Society/Culture Hypocrisy of The Left - part 3

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iBeng

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If anyone wants to celebrate Trumps latest police changes, remember this:


All hes doing is undoing what he threw away 3 years ago and ignoring anything to do with police accountability.

But that's the right thing to do.
 

SherbertLemon

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Really, I want people of all races and political opinions to find a middle ground. We’re all people and I hate all of this stupid sh*t that’s going on with looting. I hate that good cops are being conflated with racists along with genuinely peaceful protests.

But how the hell do you find common ground when arguments consist of
1. We need to defund the police.
2. if you don’t agree you’re racist.

It’s so hard to have a conversation in good faith.
 

Evolved1

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Really, I want people of all races and political opinions to find a middle ground. We’re all people and I hate all of this stupid sh*t that’s going on with looting. I hate that good cops are being conflated with racists along with genuinely peaceful protests.

But how the hell do you find common ground when arguments consist of
1. We need to defund the police.
2. if you don’t agree you’re racist.

It’s so hard to have a conversation in good faith.
I'll listen. What's your idea of a middle ground?
 

Father Jack

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Really, I want people of all races and political opinions to find a middle ground. We’re all people and I hate all of this stupid sh*t that’s going on with looting. I hate that good cops are being conflated with racists along with genuinely peaceful protests.

But how the hell do you find common ground when arguments consist of
1. We need to defund the police.
2. if you don’t agree you’re racist.

It’s so hard to have a conversation in good faith.
Whose argument consisted of that?
 

Gethelred

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Really, I want people of all races and political opinions to find a middle ground. We’re all people and I hate all of this stupid sh*t that’s going on with looting. I hate that good cops are being conflated with racists along with genuinely peaceful protests.

But how the hell do you find common ground when arguments consist of
1. We need to defund the police.
2. if you don’t agree you’re racist.

It’s so hard to have a conversation in good faith.
I don't disagree with that at all.

However...

Neither of those arguments are left wing arguments, and neither of them evince hypocrisy, so this is probably the wrong thread for this discussion.
 

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iBeng

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Really, I want people of all races and political opinions to find a middle ground. We’re all people and I hate all of this stupid sh*t that’s going on with looting. I hate that good cops are being conflated with racists along with genuinely peaceful protests.

But how the hell do you find common ground when arguments consist of
1. We need to defund the police.
2. if you don’t agree you’re racist.

It’s so hard to have a conversation in good faith.
Because your version of defund the police would be...and I'm assuming here but, the complete removal of funding?

I dont want that. I want better distribution of funding that addresses the core issues of why they need funding in the first place.

I've been told that makes me an asshole.
 

SherbertLemon

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I'll listen. What's your idea of a middle ground?
Hey guys, when I said that, it was more a pointed comment of frustration at the current political arena, and not a go at any of you specifically.
And this is kind of derailing the point of the thread. But I'd like to just say this if it's okay.
And I want to thank you for asking this. It's important and helps build a platform that isn't just shouting matches.

I don't see how you can find a 'middle ground' without addressing racial inequality.
Boom. That's exactly the kind of comment which makes it god damn impossible to have a rational conversation. You get a bunch of people clapping, you embarrass the person wanting to discuss the issue. It's not helpful. At all. And it builds dissent.

A middle ground. Okay.
I will concede that racism and police brutality exists. It does. It's just silly to deny the existence of it completely.
What I have a real problem with is declarative statements that this is the only issue at play.

It's very nuanced. Cops and emergency services eat a line of sh*t every day, and to say blanket statements about the people who protect the most vulnerable, who deal with the homeless, who deal with domestic violence cases, I think is the wrong way to go about it.

I think that police, in general, are a bit too heavy-handed in America, this is not a racial issue, and needs to be addressed.
Also, cops in America fear getting shot because of the availability of high power firearms. The crime rates (especially in the hood) are off the charts.
I wouldn't go in there because I'd be sh*t scared, and those who do probably go in there very primed and ready.

Additionally, culture is important. Police deal with an attitude of "snitches get stitches". Which means solving a murder is completely impossible.
There's a distrust of them which is largely due to historical abuse, and i get that. But black people are cops too, and this needs to change.
There's a vicious cycle, high crime rates mean a high police presence. Kids growing up seeing this hatred and will beget hatred.

How to fix this? sh*t i don't know. But it's not just "Racism, damn racism". How do we fix youth culture which is fed this narrative?
I wouldn't be a police. Fk that. Tough gig, and they're being made to look like monsters.

But at the same time, seeing that video of a man beg for his mother made me sick. And ANY police officer who does that should be charged with murder.
Sorry for the derail. I just see this issue never going away in the next 100 years.
 

SherbertLemon

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So if we cant fix it why even try.
It's our approach man.
If we victimise the people who keep us safe it perpetuates this distrust and then more crime.

If we sell this narrative on a broad scale, what the hell is it going to do?
The people committing the crime will be galvanised, hell, even amused.
They're not going to stop selling heroin and terrorising the locals.

Fixing this takes generations. but we can if we start acknowledging the problem on both sides.
Asian Americans were put in internment camps during WW2 - and you can bet that they dealt with a crap ton of racism.
But they have a culture of conscientious work and diligence. Almost bordering on unrealistic expectations of their children.
They are now the richest racial group in America irrespective of the fact they faced racism and the fact they were immigrants.

True, it's not an exact comparison. But its something.
 

iBeng

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It's our approach man.
If we victimise the people who keep us safe it perpetuates this distrust and then more crime.

If we sell this narrative on a broad scale, what the hell is it going to do?
The people committing the crime will be galvanised, hell, even amused.
They're not going to stop selling heroin and terrorising the locals.

Fixing this takes generations. but we can if we start acknowledging the problem on both sides.
Asian Americans were put in internment camps during WW2 - and you can bet that they dealt with a crap ton of racism.
But they have a culture of conscientious work and diligence. Almost bordering on unrealistic expectations of their children.
They are now the richest racial group in America irrespective of the fact they faced racism and the fact they were immigrants.

True, it's not an exact comparison. But its something.
I take it you dont believe in evolution then? Change for survival? We have evolved past just survival of the fittest. Thats why we have warnings like "DONT OPEN THIS DOOR IN FLIGHT".
 

SherbertLemon

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I take it you dont believe in evolution then? Change for survival? We have evolved past just survival of the fittest. Thats why we have warnings like "DONT OPEN THIS DOOR IN FLIGHT".
Sorry mate, I don't really understand why you make that assertion? Or where you're going with this of thinking at all?
Can you explain what made you say that?
What part of my suggestion says that people shouldn't change for the better?
Are you suggesting that what is going on is evolution?
 

iBeng

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Sorry mate, I don't really understand why you make that assertion? Or where you're going with this of thinking at all?
Can you explain what made you say that?
What part of my suggestion says that people shouldn't change for the better?
Are you suggesting that what is going on is evolution?
We make changes in society that makes everyones life better. Thats why we stopped slavery. Thats why we have laws. Thats why we punish transgressions. Thats why we dont accept things our ancestors would find acceptable. Thats why we learn, acknowledge and grow and its why society is where it is right now.
 

SherbertLemon

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We make changes in society that makes everyones life better. Thats why we stopped slavery. Thats why we have laws. Thats why we punish transgressions. Thats why we dont accept things our ancestors would find acceptable. Thats why we learn, acknowledge and grow and its why society is where it is right now.
Agreed... But you're arguing against a point I haven't made? (I hate the term "strawman")
Where have I said that we shouldn't change...? That would be a silly point to make.
I just think the change shouldn't be rioting, looting local business, creating independent states and demonising the police as if the issue isn't a little bit more nuanced? I made the point that change should be black culture and less heavy handed police?

A lot of white people fought a bloke named Hitler.
There were riots (kristallnacht) which I'm sure they thought was a good idea at the time - but were morally reprehensible?.

BLM decided it would be a good idea to deface the statue of Winston Churchill, who was the one man who halted Hilter's progress in Europe.
If it wasn't for him, Hilter would have made England a vassal state, America would have lost the staging point to invade France and there would have been one front for Hilter to fight on.

He would have defeated the Soviets and then made his way down northern Africa and butchered every black person he saw.
That was not a positive change.

But BLM defaced the state of they guy who pushed back against white supremacy... I think there's a lot of silliness going on man.
 

iBeng

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Agreed... But you're arguing against a point I haven't made? (I hate the term "strawman")
Where have I said that we shouldn't change...? That would be a silly point to make.
I just think the change shouldn't be rioting, looting local business, creating independent states and demonising the police as if the issue isn't a little bit more nuanced? I made the point that change should be black culture and less heavy handed police?

A lot of white people fought a bloke named Hitler.
There were riots (kristallnacht) which I'm sure they thought was a good idea at the time - but were morally reprehensible?.

BLM decided it would be a good idea to deface the statue of Winston Churchill, who was the one man who halted Hilter's progress in Europe.
If it wasn't for him, Hilter would have made England a vassal state, America would have lost the staging point to invade France and there would have been one front for Hilter to fight on.

He would have defeated the Soviets and then made his way down northern Africa and butchered every black person he saw.
That was not a positive change.

But BLM defaced the state of they guy who pushed back against white supremacy... I think there's a lot of silliness going on man.
The rioting is BECAUSE the calls for change have been ignored by the people who the change would not benefit.

Example: Obama put forth laws to combat the lack of police accountability.

Trump removed those laws almost immediately when in power.

How does that help?
 

Nuke Fremantle

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Apologies if this has been covered already, I don't often visit this board.

The thought occurred to me in the wake of Tony Abbott's recent OA gong that he often used to be ridiculed for '3 word slogans' and to a certain extent the criticism was deserved.

BLM. Difference much?
 

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