Society/Culture Hypocrisy of The Left - part 3

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Lethality

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Leftists should be the most vigilant against things like cancel culture instead of conveniently denying its existence or becoming this defensive about it.
 

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Lethality

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But you don’t believe it, of course.
I was being sarcastic.

Downhill skier believes in cancel culture just not on 'his side'. That's no better than the right wing hypocrites he talks about.
 

skybeau

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Which part do you consider to be in breach? If it's evidence, you haven't asked for evidence of anything, you asked for a sample article that would be a good example of my ideas, however I already stated what those were, well enough that we even began talking about them. I thought our brief chat was amicable enough before you abruptly abandoned it for some reason. Surely leaving a discussion would be the breach.
Let's recap.
You posted an article you thought was interesting because it supported your view about education. Then you decided that you didn't actually like the article.
You could not supply the report the article was based upon, after multiple requests, instead told us to find the report ourselves. When I couldn't but supplied you the link where it was probably drawn from, you ignored it.
You then offered a few reasons about why males are suffering in education, something about gender bias, lack of male teachers. But nothing to support that, not even personal anecdotes or anything.
You implied that there was a real reason why males are suffering (which at that stage, I took to mean something about the feminising of education as your article suggested, or something about the left). At this stage, you'd pretty much lost me.
And then, after one final opportunity for you to present something of substance to support your viewpoint, you told me to do my own research.
So I apologise if you felt it was an abrupt abandonment, but you had plenty of opportunity to present your case. You didn't, and I gave up.

But if you wanted to learn more, here: an article, on the internet!!!
Or go look at this forum: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/forums/education-and-employment.314/
 

Lethality

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Let's recap.
You posted an article you thought was interesting because it supported your view about education. Then you decided that you didn't actually like the article.
No, I already did not support the article and explained that's why I lifted a quote from it that more or less summarised the situation with regards to education and boys right now. I already explained this. See Step 2 of the flowchart.

You could not supply the report the article was based upon
I made it clear the report in that article was not particularly important. Several times. Step 2.

You then offered a few reasons about why males are suffering in education, something about gender bias, lack of male teachers. But nothing to support that, not even personal anecdotes or anything.
You asked me so I proferred a few ideas off the top of my head. I'm not married to those, they're just speculation to get the ball rolling, plus I had read a few of them today.

And then, after one final opportunity for you to present something of substance to support your viewpoint, you told me to do my own research.
So I apologise if you felt it was an abrupt abandonment, but you had plenty of opportunity to present your case. You didn't, and I gave up.
That abandonment I was referring to was before that, when our cordial discussion ended.My viewpoint is that the Left don't really talk about this. It's not possible to provide evidence of a negative if that's what you're after.

But if you wanted to learn more, here: an article, on the internet!!!
Yeah I can't really make much of that article. Do you have a more user friendly and shorter version that I can understand? It has some interesting details but I don't really know what the big picture is supposed to be here.
 
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Gethelred

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Leftists should be the most vigilant against things like cancel culture instead of conveniently denying its existence or becoming this defensive about it.
I'm interested in why we should listen to you when you tell us what you think we should do.

Are you an expert in what Leftists think or how they behave?
 

Lethality

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I'm interested in why we should listen to you when you tell us what you think we should do.

Are you an expert in what Leftists think or how they behave?
It's not about listening to me per se, but the left are supposed to be against bullying, violence, intimidation etc.
 

Gethelred

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It's not about listening to me per se, but the left are supposed to be against bullying, violence, intimidation etc.
I think it's interesting to be informed about what we're meant to oppose, instead of leaving that up to our good selves.

Almost like you've constructed 'the Left' out of straw.
 

Lethality

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I think it's interesting to be informed about what we're meant to oppose, instead of leaving that up to our good selves.

Almost like you've constructed 'the Left' out of straw.
It's up to you how you want to behave, but that side of the political spectrum supposedly stands against those things. Hence the hypocrisy when they use it to achieve their aims.
 

Gethelred

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It's up to you how you want to behave, but that side of the political spectrum supposedly stands against those things. Hence the hypocrisy when they use it to achieve their aims.
Isn't it easy when you've created a box, crammed all those who disagree with you into it, and closed it so you don't have to listen to them?

Must be lovely. Quiet, too.
 

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Lethality

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Isn't it easy when you've created a box, crammed all those who disagree with you into it, and closed it so you don't have to listen to them?

Must be lovely. Quiet, too.
I don't need to shut out disagreement, what are you disputing?
 

Gethelred

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I don't need to shut out disagreement, what are you disputing?
Because you've created a false depiction, called it 'the left', and have proceeded to demostrate its hypocrisy. You are, in essence, not arguing with me; you're arguing with your own disingenuousness.

It's why people accuse you of being a time waster.

You're a sealion.
 

Lethality

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Because you've created a false depiction, called it 'the left', and have proceeded to demostrate its hypocrisy. You are, in essence, not arguing with me; you're arguing with your own disingenuousness.
You're saying that people on the left side of the political spectrum don't organise to bully, harrass, intimidate or occasionally attack people who hold opinions they disagree with?
 

Sweet Jesus

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What new progressive orthodoxies?

And try not to use the word woke.
As it pertains to cancel culture, I'd say we're broadly talking about progressive orthodoxies relating to racial and social justice, gender identity, sexual preference and sexual consent. These are of course amplified by social media, which skews younger and more woke.

The students felt he promoted outdated racial stereotypes.

He resigned from teaching that class but is still employed there.

Students have a right to voice their opinions. I think a better solution is an open dialogue but he chose to resign.

Another cancel culture story destroyed.
That's an oversimplification.

He wasn't "promoting" blackface. He wasn't saying "blackface is great". That's ridiculous. Showing a film from 1965 shouldn't be grounds to call for a professor to be removed from teaching a class.

There was an impulse to have him removed, which is the issue.
 
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Sweet Jesus

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He didn’t resign.


A spokesman for the university, Kim Broekhuizen, confirmed that the incident had been referred to the university’s Office of Equity, Civil Rights and Title IX for investigation, but emphasized that Professor Sheng had stepped down from the class voluntarily, was still teaching individual studios, and was scheduled to teach next semester.

“We do not shy away from addressing racism or any other difficult topic with our students,” Ms. Broekhuizen said in an email to The Times. But “in this particular instance, the appropriate context or historical perspective was not provided and the professor has acknowledged that.”


From what I can see, the University and the industry had some ongoing discussions about the issue of blackface in opera. It’s a bit more complicated and it looks like everyone is trying to navigate a path through it.

It sounds a little over the top, but it also sounds like the University system the world over going through a conversion to a more commercial “the student is the customer” mindset.
So the question is whether the backlash - the impulse to have him removed - was justified.
 
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Soft Downhill Skier

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As it pertains to cancel culture, I'd say we're broadly talking about progressive orthodoxies relating to racial and social justice, gender identity, sexual preference and sexual consent. These are of course amplified by social media, which skews younger and more woke.
Does it give you any pause that you're using a term used by those generally opposed to most of those things?

They know they can avoid meaningful discussions about these issues by yelling woke or cancel culture.
 

Sweet Jesus

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Does it give you any pause that you're using a term used by those generally opposed to most of those things?

They know they can avoid meaningful discussions about these issues by yelling woke or cancel culture.
That is not a sensible criticism.

Some wingnuts use a term disingenuously to cloak their own biases so it become off-limits for everyone? No, I don't think so. That's just an attempt to police speech and short-circuit even legitimate criticism.

Some RWers complain dishonestly about "identity politics" whenever they can. That doesn't mean that identity politics should never be criticised. Some aspects of identity politics warrant criticism.

How do we know when the progressive left has gone too far? How do we know when its requests have become unreasonable? There must be a point. How would we recognise it?

I'd say some of those new progressive orthodoxies are at least up for debate. We can't just insist that they're now the only acceptable reality and simply demand everyone complies.
 
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Soft Downhill Skier

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That is not a sensible criticism.

Some wingnuts use a term disingenuously to cloak their own biases so it become off-limits for everyone? No, I don't think so. That's just an attempt to police speech and short-circuit even legitimate criticism.

Some RWers complain dishonestly about "identity politics" whenever they can. That doesn't mean that identity politics should never be criticised. Some aspects of identity politics warrant criticism.

How do we know when the progressive left has gone too far? How do we know when its requests have become unreasonable? There must be a point. How would we recognise it?

I'd say some of those new progressive orthodoxies are at least up for debate. We can't just insist that they're now the only acceptable reality and simply demand everyone complies.
Police speech.

Give it a ******* rest.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com
 

Sweet Jesus

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Police speech.

Give it a ******* rest.
Well, you're saying my arguments are invalid because I've used certain phrases. That's clearly an unreasonable criticism. You're basically suggesting that certain concepts are unsayable.

Some bad faith RWers dishonestly complain about "cancel culture" so it's impossible for anyone sensible to have valid concerns about it? No, sorry. That rhetorical sleight of hand won't pass.

I'll assess the arguments on their merits, thanks, not based on which words are taboo or not.

And, indeed, you've chosen to ignore the broader point of my post because I've used a certain phrase.

That's not good enough.

How do we know when the progressive left goes too far? How do we know when their arguments have become unreasonable?
 
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Sweet Jesus

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