I like GWS but hate Gold Coast. Anyone feel the same?

[Wonaeamirri33]

Anyone who denies that GWS as brought a certain energy to the comp that wasnt there last year is very short-sighted imho.

Anyone who thinks that the AFL's destruction of Fitzroy, and in the process, abandonment of any real hope of a strong long-term base in Canberra, didn't take away a certain energy from the comp that would have existed otherwise, is very short-sighted imho.

Anyone who thinks that the AFL's choice of GW$ and G€ over Tasmania will bring in more support for the comp than would be the case otherwise, is very short-sighted imho.

Yes, society is littered with people who lack foresight.

 

[bluemarq]

Let's face it - expand or die. Do we want to become like the NRL?

As a fellow 'soulless franchise' supporter I welcome GWS and GC into the competition quote]

Much as supporters opf Victorian teams might hate them, West Coast are anything but a "souless franchise".

WA has a proud Aussie Rules history stretching well back well over a century.

West Australians have a deep and abiding love for the game.

WA has produced hundreds of AFL/VFL players and dozens of champions.

West Coast home games are invariably sell outs, filled with tens of thousands of screaming, passionate fans

Contrast with GWS:

1. An AFL culture that is about as developed as Iceland's
2. No contribution to the game of any note.
3. Pitifully attended home games, with a couple of thousand people who got free tickets and had nothing to do that afternoon .

 

[Nostradumbass]

Couldn't give a stuff about either of them

 

[Haduken]

Not particularly, no.

And of course, it wasn't just Fitzroy supporters the AFL worked so hard to abandon during those years, it was any real hope of establishing a genuine long-term base in Canberra as well.

If we'd not been prevented by the AFL from completing the deal we had signed, sealed and delivered in Canberra back in '95, the AFL would now have a strong and enduring support base in the ACT, with good regular crowds, comparable to or better than anything Hawthorn have achieved in Tasmania.

Moreover, if we were back in the comp and had things as heavily slanted in our favour as can be said for the GW$ and Gold €oa$t franchises right now, our attendances, and membership, would be a Christ of a lot higher than anything GW$ and G€ are getting, that's for sure.

As a resident of Canberra I'm more than aware of the nation capital's love/hate relationship with the AFL. You are kidding yourselves however if you think the Fitzroy to Canberra plan was financially tenable in the longer term.

There's a reason the Roos tried and failed to launch here as well. We don't have the population for it yet. With GWS semi-regular appearances here however this is giving the Territory more exposure to the game the interest continues to grow. (Doesn't hurt that the Raiders have been playing garbage football for nigh on two decades either).

Canberra will eventually land a team, but in the mean time I'll support GWS as my 'local' when they play here and continue loving my bombers.

 

[Wonaeamirri33]

Given that we were going to play 7 games there each year, as part of a deal which would have seen Fitzroy gain $1 million/year in revenue, hence secured the future of the club, I do indeed think it was financially tenable.

Fitzroy's application had the support of the 'AFL for Canberra' organisation, the Canberra Raiders, the Ainslie Football Club and the ACT chief minister, who offered to upgrade Bruce Stadium. However, the AFL point-blank refused to entertain the idea.

An AFL commissioner later admitted that the reason why the AFL knocked it back was because they wanted to keep the pressure on Fitzroy to "merge".

 

[mytym]

sounds the same as West Coast to me and they seem to have managed

Yep. West Coast used to be the worst named team until GWS came about. West Coast should be called Perth and GWS should be West Sydney or the name of some large suburb in Sydney's west.

As far as how I feel about the two new teams, I really don't consider them to be legitimate at the moment. It even feels a bit strange referring to GWS's win on the weekend as it's 1st because it wasn't against a "regular" side. That being said, there is still a novelty associated with watching them and I'm interested in seeing them develop.

They are a bit like Pinocchio, not real at the moment, but will probably become real eventually.

 

[Haduken]

Given that we were going to play 7 games there each year, as part of a deal which would have seen Fitzroy gain $1 million/year in revenue, hence secured the future of the club, I do indeed think it was financially tenable.

Fitzroy's application had the support of the 'AFL for Canberra' organisation, the Canberra Raiders, the Ainslie Football Club and the ACT chief minister, who offered to upgrade Bruce Stadium. However, the AFL point-blank refused to entertain the idea.

An AFL commissioner later admitted that the reason why the AFL knocked it back was because they wanted to keep the pressure on Fitzroy to "merge".

You'll get no argument from me that the politics behind the scenes killed the Roys and were despicable, however Canberra's readiness to accept the team would have disappeared the next year when Howard 'gutted' Canberra of 10,000 public servant jobs and set the local economy back 10 years. They would have lurched into a new disaster and that may have ended them anyway.

Regardless I fail to understand what any of that has to do with GWS. AFL house itself has come out and said Fitzroy was their greatest mistake, but that ship has now sailed. An expansion club appearing 17 years later has nothing to do with it. You accuse them of being a soulless expansion club but seriously, where would a new club come from? It's not like Manuka or Ainslie could seriously field a team, and even the biggest powerhouse clubs like your Claremont's, Norwood's and Port Melbourne's would have difficulty making the move up. Expanion franchises are the only realistic way the competetion can now grow.

 

[Wonaeamirri33]

You accuse them of being a soulless expansion club but seriously, where would a new club come from?

Tasmania.

And speaking hypothetically, given the amount of money being spent by the AFL on these pipedreams, if it were spent otherwise, a club like Norwood, Claremont or Port Melbourne - even Ainslie or Manuka - would be able to establish themselves well enough before long, I'm confident of that.

Probably wouldn't require anywhere near the money being spent on the two franchises - just as it wouldn't require near as much money to reinstate the Roys, of course.

 

[Forward Press]

I don't understand the proponents for a permanent, exclusive Canberra or Tasmania team. Gold Coast has more people than both, and of course half of Sydney is far bigger than them too (even excluding regional NSW). And they are both high-growth areas - Gold Coast alone is expected to add at least 13,000 new residents a year.

The foresight move is to adjust Victorian teams if support fades and send them to Gold Coast and western Sydney. Canberra and Tasmania are a way off given population trends and it wouldn't surprise me if a third WA, Queensland and NSW team gets in first.

 

[Forward Press]

Yep. West Coast used to be the worst named team until GWS came about. West Coast should be called Perth and GWS should be West Sydney or the name of some large suburb in Sydney's west.

As far as how I feel about the two new teams, I really don't consider them to be legitimate at the moment. It even feels a bit strange referring to GWS's win on the weekend as it's 1st because it wasn't against a "regular" side. That being said, there is still a novelty associated with watching them and I'm interested in seeing them develop.

They are a bit like Pinocchio, not real at the moment, but will probably become real eventually.

I still cringe at 'West Coast' but meh, I don't think it will change any time soon. Campbelltown maybe for GWS? Blacktown? Parramatta? Wests Tigers seems OK though (is that the NRL team out there?)

I'm more concerned about off-field performance tbh. Gold Coast seem profitable so far...

 

[bluemarq]

. Expanion franchises are the only realistic way the competetion can now grow.

And why do we have to keep adding new teams every couple of years? (other than TV Rights deals and securing Vlad's legacy I mean)

Australia (pop 22 million) is now serviced by 18 AFL teams.

the USA (pop 310 million) is serviced by 30 NFL teams - and they don't have to compete with Rugby.

Do you think this mad rush to throw new teams in the mix all the time and therefore keep spreading the talent thinner and thinner, and making the barrier to qualifying to play professionally lower and lower might just lead to a deterioration in the standard of the game we all love?

Melbourne Storm have won premierships. They have top flight management and coaching.

For all that, virtually no one in Melbourne gives a **** about them.

Should he care to listen, there's a message there for Vlad.

 

[Wonaeamirri33]

Gold Coast has more people than both

But far less of an actual support base, obviously. Ditto West Sydney.

 

[Forward Press]

But far less of an actual support base, obviously. Ditto West Sydney.

Who says you cannot build up a supporter base?

The crowd numbers in the first year is not what is motivating the expansion - it's making inroads into the competition and winning converts to junior footy in those states. It's sensible to target high-growth and high-population areas given the greater income potential compared to the established bases.

 

[Wonaeamirri33]

Who says you cannot build up a supporter base?

By that logic, we should be setting up a club in Auckland or Wellington

Aside from the fact that West Sydney and the Gold Coast are territories with plenty of strong clubs from other sports already jockeying for support there. These were pretty competitive markets even before the AFL decided to pursue these pipedreams.

Tasmania is a far easier market. As is Canberra.

As is the original support base for Fitzroy - perhaps partially dormant, but still certainly out there. Even in 1996, it was estimated that 150,000 people identified as Fitzroy supporters.

 

[Forward Press]

By that logic, we should be setting up a club in Auckland or Wellington

Aside from the fact that West Sydney and the Gold Coast are territories with a good deal of competition going on within them already.

Well, why not?

If the AFL conducts the feasibility studies and all that groundwork and thinks it can make a profit and an impact in New Zealand, then by all means.

Soccer has made a bit of an impact in parts of Australia since the A-League restructure, drawing far bigger crowds than the NSL heyday. Who says that a vastly more popular and more well-funded code cannot do that too in rugby heartland?

People also keep forgetting the AFL is not a charity and is a corporation in all but name only.

 

[Scotland]

Pfft, Auckland.

Bali is just as close and there are 3 times as many people there - plus lots of expat Aussies and tourists.

Hell, if you go a bit further north you could set up a team in Shanghai.

 

[greennick]

Yep. West Coast used to be the worst named team until GWS came about. West Coast should be called Perth and GWS should be West Sydney or the name of some large suburb in Sydney's west.

As far as how I feel about the two new teams, I really don't consider them to be legitimate at the moment. It even feels a bit strange referring to GWS's win on the weekend as it's 1st because it wasn't against a "regular" side. That being said, there is still a novelty associated with watching them and I'm interested in seeing them develop.

They are a bit like Pinocchio, not real at the moment, but will probably become real eventually.

I like our name.

 

[Wonaeamirri33]

Pfft, Auckland.

Bali is just as close and there are 3 times as many people there - plus lots of expat Aussies and tourists.

Hell, if you go a bit further north you could set up a team in Shanghai.

LULZ- you really need to check out this thread I reckon:

Expansion After 2012

 

[greennick]

And why do we have to keep adding new teams every couple of years? (other than TV Rights deals and securing Vlad's legacy I mean)

Australia (pop 22 million) is now serviced by 18 AFL teams.

the USA (pop 310 million) is serviced by 30 NFL teams - and they don't have to compete with Rugby.

Do you think this mad rush to throw new teams in the mix all the time and therefore keep spreading the talent thinner and thinner, and making the barrier to qualifying to play professionally lower and lower might just lead to a deterioration in the standard of the game we all love?

Melbourne Storm have won premierships. They have top flight management and coaching.

For all that, virtually no one in Melbourne gives a **** about them.

Should he care to listen, there's a message there for Vlad.

32 teams actually.

Anyway, it is all about being national and the advertising $$. It is like how the NHL has teams in the Southern states that don't care enough about hockey, when they could just more teams in Canada that would guarantee to sell out every week.

 

[Wonaeamirri33]

Do you think this mad rush to throw new teams in the mix all the time and therefore keep spreading the talent thinner and thinner, and making the barrier to qualifying to play professionally lower and lower might just lead to a deterioration in the standard of the game we all love?

Another exceptionally fine point.

If we're not careful, we'll end up emulating the BASEketball scenario, if we're not doing this already

[YOUTUBE]oAzqUGsoH94[/YOUTUBE]

 

[ausbacker]

And why do we have to keep adding new teams every couple of years? (other than TV Rights deals and securing Vlad's legacy I mean)

Australia (pop 22 million) is now serviced by 18 AFL teams.

the USA (pop 310 million) is serviced by 30 NFL teams - and they don't have to compete with Rugby.

Do you think this mad rush to throw new teams in the mix all the time and therefore keep spreading the talent thinner and thinner, and making the barrier to qualifying to play professionally lower and lower might just lead to a deterioration in the standard of the game we all love?

Melbourne Storm have won premierships. They have top flight management and coaching.

For all that, virtually no one in Melbourne gives a **** about them.

Should he care to listen, there's a message there for Vlad.

As of March, the Storm sits in the middle of the NRL membership table. The Storm also averaged over 14,000 per game in their home venue. That sits them toward the lower-middle of the NFL for average match attendances. Not great but not poor.

Perhaps you care to revise your point about entering expansion markets given the Storm appears to be a strong reference point for the success of expansion teams in non-traditional areas.

 

[Cicatriz]

I couldn't agree with the title any more.
Gold Coast feel like a horrible franchise with no soul. Bleach, fake tans and mission statements.
GWS feel like young colt- awkward, exiting, real. Working class, tough and gritty.

 

[Dynamics]

I'm sure the people in Canberra, Goulburn and surrounding areas would love to feel you in on your ignorance.

I was born in Canberra, grew up here and have lived here for all but about 8 years of my life. My wife was born here and so was my son. Fair to say I love the place.

And I have NO idea what you're talking about.

 

[Mountain Giant]

Funny how so many AFL fans actually don't like or have faith in the sport. Aussie Rules is growing in leaps and bounds in West Sydney. My son has the choice of about 4 clubs to join that are very close to us. There are AFL posts all over the place. Probably see them more than league posts (but certainly not more than soccer goals). AFL is growing, and considering how good west Sydney is at producing sporting talent - in 50 years time will probably be the biggest producer of AFL talent.

If you are so small minded to think Gws should be just another bloody suburb that is a meaningless distinction in AFL anyway (What IS the difference between North Melbourne, Carlton, Collingwood and Fitzroy nowadays?), Or that the game should have grown to tassy or canberra only, then just stick with VFL. AFL has obviously left you behind.

Frankly, unless you follow Melbourne, Richmond (I guess), Geelong or any of the interstate teams you can't talk about money and being plastic since your teams have already been sold off to the shareholders of Etihad stadium and/or the MCC.

Still got a soft spot for GC. Though they played some some pretty insipid tactics during parts of the game. Will head up for the away game and see what I think for myself.

 

[bluemarq]

Frankly, unless you follow Melbourne, Richmond (I guess), Geelong or any of the interstate teams you can't talk about money and being plastic since your teams have already been sold off to the shareholders of Etihad stadium and/or the MCC.
.

Utter garbage. Less than 7000 people bothered to watch gw$ play the eagles in Blacktown. There was no real demand for your Club, and no genuine interest in it.