Hypocrisy of The Left - part 2

Status
Not open for further replies.
Joined
Jun 19, 2007
Posts
32,643
Likes
34,692
Location
On the south side now
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
nil
Moderator #6,001
There is nothing else which better exposes the modern Left’s rank hypocrisy, their disregard for the facts, and their hatred for the West and all it stands for than their attitude to Islam.
I think we’re doing a lot of collective generalizing in this thread. “The left” as a homogenous, single minded group is really vocal against the mistreatment of Muslims, against the notion that Muslim=terrorist or Islam=encouraging killing etc.

Personally - I really don’t like religion as it is used as a substitute for critical thinking a lot of the time, and mad people can use it as a means of somehow justifying horrendous acts. I hate oppression of rights / but I admire religion when it encourages care for others, generosity, ethical discussions and debate (rather than dogma) etc.

But if I can speak for the left, beingthe left leaner that I am, when I hear of how Muslims are treated in this country, that they’re being spat on in the street, then I will go well out of my way to make them as a collective group of people feel welcome and accepted, because nobody deserves that kind of shit.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

The_Snake

All Australian
Joined
Dec 25, 2017
Posts
870
Likes
1,294
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
'Someone's going to get killed': Sudanese youth worker blasts top cop for downplaying African gang terror in Victoria and says it's time to stop being 'politically correct'

Even the Sudanese are fed up with Labor and the left's political correctness. When will they realise that being politically correct is doing more harm than good for the African community?

https://trib.al/t12hTVH
 

Opts

All Australian
Joined
Aug 18, 2017
Posts
941
Likes
1,005
AFL Club
Sydney
Other Teams
Brisbane Lions
Victoria Police have finally admitted - after years of riots and other gang related violence - that Melbourne has an African crime problem.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ican-gangs.html?ito=social-facebook_Australia
VicPol have known about this problem for at least 20 years. They started to take steps into fixing it but were told not to by successive Labor state governments because it was seen as discriminatory. There were subsequent attempts to do something about it but the Labor appointed Chief Commissioners refused to do anything about it because they're Bracks/Brumby/Andrews stooges.

Don't forget either that It were state govt funded legal aid agencies taking VicPol to court over black youths being targeted by Police. They should have had their funding reduced or cancelled after that.

Typical behaviour by the left. If you don't like what you hear just shut it down.
 
Joined
Jun 19, 2007
Posts
32,643
Likes
34,692
Location
On the south side now
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
nil
Moderator #6,004
VicPol have known about this problem for at least 20 years. They started to take steps into fixing it but were told not to by successive Labor state governments because it was seen as discriminatory. There were subsequent attempts to do something about it but the Labor appointed Chief Commissioners refused to do anything about it because they're Bracks/Brumby/Andrews stooges.

Don't forget either that It were state govt funded legal aid agencies taking VicPol to court over black youths being targeted by Police. They should have had their funding reduced or cancelled after that.

Typical behaviour by the left. If you don't like what you hear just shut it down.
The thing about this though is that at any given time the youth of the latest underemployed group of immigrants form gangs and violence ensues.

I remember it was the Vietnamese gangs when I was growing up.

So I don’t think its about being politically correct, I think it’s about being smart enough to realize that this is a cyclical issue and attributing the violence to a group because of their race rather than their collective economic status is where the problem lies.

So yes, at the moment the problem youth gangs are often Sudanese kids. So find the guys who are commiting the violence and whatever and stop them. What does the race even matter?
 

The_Snake

All Australian
Joined
Dec 25, 2017
Posts
870
Likes
1,294
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
The thing about this though is that at any given time the youth of the latest underemployed group of immigrants form gangs and violence ensues.

I remember it was the Vietnamese gangs when I was growing up.

So I don’t think its about being politically correct, I think it’s about being smart enough to realize that this is a cyclical issue and attributing the violence to a group because of their race rather than their collective economic status is where the problem lies.

So yes, at the moment the problem youth gangs are often Sudanese kids. So find the guys who are commiting the violence and whatever and stop them. What does the race even matter?
Race matters because that's literally the reason why the left won't do anything about it. They're too scared and have a mindset that it's racist if these African youth gangs are targeted, even though they are committing crimes. It's similar to the Muslim child sex trafficking that took place in Rotherham for over 10 years. Authorities knew about it, but did nothing about it because the men involved were Pakistani Muslims and were too afraid to be called racist by targeting them.
 
Joined
Jun 19, 2007
Posts
32,643
Likes
34,692
Location
On the south side now
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
nil
Moderator #6,006
Race matters because that's literally the reason why the left won't do anything about it. They're too scared and have a mindset that it's racist if these African youth gangs are targeted, even though they are committing crimes.
Where are you getting this from?
Are they refusing to arrest Sudanese guys? Are they not questioning them or charging them? Or do you mean the left is too scared?

I mean, are there any lefties that are out there saying "yep, we know there's violence out there in the burbs - but we don't want anything done about it because these people are Sudanese? It seems like a straw man to me.
It's similar to the Muslim child sex trafficking that took place in Rotherham for over 10 years. Authorities knew about it, but did nothing about it because the men involved were Pakistani Muslims and were too afraid to be called racist by targeting them.
Again - why do you think the reason they did nothing is race? Perhaps this sex trafficking raquet was like so many other illegal operations and found their way above the law through implicating police in their activities and bribing them?
 

The_Snake

All Australian
Joined
Dec 25, 2017
Posts
870
Likes
1,294
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
Where are you getting this from?
Are they refusing to arrest Sudanese guys? Are they not questioning them or charging them? Or do you mean the left is too scared?

I mean, are there any lefties that are out there saying "yep, we know there's violence out there in the burbs - but we don't want anything done about it because these people are Sudanese? It seems like a straw man to me.

Again - why do you think the reason they did nothing is race? Perhaps this sex trafficking raquet was like so many other illegal operations and found their way above the law through implicating police in their activities and bribing them?
Don't be so naive. Authorities in Rotherham admitted that they feared being labelled racists by others such as their colleagues and the general public, so nothing was done. You're kidding yourself if there isn't a similar mindset in Victoria. Now that it's common knowledge around the country that Melbourne has an African youth problem, we might actually see something done. It's sad that it's taken this long, but the police and Labor couldn't hide sweep this problem under the carpet any longer.
 
Joined
Jun 19, 2007
Posts
32,643
Likes
34,692
Location
On the south side now
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
nil
Moderator #6,008
Don't be so naive. Authorities in Rotherham admitted that they feared being labelled racists by others such as their colleagues and the general public, so nothing was done. You're kidding yourself if there isn't a similar mindset in Victoria. Now that it's common knowledge around the country that Melbourne has an African youth problem, we might actually see something done. It's sad that it's taken this long, but the police and Labor couldn't hide sweep this problem under the carpet any longer.
I’m being naive but you can read the mindset of an entire police force and you think a single newspaper article will change the entire landscape?

It’s fine to admit that it’s your opinion rather than fact.

How does this fear of racism manifest? Tell me? Are they instructed not to arrest Sudanese people? Do they ignore complaints if someone mentions the word sudanese?

There is a problem. Sudanese gangs are in the middle of it - but everything else you’ve said about the issue is total supposition - a narrative rather than a complete set of facts.

The story I’ve heard from people involved with blue ribbon etc is that their hands are quite tied due to many of the offenders being underage, and that the kids know exactly how much they can get away with. The police aren’t scared of applying the law or looking racist. There is a fear with some of them that the force is ill-equipped to deal with huge numbers of violent teens and quite a few officers have been assualted - but that’s a very different issue to being too scared to appear racist.
 

geelong_crazy26

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Jan 13, 2006
Posts
18,392
Likes
8,702
Location
melbourne
AFL Club
Geelong
Other Teams
geelong
I think we’re doing a lot of collective generalizing in this thread. “The left” as a homogenous, single minded group is really vocal against the mistreatment of Muslims, against the notion that Muslim=terrorist or Islam=encouraging killing etc.

Personally - I really don’t like religion as it is used as a substitute for critical thinking a lot of the time, and mad people can use it as a means of somehow justifying horrendous acts. I hate oppression of rights / but I admire religion when it encourages care for others, generosity, ethical discussions and debate (rather than dogma) etc.

But if I can speak for the left, beingthe left leaner that I am, when I hear of how Muslims are treated in this country, that they’re being spat on in the street, then I will go well out of my way to make them as a collective group of people feel welcome and accepted, because nobody deserves that kind of shit.
Come on Muslims are not being spat on in this country. This whole idea that Muslims are a victim group is a left wing fairytale.

Can you share with us a link to the reports about Muslims being spat on in Australia ?
 

RobbieK

Club Legend
Joined
Aug 20, 2009
Posts
1,830
Likes
2,509
Location
Berlin
AFL Club
Sydney
Come on Muslims are not being spat on in this country. This whole idea that Muslims are a victim group is a left wing fairytale.

Can you share with us a link to the reports about Muslims being spat on in Australia ?
http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/re...c/news-story/5133bca6bb0be0221fd37521efd2c968

http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2017-...k-of-islamophobic-attacks/8688856?pfmredir=sm

https://www.sbs.com.au/news/melbour...s-disturbing-and-brazen-islamophobia-register

https://amp.smh.com.au/nsw/four-mus...-attacks-near-uts-ultimo-20170511-gw2pvy.html

https://amp.watoday.com.au/wa-news/...r-bottle-in-perths-south-20161219-gtdx47.html

https://i.stuff.co.nz/world/austral...car-attacked-in-australian-university-carpark

That's a dump from page one of a Google search, including a number of physical assaults far more serious than just spitting, all from the last 12 months or so, all with clear anti-Muslim sentiment as a motivating factor.

Fairytale?
 

geelong_crazy26

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Jan 13, 2006
Posts
18,392
Likes
8,702
Location
melbourne
AFL Club
Geelong
Other Teams
geelong
What group of people do you think is most responsible for violence against muslim women ? I can promise you it isn’t white Christian men
 
Last edited:

(Log in to remove this ad.)

RobbieK

Club Legend
Joined
Aug 20, 2009
Posts
1,830
Likes
2,509
Location
Berlin
AFL Club
Sydney
What group of people do you think is most responsible for violence against muslim women ? I can promise you its whites Christian men
I think I'll just quote you and leave it here. ;)

Oh, you edited it :(

Seriously though, you asked for evidence, you were given it, you are now trying to change the argument rather than acknowledge it.

Of course, it wouldn't surprise anyone that domestic violence is the biggest threat to Muslim women - that is true for all women regardless of background. It doesn't change the fact the Muslims are all too often targeted by people on the street with random acts of violence purely because of their faith. Women cop it in particular because their clothing can be a clear indicator of their religion. It isn't a fairytale, it happens all too regularly.
 
Last edited:

yebiga

Anglo Guilt - suck it up
Joined
Aug 1, 2008
Posts
10,468
Likes
10,874
Location
Mens Gallery
AFL Club
Western Bulldogs
The acceptance by Western Progressives of Muslim practices regarding girls and women hiding their faces or body is simply Wrong.
These practices are demeaning to women. The burka is a clear signal of male superiority. Girls are inculcated and groomed to hide themselves. The practice tells Muslim boys that their is something shameful about a womens body. Or worse that her very face must be hidden.

As a secular westerner, I can accept religious differences, rituals and practices which are benign but this is not benign. This is offensive. Adult Muslim women who defend the burka cannot speak for every Muslim girl. How many by temperament alone must feel humiliated, negated, ostracised by gender? How can those who support the rights of homosexuals and transgenders keep quiet at this anachronistic abomination which condemns young girls to hide themselves? How does this not perpetuate in Muslim men the belief that they are superior?

This sexism was part of Christian Culture for centuries - we grew out of it. Can we at least be honest enough to say this is not acceptable - its backward - its harmful and it needs to stop.

I know progressives want to be respectful of a people who Western Governments have treated abominably - but lets not confuse the matter. Our foreign policies have been reprehensible. This does not mean we lie to ourselves or them to appease our conscience.

Honesty is sometimes tough. You can't on the one had demand equality for women but defend burka's imposed on children FFS!
 

Soft Downhill Skier

2008-2010 wasn't me.
Joined
Sep 21, 2004
Posts
34,055
Likes
26,793
AFL Club
GWS
The acceptance by Western Progressives of Muslim practices regarding girls and women hiding their faces or body is simply Wrong.
These practices are demeaning to women. The burka is a clear signal of male superiority. Girls are inculcated and groomed to hide themselves. The practice tells Muslim boys that their is something shameful about a womens body. Or worse that her very face must be hidden.

As a secular westerner, I can accept religious differences, rituals and practices which are benign but this is not benign. This is offensive. Adult Muslim women who defend the burka cannot speak for every Muslim girl. How many by temperament alone must feel humiliated, negated, ostracised by gender? How can those who support the rights of homosexuals and transgenders keep quiet at this anachronistic abomination which condemns young girls to hide themselves? How does this not perpetuate in Muslim men the belief that they are superior?

This sexism was part of Christian Culture for centuries - we grew out of it. Can we at least be honest enough to say this is not acceptable - its backward - its harmful and it needs to stop.

I know progressives want to be respectful of a people who Western Governments have treated abominably - but lets not confuse the matter. Our foreign policies have been reprehensible. This does not mean we lie to ourselves or them to appease our conscience.

Honesty is sometimes tough. You can't on the one had demand equality for women but defend burka's imposed on children FFS!
Very broadly speaking, the left believes that very few choice are made with total agency, especially the historically oppressed.

The most obvious example is beaten women staying in an abusive relationship. They don’t really choose to stay.

Some on the left make the argument that these women choose to wear it which is surface level true. But they don’t apply the same analysis of agency. So they’re essentially arguing these women have total agency in choosing, which is true for some, not for plenty of others.

The main reason is obvious. It’s a fine line between critiquing a power structure and falling into the bullshit line of the alt right.

The other reason is the embrace of more post structural analyses which sees agency where old Marxists wouldn’t.
 

yebiga

Anglo Guilt - suck it up
Joined
Aug 1, 2008
Posts
10,468
Likes
10,874
Location
Mens Gallery
AFL Club
Western Bulldogs
Very broadly speaking, the left believes that very few choice are made with total agency, especially the historically oppressed.

The most obvious example is beaten women staying in an abusive relationship. They don’t really choose to stay.

Some on the left make the argument that these women choose to wear it which is surface level true. But they don’t apply the same analysis of agency. So they’re essentially arguing these women have total agency in choosing, which is true for some, not for plenty of others.

The main reason is obvious. It’s a fine line between critiquing a power structure and falling into the bullshit line of the alt right.

The other reason is the embrace of more post structural analyses which sees agency where old Marxists wouldn’t.
The alt right! So policy positions are decided on whether it might or might not align with your opponent! This is patently both disingenuous and absurd.

As is your reference to post structuralism. Never in the history of mankind have so many words been jumbled to form a pile of semi-coherent arguments ostensibly purporting agency whilst in practice eliminating all possibility of any whatsoever.

Post-structuralism is a method for reading literature where the authors' intention and authority is no longer paramount - but the language culture and history of the text - places the reader in the drivers seat to determine meaning. As if this wasn't always obvious! Elevating what amounts to a mere reminder of perspectives to a school of thought - dressing it up as a philosophy in its on right - is much to do about nothing. As a result, we have a generation or 3 of humanities students who have been inculcated to impress each other with this embarrassing inane twaddle.
 
Joined
Sep 16, 2014
Posts
2,895
Likes
5,265
AFL Club
Richmond
I know progressives want to be respectful of a people who Western Governments have treated abominably - but lets not confuse the matter. Our foreign policies have been reprehensible. This does not mean we lie to ourselves or them to appease our conscience.

Honesty is sometimes tough. You can't on the one had demand equality for women but defend burka's imposed on children FFS!
The left has become so unhinged playing identity politics, they without question side with a mentally and culturally undeveloped group of dregs, over one of its innocent victims.

Instead of protecting women and children from the intolerance of religious muppets, they would rather shield these same imbeciles from criticism.
 

Soft Downhill Skier

2008-2010 wasn't me.
Joined
Sep 21, 2004
Posts
34,055
Likes
26,793
AFL Club
GWS
The alt right! So policy positions are decided on whether it might or might not align with your opponent! This is patently both disingenuous and absurd.
.
Not at all. Much of the bigotry is directed at Islamic women.

Who am I to tell a woman she should rip her hijab off? Sure I think she’s being brainwashed by a patriarchal thought system, but again, why do I have the right to say this, or worse yet, act on it. Telling them what they should and shouldn’t do is what you’re criticising the clerics for.
 

Father Jack

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Mar 23, 2006
Posts
17,577
Likes
10,210
Location
between hope and reality
AFL Club
West Coast
Other Teams
Tottenham Hotspur FC
The left has become so unhinged playing identity politics, they without question side with a mentally and culturally undeveloped group of dregs, over one of its innocent victims.

Instead of protecting women and children from the intolerance of religious muppets, they would rather shield these same imbeciles from criticism.
We just wasted 120 million dollars because a culturally undeveloped group of dregs refused to cease inflicting their intolerant religious muppetry on a minority, so I guess the 'left' is somewhat cynical of this bemoaning of religious intolerance.
 

yebiga

Anglo Guilt - suck it up
Joined
Aug 1, 2008
Posts
10,468
Likes
10,874
Location
Mens Gallery
AFL Club
Western Bulldogs
We just wasted 120 million dollars because a culturally undeveloped group of dregs refused to cease inflicting their intolerant religious muppetry on a minority, so I guess the 'left' is somewhat cynical of this bemoaning of religious intolerance.
I see the dilemma - you don't want to empower and sanction lunatics who will disparage muslim women on our streets. I'm not sure that is avoidable because the alternative is that you empower the continuation of the practice.

Sometimes change is difficult - shit often its difficult. I think it is possible to publicly to criticise and ask for tolerance and patience at the same time. I think its preferable to burying our heads in the sand.
 

Soft Downhill Skier

2008-2010 wasn't me.
Joined
Sep 21, 2004
Posts
34,055
Likes
26,793
AFL Club
GWS
I see the dilemma - you don't want to empower and sanction lunatics who will disparage muslim women on our streets. I'm not sure that is avoidable because the alternative is that you empower the continuation of the practice.

Sometimes change is difficult - shit often its difficult. I think it is possible to publicly to criticise and ask for tolerance and patience at the same time. I think its preferable to burying our heads in the sand.
In practical terms, what would you like to see?

Because banning religious wear is just the different side of the same coin.
 
Joined
Sep 16, 2014
Posts
2,895
Likes
5,265
AFL Club
Richmond
This drivel appeared in an article on marxist.com after the Charlie Hebdo attack. I'll chop it up so it sinks in.

This shows the real relation between the reactionary Islamists and the western right-wing.
This attack, if it is successful in its aims, will not weaken the French state or the right-wing at all. On the contrary it will strengthen it by dividing the working class on religious and national lines.
The perpetrators of the attack yesterday have done a great service to all the propagandists of racism who for many years have been engaged in an ideological guerilla war against the Muslim community.
This racist propaganda will now intensify in the coming days and weeks. The labour movement must energetically mobilise against all far-right attacks against Muslims. It must mobilise the working class to fight not just against racism but also against capitalism which spawns and nourishes it.
The 'movement' must *read it again so it sinks in* mobilise against ALL Far Right attacks against ISLAM.

This is how the Left rolls. As long as they are free to wage their war against the Right, they don't care what happens around them. Let someone else pick up the pieces.

As far as I am aware, Charlie Hebdo is a leftist publication. And they are opposed to both Islam and the right.

So what did other Lefties do when 12 of their comrades were killed by religious nutters? Did they all band together in solidarity?

Nope. They turned on their own publication.

Charlie Hebdo has often taken particular joy in flouting the Islamic ban on depictions of the Prophet Muhammad. But in recent years the magazine has gone specifically for racist and Islamophobic provocations.
https://www.newyorker.com/culture/cultural-comment/unmournable-bodies

More than two dozen writers including Junot Díaz, Joyce Carol Oates and Lorrie Moore have joined a protest against a freedom of expression award for Charlie Hebdo, signing a letter taking issue with what they see as a “reward” for the magazine’s controversial cartoons.
https://www.theguardian.com/books/2015/apr/29/writers-join-protest-charlie-hebdo-pen-award

Talk about throwing your dead mates under the bus.
 

geelong_crazy26

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Jan 13, 2006
Posts
18,392
Likes
8,702
Location
melbourne
AFL Club
Geelong
Other Teams
geelong
Not at all. Much of the bigotry is directed at Islamic women.

Who am I to tell a woman she should rip her hijab off? Sure I think she’s being brainwashed by a patriarchal thought system, but again, why do I have the right to say this, or worse yet, act on it. Telling them what they should and shouldn’t do is what you’re criticising the clerics for.
Another typical leftist hypocracy.

Your completely fine with the Muslims treating their women second class abusing them through control and forcing them to be shameful of their bodies by covering them up, you say you have no right to interfere.

Yet the left are happy to go around telling everyone else in the country that their actions are someway evil and wrong. Everything is bigoted, racist, homophobic, transphobic, sexist. Telling everyone how to think speak act and interfere with violence if they express freedom of speech. Yet when Muslim women are oppressed by Muslim men in such ways, you want to sit back and not get involved calling it freedom of choice.

Talk about the hypocrisy of the left at its best.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom