Hypothetically speaking... Sbagman's AFL.

[sbagman]

OK so here's a silly idea that came to me that isn't feasible but sounds great on paper.

The Lions and Swans return home to become Fitzroy and South Melbourne again. New teams are established in Sydney and Brisbane to replace them. Southport, Canberra, Tasmania, another team from WA, Norwood and West Sydney are admitted to an AFL second division. Two teams are demoted from AFL to second division. Therefore, Sbagman's AFL consists of:

Div 1
Essendon
Collingwood
Carlton
West Coast
Adelaide
Melbourne
Richmond
Port Adelaide
Brisbane
Sydney
Geelong
Hawthorn
Western Bulldogs
North Melbourne

Div 2
Southport
St Kilda
West Sydney
Canberra
South Melbourne
Fitzroy
Fremantle
Tasmania
Norwood
3rd WA team

Promotion/relegation of two teams within each division.

Bottom Div 2 team replaced by top regional side in Australia (determined from VFL, SANFL etc etc)

Advantages:
Keeps Div 1 fresh (always someone new)
Gives bottom clubs something to play for (avoid relegation)
Every city over 250,000 in Australia will have a chance of playing in AFL
Every state and territory (except NT) has a chance of entering AFL
Retention of history of Swans, Lions plus Norwood and other WA team
Establishment of second sides in Qld and NSW.
Gives everyone in Australia chance of competeing at highest level.

Disadvantages
Lack of interest in second div games
Cost of second div games
(These aspects are less severe due to the smaller Div 2)
Dilution of player pool
Further weakening of SANFL/WAFL

In Sbagman's AFL, Port can be Port Adelaide Magpies and can wear black and white. (Sorry Collingwood supporters).

Any thoughts?

 

[sbagman]

Also.... each team plays each other twice.

The winner of each comp is the team with the most wins (ie soccer type league season)

Introduction of Australian Cup, where every team in Australia can compete in a knockout.

Probably alot of lopsided scores, but imagine the excitement in a small town as the locals do battle with Essendon? As the bricklayer from Colac tells his kids about the day he lined up on Matty Lloyd? Would do great things for country footy... the "grass roots"

 

[Dan26]

In theory it's good. But in practice it would be impossible to implement. It sort of makes you wish that things staretd like this 100 years ago, so they were "always this way"

 

[GoEagles]

Yep it does sound great on paper, but unfortunately it is a dream.
*Lets do the timewarp again*

 

[sbagman]

The dilution of player pool and cost would be the main obstacles.

Can't see why it would make anyone unhappy.

No more mergers, relocations, plus everyone has a chance of being in the big league.

Fitzroy and South fans get their souls back too.

Even the country get a chance to rub shoulders with the big boys.

Everyone's happy!

 

[sbagman]

OK so why is it impossible? OK, tone it down a bit... Fitzroy and South stay where they are. Keep finals/grand finals. The second div doesn't really affect the first. What AFL fan would care what happens to the VFL? None. So why would they care about the introduction of a second division?

 

[sbagman]

Frankly I'd rather see my team demoted to the second division than relocated or merged. At least you'd still have a team to watch.

 

[Stealth bomber]

While making retroactive changes, change Western Bulldogs to Footscray again.

Would the AFL consider a conference/division type setup like most American sports leagues?

Hypothetically, have a Victorian and non-Victorian division set up to group all the local teams nearby.

Victorian Division:
-------------------
Melbourne
North Melbourne
Essendon
Carlton
Footscray
St. Kilda
Hawthorn
Richmond
Collingwood
Geelong

Interstate Division:
--------------------
West Coast
Fremantle
Port Adelaide
Adelaide
Sydney
New South Wales (2nd)
Brisbane
Queensland (2nd)
Canberra (?)
Tasmania (?)

Season could be 28 rounds, with each division opponent playing each other twice (18 games) and inter-division games played once (10 games).

Obvious cons are the glaring differences in required travel and the lengthened season, plus the parity problems that would ensue if one particular division had the majority of strong clubs during a season.

Probably isn't worth the trouble.

 

[sbagman]

Don't like the seperation of the Vic and Interstate teams.

I think you need promotion/relegation to keep it fresh.

 

[Same Old's]

Originally posted by Stealth bomber:

While making retroactive changes, change Western Bulldogs to Footscray again.

Would the AFL consider a conference/division type setup like most American sports leagues?

Hypothetically, have a Victorian and non-Victorian division set up to group all the local teams nearby.

Victorian Division:
-------------------
Melbourne
North Melbourne
Essendon
Carlton
Footscray
St. Kilda
Hawthorn
Richmond
Collingwood
Geelong

Interstate Division:
--------------------
West Coast
Fremantle
Port Adelaide
Adelaide
Sydney
New South Wales (2nd)
Brisbane
Queensland (2nd)
Canberra (?)
Tasmania (?)

Season could be 28 rounds, with each division opponent playing each other twice (18 games) and inter-division games played once (10 games).

Obvious cons are the glaring differences in required travel and the lengthened season, plus the parity problems that would ensue if one particular division had the majority of strong clubs during a season.

Probably isn't worth the trouble.

If we were to take up a conference system, I would have a mixture Victorian clubs and non-Victorian clubs in each conference.

 

[sbagman]

OK, maybe a bit better, but my problem is still the lack of freshness in the comp... you still have the same teams going round and round. I'm advocating for relegation promotion, not just between the first and second divisions, but between state leagues and the second division. This would open up hugely the possibilities of how many teams may enter the AFL. And I think alot of people would stick by their SANFL ar WAFL club if there was some possibility that, via promotion, they could aspire to the AFL rather than always be stuck in a second rate comp.

 

[WCE2000]

Sbagman, not bad idea, but not feasable (??).

Maybe you can go to some foreign country and set up their Football League in that way, but that to is probably unfeasable.

 

[sbagman]

why?

tasmanian and canberran teams have been talked out for ages, as have southport and west sydney. and didn't the vfa have a second division?

someone give me a reason why it would not work.

why does it work in every other country on earth?

 

[WCE2000]

Theyve had the current format for 105 years now. I dont think theyre going to change it now. It probably could be done, but it wont be.

And you said it youself, there is a big chance there would be a lack of itnerest in division 1, and the cost of having the division 1 would far outweigh the profits from these games.

 

[WCE2000]

Originally posted by sbagman:

The bricklayer from Colac tells his kids about the day he lined up on Matty Lloyd? Would do great things for country footy... the "grass roots"

I can just imagine the converstation now:

Father: you know son, i once lined up on the great Matt Lloyd in an Australia Cup Match back in 2001.

Son: Really, Dad. How many goals did he kick.

Father: I'm not sure, i think it was 27, i lost count after the 1st quarter.

It sounds good on paper, but the clubs wouldn't put any effort into at all. It'd just be another State-of-Origin.

Can you imagine if Essendon play the East Sydney Bulldogs from Sydney. We would be lucky to keep Essendon under 500 points.

The reason why the FA cup works in soccer is because there is a lot of luck in scoring a goal in soccer. All you need is a bit of luck and some division 3 side can lead Man Utd 2-0, and its almost game over. The div. 3 only needs 2 flashes of brilliance and they win.
In Australian Rules, it doesn't work like that. You need to work right through the hole game to win it. Sides from the little leagues would get absolutely squashed

[This message has been edited by WCE2000 (edited 25 January 2001).]

 

[sbagman]

Fair point WCE. I think that's why soccer for me will always have an aspect of romance that AFL will not.

Nice to imagine it though.
The thought was there!

 

[Mobbs]

It might take 20 years to see it happen, but if once, just once, a backblocks club got up and knocked off a lower level AFL (or AFL Div 2?) club, it'd be worth it for that bumpkin side for a century.

------------------
Hallowed be thy Roy

 

[Pessimistic]

Re the conference system where one is VIC clubs and the other non-VIC

The VIC clubs conference would have huge crowds at affordable prices - would become the strength.

The non-VIC one would have small crowds (except WCE and Adelaide) with huge prices and would wither away due to no interest from other fans - hence no interest from sponsors

The vic clubs need the others and vice versa but the non vic need the vic clubs a LOT more.

The rub is they think they can give a couple of smaller VIC clubs the flick - well they can't.

 

[ptw]

I like it sbagman....


th only real problem I can see is the draft and the transfer of players. Whilst we have a draft where all of the players go to the present AFL sides then clubs like Norwood could not possibly compete. Similarly you could not allow Norwood to enter the draft as you would then get some champ stuck in the magoos not being able to play in the big league.

Bring back zones I say....and allow Norwood to sell players from its zone to the other clubs.

Overall though I think it would be better than the current situation.

ptw

[This message has been edited by ptw (edited 25 January 2001).]

[This message has been edited by ptw (edited 25 January 2001).]

 

[Port Adelaide 1870]

Originally posted by sbagman:

OK so here's a silly idea that came to me that isn't feasible but sounds great on paper.

The Lions and Swans return home to become Fitzroy and South Melbourne again. New teams are established in Sydney and Brisbane to replace them. Southport, Canberra, Tasmania, another team from WA, Norwood and West Sydney are admitted to an AFL second division. Two teams are demoted from AFL to second division. Therefore, Sbagman's AFL consists of:

Div 1
Essendon
Collingwood
Carlton
West Coast
Adelaide
Melbourne
Richmond
Port Adelaide
Brisbane
Sydney
Geelong
Hawthorn
Western Bulldogs
North Melbourne

Div 2
Southport
St Kilda
West Sydney
Canberra
South Melbourne
Fitzroy
Fremantle
Tasmania
Norwood
3rd WA team

Promotion/relegation of two teams within each division.

Bottom Div 2 team replaced by top regional side in Australia (determined from VFL, SANFL etc etc)

Advantages:
Keeps Div 1 fresh (always someone new)
Gives bottom clubs something to play for (avoid relegation)
Every city over 250,000 in Australia will have a chance of playing in AFL
Every state and territory (except NT) has a chance of entering AFL
Retention of history of Swans, Lions plus Norwood and other WA team
Establishment of second sides in Qld and NSW.
Gives everyone in Australia chance of competeing at highest level.

Disadvantages
Lack of interest in second div games
Cost of second div games
(These aspects are less severe due to the smaller Div 2)
Dilution of player pool
Further weakening of SANFL/WAFL

In Sbagman's AFL, Port can be Port Adelaide Magpies and can wear black and white. (Sorry Collingwood supporters).

Any thoughts?

Brilliant and Bravo......!!!!!!

sensational and in the best interests of Australian Rules Football..

You sound like the Rooch !!

Michaelangelo Rucci to be exact...Huh?

PA1870

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Australia is a hell of a lot bigger than England for example. The English soccer system works because the teams aren't too far away from each other. How is a struggling second division team going to be able to afford to fly around the country?

It would be refreshing though. I wish this country did have enough money to support it.

 

[sbagman]

Originally posted by The Old Dark Navy's:
Australia is a hell of a lot bigger than England for example. The English soccer system works because the teams aren't too far away from each other. How is a struggling second division team going to be able to afford to fly around the country?

It would be refreshing though. I wish this country did have enough money to support it.

That's why the 2nd div should be quite small... maybe even only 8 teams... only four away days. Perhaps these teams could compete while still in their state comps...

It would be hard financially for them (2nd div teams), but if they were promoted to div 1, the financial rewards would be huge (TV dollars coming into the market now).

 

[dons_r_tops]

sbagman, I don't think you understand tasmanian football very well, goto http://www.bomberblitz.com and read my article on tasmania and the VFL

 

[sbagman]

Originally posted by dons_r_tops:
sbagman, I don't think you understand tasmanian football very well, goto http://www.bomberblitz.com and read my article on tasmania and the VFL

I kinda suspected that. I think that its beside the point though. What I was basically proposing was a structure which would enable more parts of Australia, and more clubs, the opportunity to compete at the highest level, and provide the league with some freshness, as well as something for the bottom clubs to fight against (ie. relegation) and inject more interest into SANFL, WAFL and other leagues. The teams I put forward were almost irrelevant.

 

[dees01]

That idea is absoloute and utter rubbish. There is just no way it can be done.