Remove this Banner Ad

I see improvement in Ned Guy

🥰 Love BigFooty? Join now for free.

jathanas said:
Yes he was and it doesn't reflect well on him... at all.

Doubt it was his decision solely to bring Beams over and heavily backload Treloar's deal so we could keep the squad together.

Can Ned Guy rise to the task and do a better job in the future? I believe that is possible but I'm not wedded to him staying on. I want the best available person for the job in every role at the club.
Click to expand...

you think he had any input at all into getting beams?
 
Is Ned leaving, that could bring improvement.

I think he was dragged under the bus but I’m really not sure he’s our long term guy (pardon the pun)
 
1. I think he did EXACTLY what was asked when he came in. Keep the 2018 list together where a significant amount of players were coming out of contract and some with big $$$ offers - Moore, DeGoey, Langdon, Phillips, Cox to name a few. All other than Moore coming off huge seasons. No one would have thought Langdon would barely play again, Cox would not progress etc.

2. Brought Beams in - cant imagine it was his decision. He facilitated it.

3. Trade period 2020 - This was clearly a club approved strategy. Im talking board through to list management and coaching. We clearly missed FA who wanted to come to us and lost our last final by 70. Lost the pre-lim and GF before that. THIS list for a number of reasons, injuries included was not gonna get it done. I think this trade period was not done well and the club should be open to criticism. IMO the draft achieved exactly what we wanted to achieve had we got better value during trade so its a pass for me. 5 of the best 31 players in the country and a 6th 19yr old ready made pressure forward.
 
I think ned needs to take a significant responsibility for the renegotiation of treloars contract in early 2019. The fact that we tried to move him on 6 months later is puzzling to me. How is that trying to keep the side together?
and he's not new in the job...so his trade period performance wasnt very impressive
 

Log in to remove this Banner Ad

Markfs said:
you think he had any input at all into getting beams?
Click to expand...

Yes, no doubt but he shouldn't take all the heat for that one.

Markfs said:
I think ned needs to take a significant responsibility for the renegotiation of treloars contract in early 2019. The fact that we tried to move him on 6 months later is puzzling to me. How is that trying to keep the side together?
and he's not new in the job...so his trade period performance wasnt very impressive
Click to expand...

The way the club managed the Treloar contract is the bast*rd WTF moment from hell. That will remain a big stain on Ned Guy's CV but again was the 180 we did on treloar his decision?
 
Kappa said:
I don't care how "brave" he looks in front of members, he'll always be a scared rabbit to other clubs list managers who will push him around again next off season.

Once you get a reputation as someone who blinks first, the sharks start circling.

As much as people hate Dodora, you need a reputation as a tough uncompromising bastard to get good returns on your trades, something we are VERY bad at.
Click to expand...
Really, Dodoro?

Brought in:
Shiel - two first rounders
Stringer - two second rounders
D Smith - Pick 11 and shuffling of picks

Lost:
Danniher - Pick 7 after being offered two first rounders from Sydney
Saad - Pick 8 the best deal by far


Not to mention, Essendon are losing players left right and centre because they have shown they dont work in the interests of a player.
Wouldnt pay the price for Dunkley
Players leaving left right and centre.

Collingwood on the other hand, has paid overs in the past for players but have also been seen to be willing to work with other clubs in a 'swings and roundabouts' secnario:
WCE - Pick 17 for Wellingham (which became Grundy)
Brisbane - Jack Crisp & Levi Greenwood as as steaknives for Beams

I'd rather be a club thats known to work on the best outcome for players and other clubs, in recognition of being able to actually get a trade done - rather than being so stubborn that we end up having players walk out the door for next to nothing
 
jathanas said:
Yes, no doubt but he shouldn't take all the heat for that one.



The way the club managed the Treloar contract is the bast*rd WTF moment from hell. That will remain a big stain on Ned Guy's CV but again was the 180 we did on treloar his decision?
Click to expand...

I think this is a problem when you have the body language issues Ned has. The members dont have any confidence that he is making the decisions and this undermines him...... which is why i posted initially that he has improved with the way that he presents himself. I dont think it solves whether he is going to do a good job.... but it was almost impossible for him to do a good job with his scared little weird guy attitude.
 
Spuddd said:
Really, Dodoro?

Brought in:
Shiel - two first rounders
Stringer - two second rounders
D Smith - Pick 11 and shuffling of picks

Lost:
Danniher - Pick 7 after being offered two first rounders from Sydney
Saad - Pick 8 the best deal by far


Not to mention, Essendon are losing players left right and centre because they have shown they dont work in the interests of a player.
Wouldnt pay the price for Dunkley
Players leaving left right and centre.

Collingwood on the other hand, has paid overs in the past for players but have also been seen to be willing to work with other clubs in a 'swings and roundabouts' secnario:
WCE - Pick 17 for Wellingham (which became Grundy)
Brisbane - Jack Crisp & Levi Greenwood as as steaknives for Beams

I'd rather be a club thats known to work on the best outcome for players and other clubs, in recognition of being able to actually get a trade done - rather than being so stubborn that we end up having players walk out the door for next to nothing
Click to expand...

The wellingham trade happened in 2012, bit desperate to use that as proof our current list managers are best in the business... Which is what we should demand.

Also getting Grundy for pick 18 was a fluke, not some brilliant list management strategy.
 
Markfs said:
I think ned needs to take a significant responsibility for the renegotiation of treloars contract in early 2019. The fact that we tried to move him on 6 months later is puzzling to me. How is that trying to keep the side together?
and he's not new in the job...so his trade period performance wasnt very impressive
Click to expand...
I was under the impression that we asked about a trade for Rowell. They wanted Treloar +. We would have done it, so asked Treloar if he was interested. He said no. I don't think it was us trying to move him, so much as us wanting Rowell.
 
sr36 said:
I was under the impression that we asked about a trade for Rowell. They wanted Treloar +. We would have done it, so asked Treloar if he was interested. He said no. I don't think it was us trying to move him, so much as us wanting Rowell.
Click to expand...

I thought buckley indicated more than a casual inquiry of treloar...

but i stand corrected. I'm not following all these things forensically.
 
Kappa said:
The wellingham trade happened in 2012, bit desperate to use that as proof our current list managers are best in the business... Which is what we should demand.

Also getting Grundy for pick 18 was a fluke, not some brilliant list management strategy.
Click to expand...

personally, I'd be happier if we had the best recruiters in the business. my feeling is that if we're always picking winners, we sell them off at bargain prices.
 
Kappa said:
The wellingham trade happened in 2012, bit desperate to use that as proof our current list managers are best in the business... Which is what we should demand.

Also getting Grundy for pick 18 was a fluke, not some brilliant list management strategy.
Click to expand...
You're not getting what I'm saying.

The club as a whole acts in a way that positions themselves come trade time as a 'Team Player' who gets things done, assists players both coming into and leaving the club and generally is seen to be a fair negotiator. All in all, over a span of time, I think you'd find that Collingwood is either ahead or at worse case even in terms of trade value.

Then, leveraging your comparison to Dodoro and Essendon.

They are shrewd negotiators, asking top dollar for their players but also, tend to over spend when they actually land a fish. As a result, the place is toxic and players are actively wanting to leave the place. They are in a really poor position, player retention wise, yet they refuse to help players leave the club and also join it.

I'd dare say that players look at the Essendon case and think "why would I want to go there?", their overall player management is much worse than how we have supposedly treated Treloar this off season.
 

Remove this Banner Ad

As long as he decides (or recognises) that a list manager position is too much for him and leaves in January as has been rumoured then all will be well. The era where incompetence off field has been tolerated and even, in some cases, lauded has to come to an end and it needs to do so quickly.
 
MjJ23 said:
1. I think he did EXACTLY what was asked when he came in. Keep the 2018 list together where a significant amount of players were coming out of contract and some with big $$$ offers - Moore, DeGoey, Langdon, Phillips, Cox to name a few. All other than Moore coming off huge seasons. No one would have thought Langdon would barely play again, Cox would not progress etc.

2. Brought Beams in - cant imagine it was his decision. He facilitated it.

3. Trade period 2020 - This was clearly a club approved strategy. Im talking board through to list management and coaching. We clearly missed FA who wanted to come to us and lost our last final by 70. Lost the pre-lim and GF before that. THIS list for a number of reasons, injuries included was not gonna get it done. I think this trade period was not done well and the club should be open to criticism. IMO the draft achieved exactly what we wanted to achieve had we got better value during trade so its a pass for me. 5 of the best 31 players in the country and a 6th 19yr old ready made pressure forward.
Click to expand...
You nailed it.

- He inherited a list from Hine with 27-28 coming out of contract. Had to stagger the contracts to prevent that happening again. Hine can pick talent, but is a little one dimensional. In that respect Hine is no Wells or Dodoro who does Talent ID as well as list management.

- He did sign Beams, first task he had, as that trade had already been negotiated with the player by Ed "Get it done son". This is one of the problems of Ed's shadow at the club. Beams was 'only' on $1.4m over 4 years a good deal for us on paper. Cost us two first rounders but he'd finished the previous two seasons in the top 10 of the Brownlow and was seen as the missing piece after our midfield got trounced in the GF. Ned also knew in year 1 that he had Quaynor (bid from GWS came before our 1st pick) and Kelly covered in the draft as top talents who were tied to us.

- He lengthened contracts to better accommodate the list. Steele, Adams etc got signed to longer deals for lesser p.a. money

- But he has operated with a mandate to keep the list together. He's been too generous with contracts most likely and hasn't had luck with guys like Langdon. But again, I think with guys like Ed saying keep Grundy etc, we've played our hand with our cards turned the wrong way around. Even Rendell alluded to be asked about a 7 year deal and rejecting it. I think his candour is something which works against him in a club environment but is what strong organisations actually need. I don't think Collingwood under Ed and Bucks has been a place where people speak up too often.

- We got reamed at the trade table as the world knew we were in trouble on the cap. The Bulldogs have played it well and we don't even have leeway in 2021 to pay all of the contracted Treloar shortfall given Beams payout. Hope it's not the case by year end.

- Stephen Reilly should have told him to stay out of the media on the evening post his tough day at the office.

But a lot of this trade period was known about for a while within the club. It was known that some Best 22 players were going to have to be let go given the payments we'd been contracting.

Hopefully he has learned some lessons. He needs to toughen up with other clubs and with the Pies own players. He needs to be able to push back at the hierarchy or alternately the hierarchy needs to learn some lessons as well about being prepared to be more hard-nosed and let the odd player go.

As you noted, the draft night was an astute performance in trading and protecting our interests with Reef and Daicos. Thank goodness Reef wasn't bid on by Adelaide at pick 9, or it could have been an all around disaster for us with only one of Henry or Macrae selected.
 
Albert Parker said:
He needs to be able to push back at the hierarchy or alternately the hierarchy needs to learn some lessons as well about being prepared to be more hard-nosed and let the odd player go.
Click to expand...

the president needs to back the footy dept and not act like the head of the cheersquad. Members are still whining about the "fire sale". The question is what is the alternative? The president should be saying that to the members and taking the pressure off the list manager. Ed did a bit of that at the forum but he should be doing that all the time. The membership has unrealistic expectations about keeping all the players at the club. The president should be lowering expectations not increasing them. So to answer your comment, if the list manager needs to push back to those in charge, then something is wrong.
 
Albert Parker said:
You nailed it.

- He inherited a list from Hine with 27-28 coming out of contract. Had to stagger the contracts to prevent that happening again. Hine can pick talent, but is a little one dimensional. In that respect Hine is no Wells or Dodoro who does Talent ID as well as list management.

- He did sign Beams, first task he had, as that trade had already been negotiated with the player by Ed "Get it done son". This is one of the problems of Ed's shadow at the club. Beams was 'only' on $1.4m over 4 years a good deal for us on paper. Cost us two first rounders but he'd finished the previous two seasons in the top 10 of the Brownlow and was seen as the missing piece after our midfield got trounced in the GF. Ned also knew in year 1 that he had Quaynor (bid from GWS came before our 1st pick) and Kelly covered in the draft as top talents who were tied to us.

- He lengthened contracts to better accommodate the list. Steele, Adams etc got signed to longer deals for lesser p.a. money

- But he has operated with a mandate to keep the list together. He's been too generous with contracts most likely and hasn't had luck with guys like Langdon. But again, I think with guys like Ed saying keep Grundy etc, we've played our hand with our cards turned the wrong way around. Even Rendell alluded to be asked about a 7 year deal and rejecting it. I think his candour is something which works against him in a club environment but is what strong organisations actually need. I don't think Collingwood under Ed and Bucks has been a place where people speak up too often.

- We got reamed at the trade table as the world knew we were in trouble on the cap. The Bulldogs have played it well and we don't even have leeway in 2021 to pay all of the contracted Treloar shortfall given Beams payout. Hope it's not the case by year end.

- Stephen Reilly should have told him to stay out of the media on the evening post his tough day at the office.

But a lot of this trade period was known about for a while within the club. It was known that some Best 22 players were going to have to be let go given the payments we'd been contracting.

Hopefully he has learned some lessons. He needs to toughen up with other clubs and with the Pies own players. He needs to be able to push back at the hierarchy or alternately the hierarchy needs to learn some lessons as well about being prepared to be more hard-nosed and let the odd player go.

As you noted, the draft night was an astute performance in trading and protecting our interests with Reef and Daicos. Thank goodness Reef wasn't bid on by Adelaide at pick 9, or it could have been an all around disaster for us with only one of Henry or Macrae selected.
Click to expand...

Spot on. Need some luck and we got that with no bid coming on Reef (gotta wonder if he ran slow to help us out on the 2k, my 15yr old runs quicker :))

On Cap position - I think we are way ahead of most clubs and now have room to absorb the reduction and bring in a FA. Not all of Beams and Langdons pay out will necessarily be included in the cap with legitimate workers comp claims which they were negotiating.

Effectively, we bought in 5 players capable of playin multiple positions including mid/forward. I mean genuine Utilities not just elite mids that you find a spot in the forward line for. Thats a choice of 5 players on less than $500k to replace 3 players on just under $2m. Phillips while a gun wing proved he cant actually play anywhere else. Steveo was going backwards.

Not to mention hopefully the best player in the draft next year !!
 
Spuddd said:
Really, Dodoro?

Brought in:
Shiel - two first rounders
Stringer - two second rounders
D Smith - Pick 11 and shuffling of picks

Lost:
Danniher - Pick 7 after being offered two first rounders from Sydney
Saad - Pick 8 the best deal by far


Not to mention, Essendon are losing players left right and centre because they have shown they dont work in the interests of a player.
Wouldnt pay the price for Dunkley
Players leaving left right and centre.

Collingwood on the other hand, has paid overs in the past for players but have also been seen to be willing to work with other clubs in a 'swings and roundabouts' secnario:
WCE - Pick 17 for Wellingham (which became Grundy)
Brisbane - Jack Crisp & Levi Greenwood as as steaknives for Beams

I'd rather be a club thats known to work on the best outcome for players and other clubs, in recognition of being able to actually get a trade done - rather than being so stubborn that we end up having players walk out the door for next to nothing
Click to expand...
Dodo really burned the Dunkley’s too. He’ll never go to Essendon now. Not only did they refuse to get fair a deal done after enticing Josh to go out on a limb and request a trade while contracted, but they went back on their word that they’d rookie Kyle too. The whole family are pretty furious with him and the Essendon hierarchy.
 

🥰 Love BigFooty? Join now for free.

Markfs said:
I made this a thread because I wanted to say something positive about Ned. It can drift off into the sunset quickly but I need to get this off my chest.

I think we're all agreed that he looked like a rabbit in the headlights post trading period. I think a lot of that was because he didnt know what he should disclose after the rest of the list management team decided to run a closed shop. I think Ned thought he should continue to say nothing much after the trade period ended and he looked a bit like a goose... a scared goose...because it was really time to release the shackles and come clean about the salary cap issues to some degree.

After that, the actual strategies that the collingwood recruiting team demonstrated during draft day, showed a confident ability to try to get things done. I know it wasnt all Ned but he was part of a team that showed an ability to trade on the run and get good outcomes.

And I thought he improved on the members Q&A. He got on the front foot and volunteered to answer questions. He wasn't profound but he had a determined confident look on his face.

I think we're agreed that he had a few challenges when he came on board. He said he extended treloars contract to keep the team together for a chance of a premiership. It makes reasonable sense.

He may end up being a dud but I think he's learning and improving.
Click to expand...

He started off the lowest base possible from trade week.

That will go unchallenged for eternity as the worst trade period for an AFL club.
 
Apex36 said:
Dodo really burned the Dunkley’s too. He’ll never go to Essendon now. Not only did they refuse to get fair a deal done after enticing Josh to go out on a limb and request a trade while contracted, but they went back on their word that they’d rookie Kyle too. The whole family are pretty furious with him and the Essendon hierarchy.
Click to expand...

What did the Dunkley’s expect from Dodoro? It’s not a secret he is difficult to deal with.

Dunkley’s manager has a fair bit to answer as well. Terrible advice to choose Essendon when you have a year left on contract, it was always long odds it would happen.
 
regpies said:
What did the Dunkley’s expect from Dodoro? It’s not a secret he is difficult to deal with.

Dunkley’s manager has a fair bit to answer as well. Terrible advice to choose Essendon when you have a year left on contract, it was always long odds it would happen.
Click to expand...
When a club convinces you to ask for a trade and tells you it will get done, you expect it to get done. Despite Dodo being difficult, he’s appeased clubs before. He did give GWS 2 firsts for an uncontracted Shiel.
 
BEEG said:
Pies haven't won a trade for quite a while yes we did well with Varcoe and Howe but most at time thought we lost the trade or paid overs.

Since Ned has joined we have been awful at holding our ground and receiving fair compensation.

Club need to take a strong stand from now on.
Click to expand...
Howe’s been great but I still feel like we could have extracted better value from Ben Kennedy and Seedsman.

I don’t think we could have got much better for H.
 
mike123 said:
Howe’s been great but I still feel like we could have extracted better value from Ben Kennedy and Seedsman.

I don’t think we could have got much better for H.
Click to expand...

i would have traded ben kennedy for one of howe's legs...
 
regpies said:
What did the Dunkley’s expect from Dodoro? It’s not a secret he is difficult to deal with.

Dunkley’s manager has a fair bit to answer as well. Terrible advice to choose Essendon when you have a year left on contract, it was always long odds it would happen.
Click to expand...
Dunkley's actually contracted until the end of 2022 so it was even more questionable.

On SM-G981B using BigFooty.com mobile app
 

Remove this Banner Ad

I see improvement in Ned Guy

🥰 Love BigFooty? Join now for free.

Back
Top