will push kids to excel while we tell our kiddies that it doesn't matter who win and everyone is a winner.
I wont be teaching that, not everyone is a winner thats a load of bullshite. Akin to 2016 quali when smithc told izzy 'just enjoy it'. No, sorry, accept teh pressure and kick the ****en goal you can enjoy it after. Same with the swimming sisters that stuffed it at the olympics, enjoy it when your job is done, you put in the hard yards so give your effort the respect it deserves. Ramble over/
 

Rioli2Gunstall

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#28
I remember playing trial cricket matches at primary school (so that would be around 1970) when all batsmen were forced to retire at 15. So everyone got a go, not just the good ones.
Thats how it was at local cricket in the early 90's as well. Until under 11's you would bat time, so u lose a wicket it costs 2 runs but you get your time in the middle. Once you hit the u13's it was normal cricket and that was a good system. Still plenty of opportunity to bat and bowl.
 

Jane Doe

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#29
Thats how it was at local cricket in the early 90's as well. Until under 11's you would bat time, so u lose a wicket it costs 2 runs but you get your time in the middle. Once you hit the u13's it was normal cricket and that was a good system. Still plenty of opportunity to bat and bowl.
Not sure about other states but in Victoria in the juniors all grades below a grade play split innings. Bat for 20 overs and then bowl for 20. This doesn’t teach kids how to build an innings and also doesn’t teach them how to field for long periods of time
 

Rioli2Gunstall

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#30
Not sure about other states but in Victoria in the juniors all grades below a grade play split innings. Bat for 20 overs and then bowl for 20. This doesn’t teach kids how to build an innings and also doesn’t teach them how to field for long periods of time
That was NSW/Vic and i think at U13's it went to 40 overs per side and retire at 50.
 

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#31
I reckon we'll start to go a bit the way of NZ. Raval, Patel and Sodhi in their squad. All NZers of subcontinental heritage.

It's not that kids will stop playing cricket or anything but it's a bit like the year 12 honours lists where Asian names dominate despite being a minority of the population. The cultural drive will push kids to excel while we tell our kiddies that it doesn't matter who win and everyone is a winner.
There are a few in NSW but are there any kids of subcontinent background coming through in other states?
 

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#32
My sister who knows stuff all about cricket and could only name khawaja as a player said we are shit because backyards are too small. When i was growing up in the 80's and 90's one of the best things to do was backyard cricket. If i had no one to play with i would throw against the laundry and play back. Now its more likely to be online gaming. Its a factor.
Have backyards in England gotten bigger in the last 10-15 years?
 

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#33
Financially the sport will be fine: kids and women love the Big Bash and it will continue to grow.

But in terms of player quality, especially when it comes to first-class cricket, here are some problems I see getting worse:

1) Obesity. This is a fat country and only getting fatter.

Australia is not alone in this regard but we seem to be near the front of the pack.

2) Urbanisation. Our cities are getting larger and denser, while backyard sizes are getting smaller.

Where do kids learn that competitive spirit? Once upon a time it was in backyards. In Australia, the major cities are the population bases, and within those cities, new homes are built without backyards, while existing homes are being destroyed and the land sub-divided to build newer, shittier 'houses', with even smaller backyards.

3) Helicopter parenting. The 'stranger danger' thing is now deeply rooted in the Australian psyche.

When backyards are small, kids can still play on the street. Well, they used to. We don't see kids outside much these days. There are several reasons for this and I contend that one of them is that parents not allowing their kids to go and play with neighbours, whereas not long ago it was common for parents to actively encourage their children to go and find other kids to play with.

4) Mind-warping drugs. Young boys are being prescribed psychiatric drugs like nobodies business.

Statistics on this are surprisingly hard to find, but based on anecdotal observation, it seems to me that Australian boys must be the most doped-up in the world (apart from the Yanks). Anybody who thinks this has no effect on the long-term outcomes for a child are woefully naive.

It seems to me that Australia is one of the world leaders in societal trends which are deleterious to producing talented athletes and especially talented cricketers, particularly in comparison to other cricket-playing nations.

Perhaps I am overreacting and allowing the shiteness of one generation of Aussie cricketers to cloud my view. But take away Steve Smith and before him Michael Clarke and this country's Test batting has been woeful for a decade, with no sign of improvement on the horizon. If the factors I am pointing to are not somehow responsible for it, then what is?

And don't say video games or technology: those are problematic in every country now, even in 'poorer' nations. From what I can tell, Australia is no worse in this regard. Kids around the world are hooked on video games and smartphones. The factors I have pointed to, I am suggesting that Australia is worse. Obesity, urbanisation, helicopter parenting, doping up kids: I am suggesting that these are worse in Australia than other cricket-playing nations.

I would love to be wrong. Please tell me I am.
I think you are over reacting.

We were number one in tests only two and a bit years ago and have been the dominant team for the past 20 years. That is a huge period on top, and it was never going to last. We are down at the moment but India are the benchmark, they want this series win more than anything and we have our two best batters out. To be frank, I think we've done better than most in world cricket expected.
 

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#34
There are a few in NSW but are there any kids of subcontinent background coming through in other states?
None in the WA squad that I know of.

As far as participation rates go they are at record highs, but getting primary school kids playing a few overs over Milo cricket or whatever it's called these days looks good for your KPIs but won't solve our test batting woes. I don't know what participation rates are like across age groups, grades etc.

It started years ago with guys like Brad Hodge and Dirk Nannes retiring from FC cricket to focus on the shorter forms. Hodge played Shield for Victoria from 1993-2009 and List A until 2012. Played tests/ODIs/T20Is for a couple of years but save for his T20I recall in 2014 his international career was effectively done by 2008 and he would've made a shitload more money in the last few years playing T20 compared to toiling away playing FC cricket for 15 years. Look at someone like Andrew Tye. Fringe player in the Shield for WA, one of the best T20 bowlers in the World. If he was 5 or 10 years older he would've retired with nothing to show for it, now he'll pocket over $1m this coming year. It's not like footy where the top 500 players in the country all make a good living out of playing the game. You could be the 10th best batsman in the comp and if you can't strike at 130+ then you'll need a day job.

You can handle losing guys like Hodge who are already 35 and Tye who is never going to be test standard but it's a fine balance for many other players. Pat Cummins just took 3/72 & 6/27 then made 63 on a 4th day pitch. He could've easily said '**** it' after 6 years of injury setbacks and focused on just bowling 4 overs at a time and pocketing millions for it.
 

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#35
We're in trouble because other sides have increased their professionalism and caught up. Two tours ago, India came here with a side packed with overweight, ageing batsmen, poor fielders and a popgun attack. Now look at them.

Same reason our olympic swimming team hasn't been as successful of late.

In contrast, we seem to be going great guns in women's sport, which would be largely due to how it is funded (compared to other countries).
This is a cop out. Australian Cricket would still have more resources than everyone else bar India. They shouldn't be this bad.
 

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Belnakor

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#37
Same reason our olympic swimming team hasn't been as successful of late.
Our swimming team has tanked for the same reason our cycling has. Not enough funds to buy the top PED that we used to be able to get and not enough funds to get the top talent. Cricket has neither of those problems.
 
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#38
It is worse than you young blokes realise - it is endemic. Started in early 2000s - unnoticed by most. Class batsmen are dying in Aussie cricket - potential Test class boys (U15 to U19 Nationals) are being shoved aside for people like Mitchell March. Both Gilchrist and Hussey stuck at it and were finally 'noticed', but now skinny boys like that dont bother trying to fight the system. If something very serious is not done soon, Australian cricket will go the same way as did tennis.

Aust could easily become a team that was once the world's dominant and best Test cricket team/players, and are just another up and down team like Pakistan or West Indies (remember them?). Not so long ago the NZ Rugby Team started to go into serious decline, but they quickly stopped it - they sacked over half the senior development coaches and administrators, and re-structured the entire development system. It worked and now NZ, who has consistently been the best Rugby Nation for over 100 years, is back at/near the top. Call me pessimistic boys, but the same 'arrogance' and refusal to see the problem was evident in Aust tennis administrators (my daughter was a national player) and they refused to change. Now it is 40 years later and they are stuffed with no way back. Hopefully cricket in Aust will not fall as far as tennis did, but trust me on this, we were the best tennis Nation in the world for a very long time - why do you think one of the 4 Grand Slams is the Aust Open (US, British and French the others). We risk becoming another West Indies - once the best for over 20 years and now just another Test team.
 
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#39
Just on the mind-warping drugs thing, according to this report, about 10% of Australian boys now have ADHD.

Yep, one in ten boys is being diagnosed as having a mental disorder. we can infer that a similar number are being medicated.

Was it that bad when you were in school? No. It is getting worse, at a rapid rate.
All the shit in the chickens
 

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#42
Cricket Australia has focused too much on the $$$$$$$$$$. the states are financially poor and rely on the big bash $
Even thou CA apparently made a fifty million profit on the world cup (2015)
just a few top players and Administrators are making big $$. the rest is in the bank
have a look a there financials
 

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#43
This thread is amusing. The most important thing about kids is for them to have fun. You can put them into pathways once they're 14 and start taking it more seriously, but do people really think that a 10 year old cares that if he bats at 3 one week and 9 the next? Do you really think that'll impact the future of Australian cricket?
 

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#44
I always felt it started too early, I’d rather sleep in as a school cricketer

Yeah I’m 35 but I could still be playing now, Australia’s loss I guess.
 

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#45
This thread is amusing. The most important thing about kids is for them to have fun. You can put them into pathways once they're 14 and start taking it more seriously, but do people really think that a 10 year old cares that if he bats at 3 one week and 9 the next? Do you really think that'll impact the future of Australian cricket?
I played cricket when I was 10. I also played tennis, football, soccer, basketball, hockey... basically whatever was going on at school. Some of the best highlights of primary school for me running around thinking I was Ricky Grace, Allan Border, Peter Matera etc. even though a most improved or coaches' award was about the pinnacle of my individual achievement.

The not keeping score thing is bullshit. A game needs to have a score whether it's an U/9s game with modified rules or an A grade final. It's a balance with junior sports between encouraging participation and fostering talent. Cricket by nature is a pretty boring game if you're just standing at fine leg all day so you want to get everyone involved, but by the same token if you are good at it and you only get to bowl a few overs and have to bat at 9 so the other kids get a go it's tempting to play another sport that is less time consuming.
 

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#46
Probably deserves it's own thread elsewhere but do we have any sporting areas of traditional strength where we're actually getting better?

Cricket, rugby, swimming & Summer Olympics in general, tennis... we used to be good at these sports.

Test team stinks, that's pretty well established. Wallabies are 6th or 7th in the World and haven't won the Bledisloe for 15 years and the WC for nearly 20. SR participation has become a bit of a joke and the ARU couldn't organise a chook raffle. We won 16 gold and 58 medals overall in Sydney compared to 8 and 29 in Rio. Results have been trending down each games since 2000. Tennis we used to win the Davis Cup. Wasn't that long ago it took us about 5 years just to get back into the World Group. We have a couple of players floating around the top 50 but seem to produce almost exclusively ********s now so none of our guys are yet good enough to shake off the 'yeah but he's still a dickhead' thing.

On the flip side our basketball team has never been stronger. We've got more players going through the US college system and US professional league than ever. Once upon a time winning a medal of any colour at the Winter Olympics was a big deal. These days we go in with a couple of medal fancies in various disciplines each time, all of which spend most of their time training overseas. We're pretty good at a lot of women's sports but then I think we just provide more opportunities than other countries and the relative international standards aren't that high.

Do other countries just do it better than us now?

NB: Mocking England in the 90s was almost a hobby. Cricket team sucked, and they won 1 goal and 15 medals overall at Atlanda 96. They've gone 10th, 10th, 4th, 3rd, 2nd in the medal tallies since. And kicked our arse in a couple of Ashes series home and away. They even had a male tennis player win Wimbledon, even if he's from Scotland.
 

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#47
There are a few in NSW but are there any kids of subcontinent background coming through in other states?
I see heaps in park cricket. Almost all my clubs first grade side are Indian and there are plenty of other local clubs the same, but a lot don't play at higher levels due to either parental pressure (concentrate on studies) or work, so while they are happy to play locally from 12 to 6 on a Saturday afternoon and train occasionally, they cant/dont want to train 3 times a week and play Saturday & Sunday from 10am all over Sydney.
 

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#48
Seems India have no problem finding excellent players, despite their parents dying young, living in poverty in shanty shacks, having little to no possessions and sometimes at best having little more than a 5-foot wide alley to play in.
 

Scotland

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#49
Seems India have no problem finding excellent players, despite their parents dying young, living in poverty in shanty shacks, having little to no possessions and sometimes at best having little more than a 5-foot wide alley to play in.
They do have a billion people to pick from who all love cricket. Brasil don't seem to have any trouble finding superstar footballers in the streets either.

The solution to our woes (our woes being losing/drawing one home series with the worst team we've had in 30 years) is to send India a bunch of iPads and Playstations.
 

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#50
They do have a billion people to pick from who all love cricket. Brasil don't seem to have any trouble finding superstar footballers in the streets either.

The solution to our woes (our woes being losing/drawing one home series with the worst team we've had in 30 years) is to send India a bunch of iPads and Playstations.
It's nothing to do with population. Australian's these days grow up with a sense of entitlement, from a young age, through their teenage years and into young adulthood. Plucking players out of junior leagues at 12 and 13 to head off to elite development camps and systems just reinforces that mentality. Some clearly deal with it better than others but for every Ponting there's dozens of spuds who should never have made it past grade cricket.

We're legitimately talking about Daniel Hughes and the next Lehmann as possible test cricketers. **** me, I won't watch a single test with those hacks in the team, it's hard enough with the Marsh brothers spudding it up.
 
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