Hypothetical One...

[Rooboy 96]

This should create some good discussion...

At the end of the year we merge... and have to name 22 players and 2 rookies for our new merged list... who would they be... here is my list...

Those that made my list…

The Core
Player No. Age Games Ht Wt
Glenn Archer 11 28 199 182 93
Shane Clayton 23 23 87 186 84
Stuart Cochrane 45 23 33 189 87
Leigh Colbert 2 26 134 192 92
Shannon Grant 6 24 152 178 83
Brent Harvey 29 23 109 168 73
Shannon Motlop 44 23 42 182 85
Byron Pickett 28 24 98 178 82
Mark Porter 17 25 55 199 104
Adam Simpson 7 26 136 185 86
Jess Sinclair 9 23 68 180 79

only three players over 25... remember we are hypothetically merging and would bring in another core 10-11 players...

The Kids
Hugh Foott 33 19 0 193 91
David Hale 31 17 0 200 84
Daniel Harris 14 19 8 180 76
Corey Jones 21 20 12 187 87
Daniel Motlop 19 20 2 184 75
Drew Petrie 20 19 9 197 92
Daniel Pratt 16 18 0 185 86
Dylan Smith 13 19 4 175 77
David Teague 40 20 10 186 82
Ashley Watson 1 17 0 181 68
Shannon Watt 36 21 20 192 96

The Rookies
John Baird* 38 21 0 192 95
Leigh Harding 39 20 2 180 78

Those that missed…
Winston Abraham 15 27 110 175 83 injuries...
John Blakey 12 35 346 187 83 too old...
David Bourke 25 26 85 194 80 not in the best 22...
Matthew Burton 22 31 114 210 103 too old...
Wayne Carey 18 30 244 192 97 if he wants I will take someone else out...
Rod Crowe 24 18 0 190 90 unlucky...
David King 34 30 176 183 91 too old
Adam Lange 27 22 27 186 95 not good enough...
Troy Makepeace 35 23 39 180 75 very unlucky... we have an abundance of players of his size and ability...
Michael Martyn 4 33 268 190 101 too old...
Jason McCartney 5 28 167 191 95 was the unluckiest of all...
Joe McLaren 8 24 69 187 82 not good enough
Brady Rawlings 3 20 39 181 77 I would have like to keep him is only 20... but...
Ben Robbins 30 25 52 181 78 unlucky... Sinclair was younger...
Saverio Rocca 26 28 177 195 106 ummmm... does depend if the team we merge with has a forward...
Anthony Stevens 10 30 233 178 81 too old... remember this team is going to be successful for the next 10 years had a limit of 28 on all players... except maybe... you know who...
Stuart Cooper* 41 21 0 194 82
Digby Morrell* 32 22 7 191 90
Rod Tregenza* 37 22 0 191 92

 

[Rooboy 96]

all stats are from the start of the year...

 

[moomba]

I'd swap Robbins for Sinclair for a start, and I would definately try to keep King, Rawlings and Crowe (if only so Tashi doesn't turn into axe murderer and try to create a few more spots on the list).

A lot would depend on what sort of players would come over from the other side, and I would be more inclined to leave King out than the other two. Unless another quality ruckman comes in from the other side I would be inclined to give Spider another year or two if he could be squeezed in (210 cm rookie?)

Moomba

 

[Rooboy 96]

Originally posted by moomba
I'd swap Robbins for Sinclair for a start, and I would definately try to keep King, Rawlings and Crowe (if only so Tashi doesn't turn into axe murderer and try to create a few more spots on the list).

A lot would depend on what sort of players would come over from the other side, and I would be more inclined to leave King out than the other two. Unless another quality ruckman comes in from the other side I would be inclined to give Spider another year or two if he could be squeezed in (210 cm rookie?)

Moomba

Cutting 19 players from a list was bloody hard... I decided that all players had to be able to play for at leats another 5 years... so 28 was the cut off... bye Kingy... and Burton...

Robbins - Sinclair it was merely age and nothing else that determined this...

I am a big wrap for Rawlings as you should know... maybe Teague could make way... but I was happy to keep Teague... it is so hard...

Crowe... only did it to upset Tashi... no seriously... I went with Watt and Foote... remember this is half a full merged list...

 

[Groucho]

I'd probably go for Crowe instead of Foott if only because of their relative draft positions. It would seem that Crowe was much more highly thought of than Hughie. Not got much to do at the moment Rooboy?

 

[Ausgard]

Agree that robbins would probably be in there somewhere

Also had liked the Look of Digby.

Not too sure about who we use tall down back so maybe Crowe or Cooper might stand up if Watt continues to be a little bit cr@p.

Where does Cooper play actually ? I have no idea but don't really see him on the goal kicking list so I am assuming he is a backman ?

Also Jas should be kept on the list because we all bagged him so much and he proved us all wrong.

Its also a little bit much to expect that basically all our draft picks from 2001-02 are going to be elite players.

Players like Adrian McAdam had absolutely blinding starts to there careers (and non of our rookies have done that) yet he still only lasted a few season.

Of those rookies I reckon (based onthe averages) about 5 of them will not be with the club in 3 years time (either by being traded or dumped) so a few more of the senior players will probably have a look in plus a rookie or two from the next few seasons might make an immediate impact and the odd pickup we make from other clubs.

AND doesn't include some poor sod breaking his knee three seasons in a row or something.

Lotsa variables so be interesting to see.

 

[Rooboy 96]

Originally posted by Groucho
I'd probably go for Crowe instead of Foott if only because of their relative draft positions. It would seem that Crowe was much more highly thought of than Hughie. Not got much to do at the moment Rooboy?

probably fair point yet Foote is 3 cms taller and I saw Crowe play and was not that impressed... I have not seen Foote so that may be a little unfair...

I was actually thinking of this a few days ago... it took a bit of working out...

 

[Rooboy 96]

Originally posted by Ausgard
Agree that robbins would probably be in there somewhere

Also had liked the Look of Digby.

Not too sure about who we use tall down back so maybe Crowe or Cooper might stand up if Watt continues to be a little bit cr@p.

Where does Cooper play actually ? I have no idea but don't really see him on the goal kicking list so I am assuming he is a backman ?

Also Jas should be kept on the list because we all bagged him so much and he proved us all wrong.

so who would the four to miss be???

Originally posted by Ausgard
Its also a little bit much to expect that basically all our draft picks from 2001-02 are going to be elite players.

Players like Adrian McAdam had absolutely blinding starts to there careers (and non of our rookies have done that) yet he still only lasted a few season.

Of those rookies I reckon (based onthe averages) about 5 of them will not be with the club in 3 years time (either by being traded or dumped) so a few more of the senior players will probably have a look in plus a rookie or two from the next few seasons might make an immediate impact and the odd pickup we make from other clubs.

I split the the group into two halves... 11 players under 22 and 11 players over 22...

remember you are merging so you would get some established players fromn the other partner... I should ask westyboy who his 22+2 would be...

 

[Marty Monster]

The 22 I would select

The Core
Anthony Stevens
Shannon Grant
Brent Harvey
Adam Simpson
Leigh Colbert
Mark Porter
Jason McCartney
Troy Makepeace
Glenn Archer
Sav Rocca
David King
Byron Pickett

The Kids
David Hale
Daniel Harris
Corey Jones
Daniel Motlop
Drew Petrie
Dylan Smith
David Teague
Ashley Watson
John Baird
Rod Crowe

The Rookies
Digby Morell
Leigh Harding

Players to go:
Brady Rawlings
Mick Martyn
Joe McLaren
John Blakey
Winston Abraham
Daniel Pratt
Spider Burton
Ben Robbins
Adam Lange
Shane Clayton
Stuart Cochrane
Jess Sinclair
Shannon Watt
David Bourke
Rod Tregenza
Stuart Cooper
Wayne Carey
Shannon Motlop

 

[moomba]

Originally posted by Rooboy 96
so who would the four to miss be???

LOL. It is much easier chosing players that should be in the team than those that shouldn't isn't it.

Moomba

 

[Ausgard]

Originally posted by Rooboy 96

so who would the four to miss be???

I was a complete wuss and said it was going to be one of the rookies

I'll make some preditctions and say

Shannon watt turns out to be as crap as we thend to thin he isnow

Corey Jones never really recovers from his foot injury

Dylan Smith continues to suffer injury set backs. We trade him for someone from Freo however this time the shoe is on the other foot and the guy we get from freo turns out to be cr@p and Dylan plays 250 games for Freo, 150 of them as Captain

Harding gets annoyed that Pagan dropped him and asks to be traded.

David Teague's talent never eventuates


(This is obviously all crap that I made up so don't take too much to heart)

Originally posted by Rooboy 96


I split the the group into two halves... 11 players under 22 and 11 players over 22...

remember you are merging so you would get some established players fromn the other partner... I should ask westyboy who his 22+2 would be...

Sorry - I was ignoring the fact about this being a merged team. I really don't think this could eventuate for the next 5 years. Relocate is more a likely option to keep the 16 teams going, probably either to Tasmania or ACT. However, these two options will still probably be worse financially than having the team stay in Melbourne as the supporter base (or jreally just the population) is not really good enough

If we were to merge, even with a crap team, I think we still wouldn't really have a super team because of salary cap restrictions. Would be nice to think about a roo team even merged with the Saints.

Everett, Kochsitzcke, Reiwaldt (spelling optional obviously). Even old timers like Harvey would be auto starters - just so long as the coach was pagan and not CornFlakes.

And we were called the Kangaroos

And we were blue and White.

And ....

 

[Rooboy 96]

It is a hypothetical... and I really would prefer it not turning into a discussion about the positives and negatives of merger relocation...

St Kilda... urr yuk my brother-in-law barracks for them... another team please...

 

[Carlos]

Interesting thread RB96.

I'd be hanging onto Crowe before Foott. Seems more developed and a better chance of being a senior player, and an important, versatile type, which we will need when Arch retires.

I'd also be keeping McCartney before Colbert. He has the runs on the board and doesnt seem to have a heap of ware on the body so could play for some time yet. Colbert's body seems to be knackered almost beyond repair and i cant imagine him getting a heap better.

I'd also be trying to fit Morrell and Robbins in. Morrell seems to have a heap of potential and with a bit of experience could be a massive key. Robbins is a very competent player with hardness and class. Possible exclusions would be Clayton, who certainly has gotten the best out of himself but still has shortcomings, and Cochrane, who would need to show a bit more creativity and drive to compliment his stopping ability before being a certainty for a spot.

 

[roobear]

Fantastic idea Rooboy. I'll be lazy and just make some small changes based on your list...

Originally posted by Rooboy 96


The Core
Player No. Age Games Ht Wt
Glenn Archer 11 28 199 182 93
Shane Clayton 23 23 87 186 84
Stuart Cochrane 45 23 33 189 87
Leigh Colbert 2 26 134 192 92
Shannon Grant 6 24 152 178 83
Brent Harvey 29 23 109 168 73
Shannon Motlop 44 23 42 182 85
Byron Pickett 28 24 98 178 82
Mark Porter 17 25 55 199 104
Adam Simpson 7 26 136 185 86
Jess Sinclair 9 23 68 180 79

Out: Clayton, Colbert, Sinclair (Colby a very tough one)
In: Rawlings (still think he's got the makings of a very good player), Makepeace (continue to be rapt after initial doubts), Stevo (leadership, discipline, and still an awesome player)

Originally posted by Rooboy 96

The Kids
Hugh Foott 33 19 0 193 91
David Hale 31 17 0 200 84
Daniel Harris 14 19 8 180 76
Corey Jones 21 20 12 187 87
Daniel Motlop 19 20 2 184 75
Drew Petrie 20 19 9 197 92
Daniel Pratt 16 18 0 185 86
Dylan Smith 13 19 4 175 77
David Teague 40 20 10 186 82
Ashley Watson 1 17 0 181 68
Shannon Watt 36 21 20 192 96

A little hard to know, but I like what I've heard of Crowe... whether he replaces Foott or Pratt, I'm not sure. This is the sort of decision that could bite you on the arse, as it's too early to be sure.

Originally posted by Rooboy 96

The Rookies
John Baird* 38 21 0 192 95
Leigh Harding 39 20 2 180 78

Hang on, does that mean Diggers misses out? If so, take Foott and Pratt out of the kids list, replaced with Crowe and Baird, then chuck Digby into the rookies.

Even as a hypothetical it's a nightmare of a process!

By the way, it was good to meet you on the weekend...

 

[Rooboy 96]

Originally posted by Marty Monster
The 22 I would select

The Core
Anthony Stevens
David King

I believe these blokes are part of the old guard and would have limited effect over the long term of a merged entity...

of the players that you left out all were in my thinking at some stage except Motlop Snr... so fair enough...

 

[windsock]

What the fu(k is this thread? I can't believe you guys are even discussing this.

 

[roobear]

Originally posted by windsock
What the fu(k is this thread? I can't believe you guys are even discussing this.

I think it's Rooboy's way of discussing who the fans see as our most important players of the future. Bloody great discussion I reckon. Feel free to join in....

 

[tashibatts]

Originally posted by moomba
I'd swap Crowe (if only so Tashi doesn't turn into axe murderer and try to create a few more spots on the list).

Moomba

*Coughs*

Well actually I was thinking about becoming an assasin.. lol.. I have my list worked out.. Watt,Colbert,Clayton and Cochrane (How predictable of me)

lol, nah really.. I wouldnt become a murderer of ne type.. but I would have Crowe in..

Go Roos

 

[tashibatts]

Btw, I dont particularily like this thread, as the thought freaks me out a bit.. but my name was mentioned.. and I figured I better put my .5 cents in..

Go Roos

 

[stevo10]

A very interesting thread indeed, it really is a thread on our depth and recruiting in terms of the talent stocks for the future. But you have to take into account who we were to HYPOTHETICALLY (FOR FUNS SAKE WINDSOCK) merge with. Take for example Brisbanes list. If we were to take their list and ours at this present moment, I would think that we would have approximarely 12 that would be added to their list. Watson, Grant, Archer, Smith, Harris, Motlop Jr., Petrie, Crowe, Pickett, Harvey, Hale. AND Grant, Smith and Crowe would be lucky.

 

[Darky]

If it was a merged team, I'd pick the top 12 players which, combined with the other team's top 12, should create a squad strong enough to win flags IMMEDIATELY.

The remaining spots should be used to build depth and build the list in future years.

Rather than split themn specifically into two groups of a young 11 and an old 11, here's the group of 22 :

Seniors - McCartney, Grant, Simpson, Stevens, Archer, Smith, Harris, Morrell, Porter, D.Motlop, Petrie, Jones, Crowe, Rocca, Pickett, Harvey, Robbins, Hale, King, Teague, Harding, S.Motlop

Rookies - Cooper, Baird

Gone :
Colbert - too many injuries. List of 44-48 players might save him though.
Rawlings - not good enough
Martyn - too old
McLaren - fringe player for a single team, not good enough for a "supersquad"
Watson - generally, prefer to keep tall rookies over smalls. Theoretically replaceable.
Sinclair - ditto
Blakey - too old
Abraham - injuries
Pratt - hasn't shown enough yet. Tough choice.
Carey - retired, hasn't he?
Burton - too old
Clayton - fringe, not good enough
Bourke - as if we need a reason
Lange - fringe, not good enough
Foott - have enough key position players, I suppose it's between him and the more highly regarded Crowe
Makepeace - fringe, not good enough. In a combined squad, he'd be near the bottom of the talent ppol.
Watt - not good enough

 

[Rooboy 96]

Re: Re: Hypothetical One...

Originally posted by roobear
Out: Clayton, Colbert, Sinclair (Colby a very tough one)
In: Rawlings (still think he's got the makings of a very good player)

Rawlings is only 20... so he should be in the kids group not the core....

 

[Rooboy 96]

Originally posted by windsock
What the fu(k is this thread? I can't believe you guys are even discussing this.

I just can't believe we can't talk about this in a hypothetical situation... as I have tried to state quite clearly this is not to be taken as an endorsement of a merger... just a hypothetical look at what best 22+2 we could take into a merger...

from memory Brisbane was allowed 44 plus a salary cap relief to allow the merger to work... so that was what I was working on...

 

[Rooboy 96]

Originally posted by Darky
If it was a merged team, I'd pick the top 12 players which, combined with the other team's top 12, should create a squad strong enough to win flags IMMEDIATELY.

The remaining spots should be used to build depth and build the list in future years.

Rather than split themn specifically into two groups of a young 11 and an old 11, here's the group of 22 :

Seniors - McCartney, Grant, Simpson, Stevens, Archer, Smith, Harris, Morrell, Porter, D.Motlop, Petrie, Jones, Crowe, Rocca, Pickett, Harvey, Robbins, Hale, King, Teague, Harding, S.Motlop

Rookies - Cooper, Baird

I would find it a waste of 2 spots to have Stevens and King in a new entity when in all fairness nether could expect to last longer the three seasons at their current form...

Cooper is 21 and roughly the same body shape as bourke... why would you have him as a rookie??? ahead of so many already on our list... even Rawlings is younger and has proven more...

 

[Westy_Boy]

Originally posted by Rooboy 96

I should ask westyboy who his 22+2 would be...

As requested

Core:-

Grant (29)
West (27)
Darcy (26)
Johnson (25)
Brown (24)
Smith (28)
Robbins (23)
Bandy (25)

Our ‘older’ list is pretty poor after this so although blokes like Eagleton, Alvey, Hunter and Harrison could be good back up, I'll leave them out.

Youngsters:-

Giansiracusa (21)
Penny (21)
Murphy (20)
Gilbee (20)
Birss (20)
Bowden (20)
McMahon (18)
Hahn (21)
Power (17)

I don't think the pigs at AFL house would let us have an extended list, so I'm assuming 17 players each with 4 selections at the draft.

I've inlcuded players that may be perceived as 'past it' because the side would still need experienced campaigners, especially in the early years when the team is gelling together... and the quality talent amongst the youngsters will prove sufficient replacements later on.


Hypothetical team:-

Murphy ....…..Penny ...…..…Archer

Smith ....……..McCartney ....King

Brown ....…….West ........….Grant

Johnson ....….Grant ........….Harvey

Pickett ....…..Rocca ....……..Giansiracusa

Darcy ......…..Stevens........Simpson

I/C:- Robbins & Robbins (rotational midfielders), Porter (second ruck), Bandy (tall utility)

11/11 split. Salary cap might be a problem though... I'm estimating approx. $10m in wages right there.