IC17 2017 AFL International Cup

[TWLS]

Actually there is no large-scale international forum. Most clubs and leagues are intimately interested in their own development
to the detriment of the bigger picture. If there was more general awareness then volunteers would realize that
Australian Football is played regularly in over 50 countries now so large-scale flat handouts are impractical.
It is more a case-by-case basis.

That is the problem -Self interest always, but that is the road to nowhere overall.
You post a slightly rosy picture of International Footy which if true the talk of breakaway groups would not surface.
The AFL is now receiving the "Rivers of Gold" TV funding money, and it would be a good time to start putting pressure on, and the two people now running the AFL and the Commission appear to be reasonable, compared to previous office holders, and all things can generally be negotiated.

 

[RedV3x]

You post a slightly rosy picture of International Footy.

"slightly rosy". Probably an apt description. The AFL invests in areas beneficial to the AFL, namely the southern hemisphere and in combines.
There has been some improvement in aid given to organic football and these small amounts have produced effective outcomes,
but organic football is still basically left to it's own devices, save for a little guidance.

if true the talk of breakaway groups would not surface.

"Breakaway groups" would be the wrong term IMO. How about "complementary" ?
I see that localized groups could perform an important function in highlighting local issues and determining
what are the most critical needs or most effective investments to be made.

The AFL is now receiving the "Rivers of Gold" TV funding money, and it would be a good time to start putting pressure on, and the two people now running the AFL and the Commission appear to be reasonable, compared to previous office holders, and all things can generally be negotiated.

Yes and the first people to demand a greater slice of the pie are players and clubs etc. Anytime is a good time to negotiate.
Yes, investment in organic football and football in general has improved. IMO, reasonable increases in the right areas could generate quite amazing results.
I'm talking about Australian Football in the education system mainly here but there are a large number of subjects that could be addressed.

 

[TWLS]

The AFL has promoted the Grand finals for the Men and the Women in the August International Cup to their highest status yet. Inch by inch they are giving the event the prestige and awareness it deserves. This kind of stuff just has to come from them.
http://aflnz.co.nz/blog/2017/05/10/big-stages-for-2017-international-cup-grand-finals/

 

[RedV3x]

The AFL has promoted the Grand finals for the Men and the Women in the August International Cup to their highest status yet.

Yawn. For no nett effect. I actually quite enjoyed the women's G.F. at Punt Road.
It was an intimate experience shared by the international players.
The men's G.F. was good, but it would have been more intimate at say Punt Road after the women.
Did football gain by having the I.C. G.F. at the MCG. In all honesty - No!
I don't like saying that but it is the truth.

Inch by inch they are giving the event the prestige and awareness it deserves.

The I.C. deserves much better. The I.C. deserves some promotion and lateral thinking.
You need to get some independent people along to watch the games in Melbourne as they do in the country games etc.

 

[*Crash*]

The I.C. deserves much better. The I.C. deserves some promotion and lateral thinking.
You need to get some independent people along to watch the games in Melbourne as they do in the country games etc.

Did make me shake my head when I looked up and saw a big video billboard at the top of Hoddle St promoting the rugby league world cup.

 

[RedV3x]

Did make me shake my head when I looked up and saw a big video billboard at the top of Hoddle St promoting the rugby league world cup.

i cannot criticize anyone working hard within the limitations of the existing framework and there is simply
too much football choice in Melbourne for the general public to add watching some international amateurs
run around even with the slowly rising profile of the I.C. within Melbourne.
The country round works well. i even met a Victorian visitor to WA that went to a local game there.
Curtain raisers seem under the current AFL arrangement are ineffective.Twilight games or shortening the pre-game interval is a must.
Interstate sharing of the I.C. substantially adds to the budgets of the competing nations but there are some zero-cost options available.
AFL clubs should have open training nights promoted with clubs as guests etc.
It would be great if AFL notables attended some events. Unfortunately that clashes with AFL fixtures to a large degree
but past players, presidents etc could have more of a presence.
We have to look at the AFLW a little and notice that fans will transfer their allegiances down the line.
AFL clubs need to adopt and promote clubs (more) within their club framework.

 

[RedV3x]

Let's look at what the AFL could be doing for next-to-no outlay.
Currently the countries involved in the 2017 I.C. are counting down the days to the start of the event. They have countdown clocks visible.
Why cannot the AFL at AFL.com main menu have the 2017 AFL International Cup logo and a countdown clock with the number of days to the start ?
How hard is that ?
It's an "AFL" event. It carries the "AFL" tag so at least advertise it.
The AFL advertises every second AFL round as a "special" round. They need to take the same approach to the I.C.
It's an AFL special round. Australian footballers are putting in a lot of time and effort to especially to come to Australia.

 

[BigBrainUSA]

I agree that it's a bit annoying, the lack of advertisement. They could also be waiting for official confirmation of all the teams, but there have been enough confirmations on both the men's a women's sides that something should be out there already.

Again, as good as the atmosphere at the smaller grounds may be, the experience of playing on a "pro" ground, and the experience of playing at the MCG, is the main carrot here. I don't disagree with the fact that it's a hindrance for growth, but this is for the players, as well.

 

[TWLS]

I agree that it's a bit annoying, the lack of advertisement. They could also be waiting for official confirmation of all the teams, but there have been enough confirmations on both the men's a women's sides that something should be out there already.

Again, as good as the atmosphere at the smaller grounds may be, the experience of playing on a "pro" ground, and the experience of playing at the MCG, is the main carrot here. I don't disagree with the fact that it's a hindrance for growth, but this is for the players, as well.

Ok then who are the teams coming.
Apparently there will be a Mens Second Division comprising the Asian developement Countries ie China, India etc???????

 

[BigBrainUSA]

Ok then who are the teams coming.
Apparently there will be a Mens Second Division comprising the Asian developement Countries ie China, India etc???????

I don't know specifics yet. A split men's competition is the right way to go, seeing as though games with 200+ margins don't benefit either the winner or loser. But there should be, imo, a D1 and D2, with some promise of promotion (or at least first right of refusal, like in the USAFL) of moving up.

Based on the roster releases from WFN (and Crash can correct me as needed):
Men's: USA, Canada, GB, Ireland, PNG, Fiji, Nauru, Germany, France, New Zealand.
Women's: USA, Canada, GB, Ireland, Europe, Fiji.

I know there are a few up in the air but I won't speculate.

 

[NoobPie]

I don't know specifics yet. A split men's competition is the right way to go, seeing as though games with 200+ margins don't benefit either the winner or loser. But there should be, imo, a D1 and D2, with some promise of promotion (or at least first right of refusal, like in the USAFL) of moving up.

Based on the roster releases from WFN (and Crash can correct me as needed):
Men's: USA, Canada, GB, Ireland, PNG, Fiji, Nauru, Germany, France, New Zealand.
Women's: USA, Canada, GB, Ireland, Europe, Fiji.

I know there are a few up in the air but I won't speculate.

Definitely this. I'm sure there is some reasoning behind it but I could never understand why this is not how they have operated in the past. You could even have some "play off" games between the top two of the 2nd division and bottom 2 of the top division at the end.

 

[jatz14]

Definitely this. I'm sure there is some reasoning behind it but I could never understand why this is not how they have operated in the past. You could even have some "play off" games between the top two of the 2nd division and bottom 2 of the top division at the end.

The issue is how to split it? How does Nauru compare to Croatia, Japan, or Fiji?



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[NoobPie]

The issue is how to split it? How does Nauru compare to Croatia, Japan, or Fiji?



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Establish a seeding?....self selection?

I don't think the game lends it self well to competitive imbalance. Like someone else, 200 point losses are no fun for anyone involved.

 

[jatz14]

Establish a seeding?....self selection?

I don't think the game lends it self well to competitive imbalance. Like someone else, 200 point losses are no fun for anyone involved.

There is unofficial seeding, but when teams no only do not play each other, they do not play teams who play each other. Canada has not played an Oceania team since the last cup, and has not played a team that has. Seeding is just a wild guess.

They tried a seeding round last cup, but again, the cup isn't long enough to do it properly. Teams got knocked down the list because they had tougher seeding games.

They could self select, but then do you have decent teams decide to win tier 2 rather than be middle of the pack in tier 1.

Its a problem without an easy or good solution.

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[HawkAussie]

Wrong thread for me

 

[BigBrainUSA]

The issue is how to split it? How does Nauru compare to Croatia, Japan, or Fiji?

In the past, seeding has been done by previous results, and for first time teams, at the discretion of the AFL.

So if we were seeding teams, I would reckon that (in no particular order), the USA, Canada, GB, New Zealand, PNG, South Africa, Ireland, Fiji and Nauru I would imagine to be some sort of lock for D1. The newer and less developed clubs -- India, China, East Timor, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, etc. would form the lower division.

I feel like 8 or 12 teams would be a prefect division. There are five match days; the first three for pool play, then blocks of four in the placing finals on Days 4 and 5.

 

[RedV3x]

The issue is how to split it? How does Nauru compare to Croatia, Japan, or Fiji?

IMO Nauru is the benchmark for D1. If you can beat Nauru then you know you are playing good football.
Nauru is the most dedicated, passionate Australian Football playing country in the world.
They are arguably the best players per inch of height around.
They defeated the U.S.A. They out-marked and out-rucked a much taller opponent, quite spectacularly.
Because they only have a population of 10,000 people and no "talls" they cannot advance any further.

 

[RedV3x]

So if we were seeding teams, I would reckon that (in no particular order), the USA, Canada, GB, New Zealand, PNG, South Africa, Ireland, Fiji and Nauru I would imagine to be some sort of lock for D1. The newer and less developed clubs -- India, China, East Timor, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, etc. would form the lower division.

I agree, most of the top teams have been consistent for a long time now and it's easy to determine a developing nation.
Certainly the divisions should be based on skill not numbers. There still has to be some discretion.
How would you handle Croatia if they were to compete ?

 

[BigBrainUSA]

I agree, most of the top teams have been consistent for a long time now and it's easy to determine a developing nation.
Certainly the divisions should be based on skill not numbers. There still has to be some discretion.
How would you handle Croatia if they were to compete ?

Depends on how many teams are in D1. I wouldn't put them in my top ten, but definitely in my top 12. Just my opinion.

 

[Mitchell54]

Does anyone know if it will be live streamed? Wouldn't mind watching it

 

[BigBrainUSA]

Does anyone know if it will be live streamed? Wouldn't mind watching it

In 2014, the AFL streamed a handful of games. I am not sure what their plan is for this year.

I can tell you that I am hoping to have all ten USA matches (men and women) broadcast in some form, even if it's audio from the ground. I'm going over there in the hopes of leading some sort of commentary, but we'll see what happens. We'll know more as we get closer.

 

[*Crash*]

Does anyone know if it will be live streamed? Wouldn't mind watching it

Not finalised as yet but expect similar to IC14 where some matches were streamed (including every team at least once).

 

[TWLS]

AFL Asia have released on their web site the following info for IC17.
Teams competing;
China -Definite
Indonesia -Definite
Japan - Definite
India - Definite
Pakistan - Maybe
Sri Lanka -Maybe
Indo-China - 2020 hopefully
Interesting spread of Asian Countries there.

 

[BigBrainUSA]

AFL Asia have released on their web site the following info for IC17.
Teams competing;
China -Definite
Indonesia -Definite
Japan - Definite
India - Definite
Pakistan - Maybe
Sri Lanka -Maybe
Indo-China - 2020 hopefully
Interesting spread of Asian Countries there.

Sri Lanka is a go.

Do you have a link to this info? I can't find it on their site.

 

[TWLS]

Sri Lanka is a go.

Do you have a link to this info? I can't find it on their site.

The mention of IC17 is about halfway down in the article. There will be big interest in the performance of the Asian teams from that group, even though it is early days in their development.

https://www.afl-asia.com/2017-asian-champs-change-of-date/

Great to see AFL Asia powering ahead now despite the difficulties of spreading our game up there.
All this progress will eventually force the AFL to set up a PROPER International Footy Department sometime in the future.