Hypocrisy of The Left - part 2

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Anyway - back on topic.

Here is poor Jonah Hill, a very ardent pro-immigration, pro-refugee supporter being confronted by his own hypocrisy. You can almost hear his brain start to melt during the interview.

 
Rock solid commentary from Malfice in this thread re welfare. The triggered responses prove, yet again, that right wingers don't do nuance.

Anyone watching Broken, from the BBC? Been a fan of Jimmy McGovern, the writer, since Cracker in the mid nineties. This might be his best work.
 
Fryman said:
Anyway - back on topic.

Here is poor Jonah Hill, a very ardent pro-immigration, pro-refugee supporter being confronted by his own hypocrisy. You can almost hear his brain start to melt during the interview.

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So you ignore data and questions put to you, or any actual critical discussion of your views, and just parrot crap?

And the left are the hypocritical ones?
 

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Malifice said:
So you ignore data and questions put to you, or any actual critical discussion of your views, and just parrot crap?

And the left are the hypocritical ones?
Click to expand...
How on earth did you become a mod?

Here is my response then. I'm using the USA because that was what my original comment was about.

When the 'War on Poverty' program began in America in 1964 only 7% of children were born to unmarried women. By 2013 41% of all children were born outside marriage.

Since 1965 the number of married couples with children has remained fairly stable but single parent families with kids had from 3 million to about 13 million.
(you said single mothers were caused by 'dickhead boyfriends' - did the number of dickheads magically increase since the 60's)

The welfare state is enabling single parenthood in two ways.
1. It enables women with poor education and poor job prospects the means to support children without the need for an income provided by the husband.

2. It penalises marriage. If you look at the incentives for low income women - there is a penaly for marrying a man (even one earning less than $20,000). Benefits will either be slashed or taken away altogether. So why get married and lose money.

Coming from a single parent home is unfortunately a pretty good predictor for many negative life outcomes, including becoming a single parent. So the viscous cycle continues and is passed on down the generations.

I am not against welfare, but in it's current incarnation I don't think it's helping to break the cycle of poverty. They are incentivising the wrong things. I am not smart enough to know how it should look, but there certainly has to be a way to try and keep families together while also providing financial help to those that need it.
 
I was raised by a single mum who didn't take a single cent from Centrelink so you can kindly f*** off with your generalisations, thanks.

I pay taxes and I am very happy for those taxes to be going towards single mothers having to do it tough. You think people want to be poor? Or that single mothers should stay together in a loveless marriage for the sake of the dual income? Ridiculous.

Maybe we should have a look at why people have to resort to welfare in the first place instead of making them the scapegoats for the government's economic mismanagement. Of course there are welfare cheats and a cycle of dependency that has to be broken but destroying the current system will make things far far worse down the road.
 
Forward Press said:
I was raised by a single mum who didn't take a single cent from Centrelink so you can kindly f*** off with your generalisations, thanks.

I pay taxes and I am very happy for those taxes to be going towards single mothers having to do it tough. You think people want to be poor? Or that single mothers should stay together in a loveless marriage for the sake of the dual income? Ridiculous.

Maybe we should have a look at why people have to resort to welfare in the first place instead of making them the scapegoats for the government's economic mismanagement. Of course there are welfare cheats and a cycle of dependency that has to be broken but destroying the current system will make things far far worse down the road.
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Is it realistic to go through every single case then if we cannot generalize? You didn't complain about the generalizations in here when you agreed with them (d-head dads etc).

I came from a similar situation as you mentioned, it doesn't give you some moral authority to have a go at a poster.
 
Forward Press said:
Of course.

But let's not pretend this wasn't also an attack on Australia.
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I know stuff all about how our welfare works. I wouldn't think of trying to apply the same criticisms to our system. The two countries are poles apart when it comes government assistance.

My criticism was not meant to be personal, it is very hard to talk about such broad issues without making generalisations. I'm sorry if it came across as an attack on you or your mum.
 
Big_Luch said:
Is it realistic to go through every single case then if we cannot generalize? You didn't complain about the generalizations in here when you agreed with them (d-head dads etc).

I came from a similar situation as you mentioned, it doesn't give you some moral authority to have a go at a poster.
Click to expand...

There will always be welfare cheats. When there's money involved, people will try and find ways to acquire it using dubious means.

This does not mean the system we have is faulty. It helps out those who are not as fortunate as we are, by and large, and we should support that. By all means cut down on inefficiencies and prosecute those committing welfare fraud (because they also hurt those who legitimately need it), but the government is going overboard in a bid to save their bottom line by painting those on welfare as scum. If people need to claim the dole, look into why they can't get a job. If single parents are exploding in number, and they cannot support their family, then look into why people are having kids when they aren't ready for it.

It always reminds me of Freakonomics - with the legalisation of abortion after Roe v Wade, crime rates dropped dramatically about 15-20 years afterwards - their argument was mothers no longer felt obliged to give birth and could put off having babies until they were ready. Governments spend too much time fighting the symptoms and not the causes when doing so would save them so much more money in the long run. I guess it doesn't buy votes or improve the next budget's forecast, though.

More importantly, I apologise to Fryman for overreacting. Sorry.
 
Forward Press said:
It always reminds me of Freakonomics - with the legalisation of abortion after Roe v Wade, crime rates dropped dramatically about 15-20 years afterwards - their argument was mothers no longer felt obliged to give birth and could put off having babies until they were ready.
Click to expand...

I loved Freakonomics as well. I thought their theory was fantastic and made a ton of sense. Except it was methodologically flawed.
http://www.economist.com/node/5246700

They didn't control for the right factors and when other researchers recreated their theory using correct controls the effect of abortion on crime rates vanished.

The latest theory has to do with removing lead from the environment(as crazy as that sounds).

But you bring up an interesting paradox, why has the greater availability of birth control lead to a greater increase in single mothers. Condoms, contraceptive pill, iud's and as a last resort abortion are all far more accessible then they were in the 60's, yet single motherhood has done nothing but rise.
 

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beta_condition said:
Two negatives don't make something ok, both are disgusting and should be called out.
Click to expand...

I think we can all agree that violence on someone because they have differing political beliefs or because they are of a certain ethnic group should be condemned.
 
beta_condition said:
Two negatives don't make something ok, both are disgusting and should be called out.
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Absolutely agree, wasnt what i was saying. However, you have conservatives on here saying that "the violent left have to be stopped" and refusing to admit violence on all sides. Some were trying to blame Bernie Sanders and Democrats for the POS that went to a Republican event and shot Scalise.

Its obvious that Trump's rhetoric has led to the current level of antagonism in the US today. Is that an excuse for the violence? Ofcourse not. Much like terrorist acts, clearly western foreign policy in the ME has had some effect on the increase in attacks in recent times. That does not excuse terrorism in any way either. But actions have consequences whether we think they should or not.
 
Showbags said:
Its obvious that Trump's rhetoric has led to the current level of antagonism in the US today.
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Bullshit

The day after day of Pelosi,Waters etc screaming about everything Trump does being evil,racist,sexist etc ad nauseaum
Others calling for fighting and blood

The worst thing Trump did was win the unwinnable election
 
Showbags said:
Its obvious that Trump's rhetoric has led to the current level of antagonism in the US today.
Click to expand...

It's true. Just look at the case of Nabra Hassanen, a 17 year old Muslim girl beaten to death. Before a suspect was known this was labelled a hate crime and a sign of Trump's America.

But, oops, turns out her murderer was an illegal immigrant from El Salvador. The exact people Trump is trying to keep out.
 
WA ROO said:
Bullshit

The day after day of Pelosi,Waters etc screaming about everything Trump does being evil,racist,sexist etc ad nauseaum
Others calling for fighting and blood

The worst thing Trump did was win the unwinnable election
Click to expand...

The unwinnable election yeah......against the worst most establishment candidate in the history of the Democrats. Shows how hated they both were that turnout was so low and neither won the election with any sort of ease. If he was a decent candidate he would have destroyed Clinton.

Trump also ran on pure lies. Making up bullshit about how he was going to stand up and fight wallstreet and the military industrial complex. Has done the complete opposite once in office.
 
WA ROO said:
Bullshit

The day after day of Pelosi,Waters etc screaming about everything Trump does being evil,racist,sexist etc ad nauseaum
Others calling for fighting and blood

The worst thing Trump did was win the unwinnable election
Click to expand...
And, he is going to put solar panels all over the USA/Mexico wall that's being built....
That's forward thinking by the Trumpster.
HE THE MAN......
 
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