Opinion Hypothetical 2021 Best 22

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HODGEYROAD

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Gotta be HBF mate. We need his run from there & he's not preformed consistently well as that pressure forward at either club.
I do think that's his best position no doubt. I just think our small forward options are so deplorable I'm getting desperate, Hanrahan, Nash or Morris ? I'd prefer none to be best 22.
 

Brant

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I do think that's his best position no doubt. I just think our small forward options are so deplorable I'm getting desperate, Hanrahan, Nash or Morris ? I'd prefer none to be best 22.
Gunston.....................Lewis.....................O'Meara/Wingard
Burgoyne/Worpel.....Patton............Bruest

We need our mids resting forward & being productive or we're going to be stuck playing Hanrahan +/or Nash or having crazy conversations about sending Hardwick forward.

Ideally, we grab a DFA or State League (mature age) player that forces Burgoyne out but until then, mids gonna have to do it.
 

Brant

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Wish we still had Luke Lowden.

A mobile ruckman that averages 3 goals a game would be very handy about now...
 

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Yardie

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Gotta be HBF mate. We need his run from there & he's not preformed consistently well as that pressure forward at either club.
I still cannot fathom why we don't try Hardwick up forward and leave the back spot for Impey
 

mustang

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Will be interesting what style we do play next year seeing we got McRae from Richmond surely we would be working on a game plan that beats Richmond as he would be talking about what kind of style of game does Richmond struggle against.
 

Dew2KFC2Flag08

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I do think that's his best position no doubt. I just think our small forward options are so deplorable I'm getting desperate, Hanrahan, Nash or Morris ? I'd prefer none to be best 22.
It’s a massive concern. Has not been addressed in 2 years now since the Cyril retirement and decline of Poppy.
 

almuz

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What I'd like to happen:

FB: Hardwick - Hartley - Greaves

HB: Impey - Frost - Scrimshaw

C: Day - Mitchell - Phillips

FOL: Mcevoy - O'Meara - Worpel

HF: Wingard - O'Brien - Cousins

FF: Gunston - Lewis - Bruest

INT: Burgoyne Shiels Moore Hanrahan

Fast out of back 50 with some good skilled players and bring in Hartigan if we struggle with opposition talls.
 

HODGEYROAD

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What I'd like to happen:

FB: Hardwick - Hartley - Greaves

HB: Impey - Frost - Scrimshaw

C: Day - Mitchell - Phillips

FOL: Mcevoy - O'Meara - Worpel

HF: Wingard - O'Brien - Cousins

FF: Gunston - Lewis - Bruest

INT: Burgoyne Shiels Moore Hanrahan

Fast out of back 50 with some good skilled players and bring in Hartigan if we struggle with opposition talls.
We'll be bringing in Hartigan pretty rapidly if Hartley's effort against Daniher is anything to go by.
 

Walshawk

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That is potentially a 9-10 year process
Not 10. But maybe six or so. If we want a flag that is what we have to do. We need a couple of champions (Tigers don’t win the flag without Dusty, no matter how good their game plan is). Our recent trade in strategy has brought some good players but no matchwinners, and aside from Mitchell, no one you can build a side around. It was worth the try to top up post threepeat but it did not work, so yes, to rebuild properly will take quite a few seasons. Redecorating by adding Wingard, Paton (types we already have) has set us back. We all know that. Champions generally come to a club via a top 8 draft pick. It seems the club has finally accepted this. We totally rebuilt the 2001 PF team in two drafts - 2001 & 2004. Three years to get the foundations right then another four to win a flag. With free agency and more player movement, it should be quicker now. Last time we got the foundation players first, then added the role players where they were needed. Right now we have plenty of flankers, but need some A grade KPPs and should get one each via the draft year we are bottom six. Which will be this year and probably the next two. Plus we will need to trade out some quality players next year for high draft picks. That will set us up for the next 12 years or so. I hate to see our premiership players in other colours so for mine hopefully someone like Wingard gets a good offer elsewhere next year.
 

Walshawk

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My team was based on form of which McEvoy is a head of Hartley. We also seen that if our mids are on top, they pressure the oppo mids and bring McEvoy into play with intercept marking. The key is can our mids remaining on top for extended time in a game???? Suspect that Hartley will get his time and agree from what we seen Hartley kicking is very good.
McEvoy takes more intercept marks when he plays in the ruck. It not great one on one. Much better cutting across the pack. If required Hartley can be the third tall and also take kick outs.
 

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Pessimistic

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Not 10. But maybe six or so. If we want a flag that is what we have to do. We need a couple of champions (Tigers don’t win the flag without Dusty, no matter how good their game plan is). Our recent trade in strategy has brought some good players but no matchwinners, and aside from Mitchell, no one you can build a side around. It was worth the try to top up post threepeat but it did not work, so yes, to rebuild properly will take quite a few seasons. Redecorating by adding Wingard, Paton (types we already have) has set us back. We all know that. Champions generally come to a club via a top 8 draft pick. It seems the club has finally accepted this. We totally rebuilt the 2001 PF team in two drafts - 2001 & 2004. Three years to get the foundations right then another four to win a flag. With free agency and more player movement, it should be quicker now. Last time we got the foundation players first, then added the role players where they were needed. Right now we have plenty of flankers, but need some A grade KPPs and should get one each via the draft year we are bottom six. Which will be this year and probably the next two. Plus we will need to trade out some quality players next year for high draft picks. That will set us up for the next 12 years or so. I hate to see our premiership players in other colours so for mine hopefully someone like Wingard gets a good offer elsewhere next year.
I have posted a few times, where a teams records sub 80% seasons, they never win a flag within 7 years. 2 plus 7 is 9. Some are on perpetual like Carlton and Melbourne cos a club can’t hold its nerve that long. Richmond very nearly didn’t.

hawks 2004 were a whisker over 80%, but it was only one year. Clubs have recovered fairly quickly from one year, even premiership within 3 years

the ‘orthodoxy’ which came around with priority picks (which are rare now anyway) that the deeper your low, the higher your subsequent climb in the cycle.

I like to point out (as you do) that priority picks no longer come, so the orthodoxy should be what went before that. You have cycles, but you should never deliberately aim for a deep trough, that if your troughs are shallower, you can reach your high point quicker and more efficiently.

on my 80% plus 7 theory. There are a few example, but the current challengers are Port and Brisbane.
Power went sub 80% in 2011-12. They played finals in the next two years, but only last year did they seem a realistic chance. The rebuild from 2011 or 2020 is ten years. They are overdue on my theory/scale
Brisbane seem to have done it quicker. Sub 80% in 2014-16 (3 seasons) They didn’t play finals till 2019-20 are in that position but many describe them as a little ‘young’ to go all the way. 7 years from 2014-16 is 2022. Interesting to see if they achieve it.

many clubs have never gone below 80%, or not for a long time. They have many flag winners in their ranks. Adelaide this year did it for the first time ever. If they repeat in 2021, they seem to be looking at 2028 at the earliest if the ‘build the core from the draft first’

an example where it happened? tigers sub 80% in 2009-10, flag seven years in 2017. One year sub 80% in 2016 but bounced back for a premiership a year later. Richmond seem at the opposite end of the scale from hawthorn, very few trade in in the best 22.
They nearly reset completely in the tile wen the board was openly challenged, a board which has made good on its aim of three flags, 75k members and solvent by 2019 or something.

that seems to be another ingredient. Can a club hold its nerve for almost a decade? It’s something clubs aren’t inherently able to do
 
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Delecate Des

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McEvoy takes more intercept marks when he plays in the ruck. It not great one on one. Much better cutting across the pack. If required Hartley can be the third tall and also take kick outs.
Agree McEvoy is a better ruckman and intercept mark around the ground!! Based on 2020 only, I would be pleasantly surprised if he return full time to the number 1 ruck role??
 

Roger Rogerson

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Cousins has overtaken Shiels in my eyes
I would like to think we only have one of Shiels and Burgoyne in the side each week.

Shiels went from a consistent performer to having a pretty big gap between best and worst this year. Given the sort of year it was happy to cut him some slack but there are signs he is slowing down. If he played at BHH for the season and coached the youngsters on field I think that would be a win.
 

Walshawk

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I have posted a few times, where a teams records sub 80% seasons, they never win a flag within 7 years. 2 plus 7 is 9. Some are on perpetual like Carlton and Melbourne cos a club can’t hold its nerve that long. Richmond very nearly didn’t.

hawks 2004 were a whisker over 80%, but it was only one year. Clubs have recovered fairly quickly from one year, even premiership within 3 years

the ‘orthodoxy’ which came around with priority picks (which are rare now anyway) that the deeper your low, the higher your subsequent climb in the cycle.

I like to point out (as you do) that priority picks no longer come, so the orthodoxy should be what went before that. You have cycles, but you should never deliberately aim for a deep trough, that if your troughs are shallower, you can reach your high point quicker and more efficiently.

on my 80% plus 7 theory. There are a few example, but the current challengers are Port and Brisbane.
Power went sub 80% in 2011-12. They played finals in the next two years, but only last year did they seem a realistic chance. The rebuild from 2011 or 2020 is ten years. They are overdue on my theory/scale
Brisbane seem to have done it quicker. Sub 80% in 2014-16 (3 seasons) They didn’t play finals till 2019-20 are in that position but many describe them as a little ‘young’ to go all the way. 7 years from 2014-16 is 2022. Interesting to see if they achieve it.

many clubs have never gone below 80%, or not for a long time. They have many flag winners in their ranks. Adelaide this year did it for the first time ever. If they repeat in 2021, they seem to be looking at 2028 at the earliest if the ‘build the core from the draft first’

an example where it happened? tigers sub 80% in 2009-10, flag seven years in 2017. One year sub 80% in 2016 but bounced back for a premiership a year later. Richmond seem at the opposite end of the scale from hawthorn, very few trade in in the best 22.
They nearly reset completely in the tile wen the board was openly challenged, a board which has made good on its aim of three flags, 75k members and solvent by 2019 or something.

that seems to be another ingredient. Can a club hold its nerve for almost a decade? It’s something clubs aren’t inherently able to do
It took two read of your post to work out - 80% of what?
We don’t need to aim/tank to try to finish last and get pick one. We have a bottom four list and top six picks this year, next and maybe 2022 should be enough to set us up as long as we use our draft picks will then start topping up when we k ow where the gaps are. Ruck is the easiest to bring in, so I don’t mind if we just leave McEvoy/Ceglar there for a few years. Build the foundations (3 x a grade KPPs and 2 mids) first.
 

TheFourPillars

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I would like to think we only have one of Shiels and Burgoyne in the side each week.

Shiels went from a consistent performer to having a pretty big gap between best and worst this year. Given the sort of year it was happy to cut him some slack but there are signs he is slowing down. If he played at BHH for the season and coached the youngsters on field I think that would be a win.
I agree if he is as inconsistent as this year then we need to look at better options. When he was on we inevitably won especially early in the season. So yes its a wait and see approach
 

burner1

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Our best 22 is probably something like the below:

Greaves Hartigan Frost
Day Scrimshaw Impey
Scully Mitchell Phillips
Wingard Patton Breust
Gunston Lewis Hardwick
Ceglar Worpel JOM
I: Silk Shiels cousins BB

Really we have issues all over the park - our spine (Hartigan, Lewis, Patton) is highly unproven.
-Our midfield is same as this year that got beaten most weeks. Wings lack genuine speed.
-unclear if greaves or Hardwick can play as number 1 small stopper. We were spoilt with stratts (except for this year) locking down the best forward most weeks.
-small forwards remain an issue. Breust is still elite, but chad is more an opportunist flanker. We really miss puopolos and cyrils manic defensive pressure. Have put Hardwick up forward as he struggled this year and while lacks pace has some smarts.

If we decide to go a youth focus / change things up it’s probably around the midfield. Get Finn in there, wingard and Breust in rotation, maybe Day on a wing. Worpel/JOM will need to work on their forward craft (I don’t think JOM will be any good as a forward but we should try.

Greaves Hartigan Frost
CJ Scrimshaw Impey
Day Mitchell Scully
Breust Lewis JOM
Morris Jeka Gunston
Ceglar Finn wingard
I: worpel Hardwick Moore (if on list) TOB
 

Pessimistic

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It took two read of your post to work out - 80% of what?
We don’t need to aim/tank to try to finish last and get pick one. We have a bottom four list and top six picks this year, next and maybe 2022 should be enough to set us up as long as we use our draft picks will then start topping up when we k ow where the gaps are. Ruck is the easiest to bring in, so I don’t mind if we just leave McEvoy/Ceglar there for a few years. Build the foundations (3 x a grade KPPs and 2 mids) first.
80% season percentage is a good indication your young guns are experiencing thrashings on an almost weekly basis. Something Hawthorn have largely avoided, even in the dark days.
A clue to the advocates of this is when they say 'X wont be in our next flag team so......' but analysis shows a club which absorbs that mindset completely seems destined to go in a never ending cycle of trading out value.
 

rei154

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Ok assuming I get everything my own way this draft (within reason) and the club decides to take a savage hardline approach towards youthful experience:


FB: Hardwick - Kosi - Greaves

HB: Day- Frost - Scrimshaw

C: Downie - Mitchell - Phillips

FOL: Mcevoy - O'Meara - Worpel

HF: Wingard - O'Brien - Ford

FF: Gunston - Lewis - Bruest

INT: Finn Hollands Moore Patton


My only real concern here is the lack of experienced leadership down back, but even then we can cycle Gunston,BB, and TOB through there.
 

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