Hypocrisy of The Left - part 2

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Aug 2, 2012
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The movement during the 60-70's has very little to what is happening right now, actually it has nothing to do the push back but lets just ignore that huh?

The movement of the 60s and 70s has everything to do with what is happening now; among other things, the American and Australian SDS organisations effectively created identity politics and made it a major, ongoing (and still growing) force; it created political economy as a field of study in Australia; it invented the first effective grassroots organisational activism methods for upwards political and democratic reform since used by innumerable other associated movements (especially neighbourhood and environmental ones); it superseded and virtually destroyed marxism as a force in Australian political, intellectual and academic fields. It had and continues to have immense influence.
 

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Aug 2, 2012
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Do you even understand where the push back is coming from and against? The new leftist movement is based on identity politics.

This simply makes no sense whatever.
I can only assume that with this and most of the rest of your incoherent posts, you are simply forgetting halfway through what you were going to say, and then just stopping.
 
Oct 14, 2011
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This simply makes no sense whatever.
I can only assume that with this and most of the rest of your incoherent posts, you are simply forgetting halfway through what you were going to say, and then just stopping.
That's certainly coherent. No I just don't have my head up my arse, blind to what's starting to brew.
 
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This simply makes no sense whatever.
I can only assume that with this and most of the rest of your incoherent posts, you are simply forgetting halfway through what you were going to say, and then just stopping.
It's always interesting to find out what people actually mean when they speak of "the left", and I suspect in this poster's case it will be anyone to the left of Pauline Hanson, and the backlash will not be a right wing figure emerging, that's happened already with Trump, and we can all see that's going to turn out. Rather, as seen with Corbyn in the UK, Macron in France, and if the polls are correct, here we will see the emergence of left, and centre left governments as the backlash against the neo liberalism continues to emerge.
 
Oct 14, 2011
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It's always interesting to find out what people actually mean when they speak of "the left", and I suspect in this poster's case it will be anyone to the left of Pauline Hanson, and the backlash will not be a right wing figure emerging, that's happened already with Trump, and we can all see that's going to turn out. Rather, as seen with Corbyn in the UK, Macron in France, and if the polls are correct, here we will see the emergence of left, and centre left governments as the backlash against the neo liberalism continues to emerge.
That's so clever and insightful, anyone one that doesn't agree with me must be hateful like Pauline Hanson, because I'm so noble and good hearted, stupid comments show me how far off you are to understanding the current climate. Please define what you think the new left stands for? So you support the acts of BLK, Berkeley and Evergreen these are becoming the new standard for rational leftist.
 
Aug 2, 2012
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It's always interesting to find out what people actually mean when they speak of "the left", and I suspect in this poster's case it will be anyone to the left of Pauline Hanson, and the backlash will not be a right wing figure emerging, that's happened already with Trump, and we can all see that's going to turn out. Rather, as seen with Corbyn in the UK, Macron in France, and if the polls are correct, here we will see the emergence of left, and centre left governments as the backlash against the neo liberalism continues to emerge.

That's looking increasingly likely, and the support for Sanders was another symptom.
Strangely enough, it's what was predicted, both before and after the 2008 Great Neoliberal Crash, by the Dark Lord, the Great Satan himself, Eric Hobsbawm.
 
Trump lost the popular vote by nearly a couple of million votes. People sometimes forget that.

Trump won because he unexpectedly picked up rust belt states like Michigan that traditionally went blue, and the way the electoral college works favoured him. The demographics of his voters suggested the promise of jobs and opportunities and distaste for career politicians like HRC were what caused them to vote Republican, not Muslim bans or walls or tax cuts for the rich. His current disapproval ratings should be no surprise.

The west is definitely swinging back left, it's part of the cycle but it's happening relatively quickly. You might see Trump become a one-termer, Corbyn poised to pounce, and Shorten sweep to a landslide victory.
 

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Feb 24, 2013
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Trump lost the popular vote by nearly a couple of million votes. People sometimes forget that.

Trump won because he unexpectedly picked up rust belt states like Michigan that traditionally went blue, and the way the electoral college works favoured him. The demographics of his voters suggested the promise of jobs and opportunities and distaste for career politicians like HRC were what caused them to vote Republican, not Muslim bans or walls or tax cuts for the rich. His current disapproval ratings should be no surprise.

The west is definitely swinging back left, it's part of the cycle but it's happening relatively quickly. You might see Trump become a one-termer, Corbyn poised to pounce, and Shorten sweep to a landslide victory.

Trump didn't even win those rust-belt seats legitimately either.....His GOP boys 'Jim-Crowed' them, for him.....Much as they did for Bush in 2000 (Florida) & 2004 (Ohio).

Jill Stein was blocked by Trumps PACS at every step in her endeavors to have both Penn State & Michigan fully re-checked.....Not to mention Hilary stiffing Sanders in the DNC election, with her henchmen 'taking-care' of Seth Rich.

Democracy is dead in the States.....Real Progressive, anti-establishment types have zero chance or hope of ever regaining the seat of power there.....Only a revolution or collapse will change things there now.....The establishments grip on every lever of power simply will not allow the people to ever achieve government again.
 
Trump lost the popular vote by nearly a couple of million votes. People sometimes forget that.

Trump won because he unexpectedly picked up rust belt states like Michigan that traditionally went blue, and the way the electoral college works favoured him. The demographics of his voters suggested the promise of jobs and opportunities and distaste for career politicians like HRC were what caused them to vote Republican, not Muslim bans or walls or tax cuts for the rich. His current disapproval ratings should be no surprise.

The west is definitely swinging back left, it's part of the cycle but it's happening relatively quickly. You might see Trump become a one-termer, Corbyn poised to pounce, and Shorten sweep to a landslide victory.
Does anyone actually like Shorten, or is it the dislike of Turnbull that causes this. I don't get how anyone could want Shorten in.
 

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The incumbent government is s**t. The worst Liberal led government we have had.

Shorten is an average individual but like Abbott will get in due to enough voters simply wanting the incumbent out.
 
That's what I was inferring. Never met anyone that likes Shorten, just that they dislike Turnbull. Bring back Johnny, there was a guy.

Old Malcolm Turnbull > Shorten > New Malcolm Turnbull > Abbott

The right wing of the Libs is responsible for this - somehow deluded themselves into thinking that Australian voters want ideologues in charge of the country. Turnbull's approval ratings were astronomical when he ousted Abbott, now look what caving into the right wing has resulted in...
 
Aug 16, 2006
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But what of the Right's hypocrisy?

Surely the Right's greatest hypocrisy arises between its embrace of neo-liberalism in the economic sphere and its paradoxical rejection of the social effects this creates. The Right wants a 'global world' where commodities circulate freely, where second and first world agriculture and labour is readily integrated ('exploitable' might be a more cynical term). Yet it rejects the inevitable diaspora this creates, and its resultant multiculturalism. Commodities created by those in the second and third worlds can circulate freely, but not those who created them. Then there is the neo-cons unfettered support of spurious 'military interventions' into non-Western countries - like Iraq, for example - for what is, at the end of the day, economic gain. Yet the Right wing neo-con's fail to connect these interventions to the increasingly strident ideologies of terrorist groups, which have only become more militant as a direct consequence.

I love reading Miranda Devine especially. How very worried she is about the corroding of traditional values, about the sexualisation of teenage girls, about the disintegration of the family unit, and so on. She worries about all this while supporting an economic model that assures individuation, the loss of social cohesion, and the commodification of all things (including teenage girls).

The contemporary Right is a hysterical, hypocritical beast. It supports an economic ideal that more or less assures the destruction of the social values it commends.
 
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Feb 24, 2013
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But what of the Right's hypocrisy?

The contemporary Right is a hysterical, hypocritical beast. It supports an economic ideal that more or less assures the destruction of the social values it commends.

That's because it's an outgrowth of Protestantism....And being an economic 'ideal', it is not grounded in social reality, but rather, the milieu of individual competition & division.....Corporate Fascism & the clamor for resources at any & all costs to humanity & the planet, is it's inevitable conclusion.
 

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you'd be pretty hard-pressed to identify any government that hasn't been violent. indeed, the monopoly on violence is part of what defines a state. centre left governments in liberal democracies have been no more or less violent than their centre right buddies.
Yes but in most western democracies they really are two parties of the right.
 
Oct 2, 2007
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Where's your evidence that conservative policy has done more to undermine the family unit?

If you look to the USA it could be argued that the welfare system has done more to destroy the black American family than any other policy.
There is actually an incentive to be a single mother, and the more dependents you have the more money you receive. Nearly 70% of black families are single parent families. Having children out of wedlock has gone from 24% in the 60's to 73% currently for black families.

Then you can look at the crime rates and academic performance of people who grew up in the single parent households as compared to those who grew up with married biological parents - it's quite shocking.

You're putting the cart before the horse though.

You think (all else being equal) if given a choice between being a single mother on welfare as opposed to being gainfully employed for 5 times the money and freedom, people willingly choose the former?

Of the people that do choose to wait longer for childbirth, they're generally from wealthier and more stable backgrounds. People who tend to have kids earlier are from poorer and more disadvantaged backgrounds.

I bet you'll see a lot more single teenage mothers in Frankston or Mirabooka than in Toorak or Cottesloe.

To some level welfare contributes to the 'Welfare trap'. Once you're on welfare it can be a bit of a tar pit to get free from. But to say [welfare] creates [poverty] is a massive stretch. Of the (many) causes of poverty and social disadvantage, welfare is right down the bottom of the list.
 
Oct 2, 2007
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The new leftist movement is based on identity politics.

It aways has been. As has been the right wing movement:

Left-wing politics supports social equality and egalitarianism, often in opposition to social hierarchy and social inequality. It typically involves a concern for those in society whom its adherents perceive as disadvantaged relative to others (prioritarianism), as well as a belief that there are unjustified inequalities that need to be reduced or abolished (by advocating for social justice).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-wing_politics

Right-wing politics hold that certain social orders and hierarchies are inevitable, natural, normal, or desirable,typically supporting this position on the basis of natural law, economics or tradition.[4](p693, 721). Hierarchy and inequality may be viewed as natural results of traditional social differences or the competition in market economies.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-wing_politics

Can you explain to me how either political position can exist without reference to identity politics?
 
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