Hypothetical: Next Collingwood coach? (Think this is disrespectful? OK, OK, we get it)
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Scodog10
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I'll remain somewhat brief in the number of posts in this thread, much like in the megathread, because I know I can be a divisive figure on here (lol).
Next Collingwood coach for me, whenever that may be, is Chris Maple.
As a coach "type" I would like a Don Pyke/ Phil Walsh hard arse who's focus is entirely on the betterment of him and his group with all the other stuff that comes with being a senior coach secondary plus they need a mentoring style background, but you won't know you've got that mix until you interview. Even then I'm concerned with how much the executive will push the external rubbish...
To make a suggestion to Buckley in 2017 limit public appearances to mandatory press conferences and focus all energy's toward coaching. Once the players are out there you can have the best gameplan in the league, but if the players can't execute you're screwed so all off field emergies need to be aimed at enabling them to execute!
We all know how well Buckley communicates with the media we've seen enough of it plus he'll have plenty of time for that if we miss the 8 so let Sando, Burns and Harvey pick up the slack. No more AFL 360, no more SEN coaches box, no more mid week press conferences and no more sponsor meet and greets. It may only be a little one percenter, but every little bit will need to count for him to keep his job and if its good enough for Clarkson its good enough for Buckley, IMO.
Finally, and this is only spitballing, if its a close run thing say we go 12-10 and miss finals by a game we don't need to sack him necessarily just don't re-contract him immediately. Conduct a formal process with a completely independent selection panel and have him re-interview for the job. Surely he'd be confident enough to beat out the other candidates. If he's too proud to do so he isn't for us, but I'm quite sure that he would because, IMO, he won't be in high demand externally for a senior role. If he's the best candidate you extend his contract for two years and have clauses in the first so if results slide he goes.
For all the faith many have had in him it hasn't yet been re-paid and 2017 is his opportunity to do so therefore its time to act in the best interests of the club which for mine are to be more open about the senior coach's tenure, our expectations of him and his group. Hopefully he turns it around despite my confidence he won't because 4 years without finals is inconceivable so he gets my best wishes.
Next Collingwood coach for me, whenever that may be, is Chris Maple.
As a coach "type" I would like a Don Pyke/ Phil Walsh hard arse who's focus is entirely on the betterment of him and his group with all the other stuff that comes with being a senior coach secondary plus they need a mentoring style background, but you won't know you've got that mix until you interview. Even then I'm concerned with how much the executive will push the external rubbish...
To make a suggestion to Buckley in 2017 limit public appearances to mandatory press conferences and focus all energy's toward coaching. Once the players are out there you can have the best gameplan in the league, but if the players can't execute you're screwed so all off field emergies need to be aimed at enabling them to execute!
We all know how well Buckley communicates with the media we've seen enough of it plus he'll have plenty of time for that if we miss the 8 so let Sando, Burns and Harvey pick up the slack. No more AFL 360, no more SEN coaches box, no more mid week press conferences and no more sponsor meet and greets. It may only be a little one percenter, but every little bit will need to count for him to keep his job and if its good enough for Clarkson its good enough for Buckley, IMO.
Finally, and this is only spitballing, if its a close run thing say we go 12-10 and miss finals by a game we don't need to sack him necessarily just don't re-contract him immediately. Conduct a formal process with a completely independent selection panel and have him re-interview for the job. Surely he'd be confident enough to beat out the other candidates. If he's too proud to do so he isn't for us, but I'm quite sure that he would because, IMO, he won't be in high demand externally for a senior role. If he's the best candidate you extend his contract for two years and have clauses in the first so if results slide he goes.
For all the faith many have had in him it hasn't yet been re-paid and 2017 is his opportunity to do so therefore its time to act in the best interests of the club which for mine are to be more open about the senior coach's tenure, our expectations of him and his group. Hopefully he turns it around despite my confidence he won't because 4 years without finals is inconceivable so he gets my best wishes.
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JB1975
Brownlow Medallist
I can only judge Chris Maple on an overview of his CV, really don't know a thing about him as a person and what might distinguish him from any other candidate with a decent CV. In any case, the emphasis is on interview and process. We'll be doing ourselves a lot of favours if we get those sorts of things right.
I disagree in regards to Buckley's media commitments. If they are compromising his ability to focus on his job then fair enough, or if there's any suggestion that his media appearances are a grind on him then he should certainly focus more on the things that matter. I doubt this is the case, though. There's actually a good argument to suggest that minor distractions/outlets help people to focus on the main game, especially people in high-pressure environments, by allowing them to blow off steam. In other words they can help people do their job better. Buckley enjoys football and (for whatever reason) enjoys media, so if it works for him as a person then it probably works for him as a coach as well.
Scodog10
Brownlow Medallist
Precisely. I like how Maple's CV presents, but if his interview doesn't reveal what you're looking for its a no. We're the only club that's never conducted a formal interview process so its essential we do next time we appoint a senior coach.
My counterpoint would be that after 5 years is there any evidence that being so footy focused is growing him as a coach? Right now of the established coaches (1 completed season or more) I would rank him as close to the bottom four with Richo, Eade, Bolton and Hinkley. Swanny has spoken about such a full on footy emphasis not being for everyone so it might be time to try a different direction given the flagging results.
If it came out that it was tried and didn't work for whatever reason so be it, but for mine the evidence goes against it working for him ATM.
Buckley will coach Collingwood in 2018 no mater what happens this year. He won't coach forever but he'll get more chances than two or three Tony Shaws.
I'd like to think the next coach won't be a current coaching headline name but the next Clarkson/Beveridge but unfirtunately our board (President) won't take that path. I think our next coach will be a face saving headline on big money like Roos because that's how we do business at Collingwood.
I'd like to think the next coach won't be a current coaching headline name but the next Clarkson/Beveridge but unfirtunately our board (President) won't take that path. I think our next coach will be a face saving headline on big money like Roos because that's how we do business at Collingwood.
JB1975
Brownlow Medallist
The correlation between Buckley's media performances and his performance as a coach is a dubious one. Given the links between the gut and mental functioning, I think it'd be more fruitful to examine the man's diet. And so we'll disagree there.
But let's hold hands on the need for a more thoroughgoing process in appointing coaches. Such a process can yield a Neeld, but ultimately it's a healthier process.
Agree to a point. We were in a worse state when a top tier coach in MM was attracted to the club.
I think the bottom line is that if the moneys right, then coaching the biggest club in Australia has its attractions.
Scodog10
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http://www.aflca.com.au/index.php?id=17&coachID=1857961
He coached the VFL premiership in 2014 so has state level experience and he heads the most successful development program in the country.
To make it clear I'll say it again, the pick of the bunch of coaches won't have us 1st in line
Your point is moot because those gigs will not be available.
jackcass
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Totally different discussion than whether or not we're an attractive destination. Just because a coach like Bevo for example isn't interested in the senior job at Collingwood at the moment doesn't mean he thinks it's an unattractive position for him as a coach.
Yep and he had a choice i:e was looking for a gig we wouldn't be his 1st choice
True BUT if we're the gig they aren't come askin we'll have to ask them
Scodog10
Brownlow Medallist
Your logic is extremely flawed, IMO. If we were an attractive destination we wouldn't be having this discussion. What you're talking about doesn't happen in professional sport.
Of the jobs potentially up for grabs ours would be the most appealling with changes only required to the "high performance" group and some minor tweaking to the balance of the list.
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I hope you are wrong about this, but I fear you may be right.
jackcass
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As I said, agree to disagree. If through some weird phenomenon every coach found themselves looking for work in 2018, including Bucks, they'd all lodge applications for the job, except Bucks.
4poundbrain
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The next Collingwood coach will be Darcy Moore.
76woodenspooners
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Anybody of any experience will judge a role based on what's going on above them (not what's going on below them)
- We all love Ed, but we don't work for him, and he wouldn't be everybody's cup of tea.
- Speculation abounds about Gary Pert's future
- Media treatment of Collingwood makes the gig even harder than it already is
- Us Magpie supporters are hardly the most chilled cats around town
- Yeah, our facilities are awesome, but most clubs would claim that these days
- Yeah, Geoff Walsh is solid
Quicky
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What do we want in a candidate?
For me:
- Someone who can deal with the extreme media pressures applied to Collingwood
- Someone who can navigate the politics in the Collingwood administration
- Someone with a successful development background
- Someone with a successful senior coaching background, doesn't need to be at AFL level
- Someone who has been in a football department role at AFL level at a successful club
- Someone who is good at dealing with and getting the most out of different personalities.
That last point is really important for mine simply because there is such a finite pool of AFL talented players that you are going to need to deal with different personalities; you won't have the luxury to pick and choose.
For me:
- Someone who can deal with the extreme media pressures applied to Collingwood
- Someone who can navigate the politics in the Collingwood administration
- Someone with a successful development background
- Someone with a successful senior coaching background, doesn't need to be at AFL level
- Someone who has been in a football department role at AFL level at a successful club
- Someone who is good at dealing with and getting the most out of different personalities.
That last point is really important for mine simply because there is such a finite pool of AFL talented players that you are going to need to deal with different personalities; you won't have the luxury to pick and choose.
Scodog10
Brownlow Medallist
Definitely. For mine aside from Pert and the associated media burdens our senior coaching role is as desireable as any in the league if not moreso.
Ed is no different to any president we just view him differently because he has a larger public profile (if anything I'd say he'd be a kitten compared to some), our treatment by the media is incredibly overblown and we need to start looking at why we keep providing ammo instead of saying why us, we're no more out of control than any other fanbase (there's just more of us), as you said facilities are the same across the board and Walsh is as good an operator as any.
It's why I was never a huge fan of MM and I'm off Buckley because you really couldn't ask for more in that regard yet the results didn't/ don't match (with MM record in making the 8 much stronger holding the dissenters at bay).
Again though our current position, which makes this discussion relevant, has little to do with those elements aside from some nitpicking, so whilst they play a big role in the general context I believe experienced coaches would understand that the differences between one clubs off-field team and anothers are negligible.
Yes they're worthy of consideration due to the mix of personalities and agendas, but too often we consider ourselves as unique when the reality is akin to the difference between talent levels of the 1st and 2nd pick in the draft in those roles.
