Hawkeye2001
Rookie
If Nathan Buckley was in Essendon's team, would he be a better player? Can he get any better?
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If Buckley played for Essendon
- Thread starter Hawkeye2001
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Blight said a similar thing, you can't tell how good he is when every other player on the team is useless.
Mud
Mud
I'm getting fed up with the implication that Collingwood is a one-man side. That is complete bollocks.
In fact I reckon Collingwood plays better as a team when Buckley isn't so dominant. Like the other night against West Coast. Buckley was well held, I thought. But other players rose to the occasion. In 1998 Buckley missed a few games with injury in the middle of the season and we actually played better without him.
There is far too much emphasis put on individual players these days. At the elite A.F.L. level, there is really not that much difference in ability between the players that are widely recognised as "champions" and those who struggle to hold their place in their respective team.
It's just that we've got this "star" system that permeates every aspect of our winner-takes-all culture. And it blinds us to reality.
Sure Buckley is a great player.
But so is Shane O'Bree, Scott Burns, Anthony Rocca, Tarkyn Lockyer, Josh Fraser, Steroids Johnson, Molly Molloy, Rupert Betheras, Nick Davis, Leon Davis ... and you could go through the whole list.
The fact is ... unless you are a great footballer ... you simply don't make it on to the list of an A.F.L. club ... ANY A.F.L. club, no matter where it might be on the ladder.
But our star-obsessed culture wets itself over the Careys, the Buckleys, the Harveys, the Hirds ... even though the reality is that it is a very fine line that separates a best and fairest trophy winner from a splinter-bottom.
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**floreat pica**
In fact I reckon Collingwood plays better as a team when Buckley isn't so dominant. Like the other night against West Coast. Buckley was well held, I thought. But other players rose to the occasion. In 1998 Buckley missed a few games with injury in the middle of the season and we actually played better without him.
There is far too much emphasis put on individual players these days. At the elite A.F.L. level, there is really not that much difference in ability between the players that are widely recognised as "champions" and those who struggle to hold their place in their respective team.
It's just that we've got this "star" system that permeates every aspect of our winner-takes-all culture. And it blinds us to reality.
Sure Buckley is a great player.
But so is Shane O'Bree, Scott Burns, Anthony Rocca, Tarkyn Lockyer, Josh Fraser, Steroids Johnson, Molly Molloy, Rupert Betheras, Nick Davis, Leon Davis ... and you could go through the whole list.
The fact is ... unless you are a great footballer ... you simply don't make it on to the list of an A.F.L. club ... ANY A.F.L. club, no matter where it might be on the ladder.
But our star-obsessed culture wets itself over the Careys, the Buckleys, the Harveys, the Hirds ... even though the reality is that it is a very fine line that separates a best and fairest trophy winner from a splinter-bottom.
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**floreat pica**
Bloodstained Angel
Premiership Player
I think its a weakness in Aussie Rules culture generally - too much emphasis is put on individual 'star players'
Too often we lose sight of the fact that footy is a team game, and its really how well the team as a whole performs, not any individual player.
Sure, 'star' players are enormously talented and can sometimes win games by themselves, but I do honestly believe the media, the coaches, the fans and the administrators are mesmerised by the 'star' factor that seems to permeate footy culture at all levels.
If Nathan Buckley wasn't continually singled for 'star treatment' all the time then who knows ? Collingwood might actually start to play well and win games because not only will the spotlight be off Buckley but also the team and the club in general might get more balanced, fairer and less critical media coverage, which would be an enormous weight off their shoulders I reckon.
cheers
Too often we lose sight of the fact that footy is a team game, and its really how well the team as a whole performs, not any individual player.
Sure, 'star' players are enormously talented and can sometimes win games by themselves, but I do honestly believe the media, the coaches, the fans and the administrators are mesmerised by the 'star' factor that seems to permeate footy culture at all levels.
If Nathan Buckley wasn't continually singled for 'star treatment' all the time then who knows ? Collingwood might actually start to play well and win games because not only will the spotlight be off Buckley but also the team and the club in general might get more balanced, fairer and less critical media coverage, which would be an enormous weight off their shoulders I reckon.
cheers
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Gee Mudholian, being a Port Adelaide supporter I am guessing you really aren't in a position to have a crack at Collingwood bud and their player list. Oh and who is your star player. Can't think of anyone here.
amazonstud
Senior List
Buckley would be a very good player no matter what team he was in but whether or not his so-called directness with team mates would be accepted at the Dons is another question.
At the Pies he's a driving force and its public knowledge that sometimes he's too critical of teammates who haven't met his standards. Could you imagine what would happen if he bagged Hird or Lloyd for a miskick. Or better still what do you think would have been Dean Wallis's response if he had bagged him for getting caught by Fraser Brown in 1999. I think Mr Buckely would still be waking up.
It's good to see that he and the club are taking steps to improve his leadership and we may not yet have seen the best of him.
At the Pies he's a driving force and its public knowledge that sometimes he's too critical of teammates who haven't met his standards. Could you imagine what would happen if he bagged Hird or Lloyd for a miskick. Or better still what do you think would have been Dean Wallis's response if he had bagged him for getting caught by Fraser Brown in 1999. I think Mr Buckely would still be waking up.
It's good to see that he and the club are taking steps to improve his leadership and we may not yet have seen the best of him.
Chilli Afterglow
Senior List
- Dec 1, 2000
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If Buckley played for Essendon after leaving Brisbane, we would be a bad omen that would cause Essendon to continually miss the finals!
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So much for the afterglow
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So much for the afterglow
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If Buckley played for Essendon he'd probably be playing in the VFL side
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"Hey ,just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand"
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"Hey ,just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand"
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Despite the utterances of William Pitt the even younger Collingwood are very much a one man side. Buckley was way ahead of anyone else on the park against the Eagles.
Playing with a bunch of crap around you gives a lot of personal confidence and a lot of the ball. If Buckley was with a half decent side he wouldn't see as much of the ball and his performance would likely drop.
Playing with a bunch of crap around you gives a lot of personal confidence and a lot of the ball. If Buckley was with a half decent side he wouldn't see as much of the ball and his performance would likely drop.
- Moderator
- #11
Ok here goes
In my opinion forwards perform better when there is quality players around them,ie other forwards and midfield.Take lolyd for example, in my opinion his success party comes from the fact that he is getting fed the ball from the likes of Hird,Mercuri etc.But its also the fact that he is surrounded by quality forwards that also works in his benifit.Becuase once the ball is in there it doesnt leave, this along with the fact essendons forward line is shaped around loyld all contribute to the fact that he wouldnt be so successful in a poorer club.
Midfielders are an entirely different proposition.Having other quality mid fielders in the team increases the competition for the ball and hence they recieve less of it.Bell is a prime example, led the mid field at north and though it is early days, isnt getting as much of the ball at the dockers.Thats not to suggest he isnt as effective or dangerous.But one look at fletchers pary demise suggests that hasebly and cooks injection in the team last year, reduced his opportunities.
But with a player like Buckly who knows.I believe he wouldnt get as much of the ball in a stronger mid field side.
In my opinion forwards perform better when there is quality players around them,ie other forwards and midfield.Take lolyd for example, in my opinion his success party comes from the fact that he is getting fed the ball from the likes of Hird,Mercuri etc.But its also the fact that he is surrounded by quality forwards that also works in his benifit.Becuase once the ball is in there it doesnt leave, this along with the fact essendons forward line is shaped around loyld all contribute to the fact that he wouldnt be so successful in a poorer club.
Midfielders are an entirely different proposition.Having other quality mid fielders in the team increases the competition for the ball and hence they recieve less of it.Bell is a prime example, led the mid field at north and though it is early days, isnt getting as much of the ball at the dockers.Thats not to suggest he isnt as effective or dangerous.But one look at fletchers pary demise suggests that hasebly and cooks injection in the team last year, reduced his opportunities.
But with a player like Buckly who knows.I believe he wouldnt get as much of the ball in a stronger mid field side.
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LOL Sabre
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"Hey ,just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand"
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"Hey ,just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand"
What utter Crap!
C
choppyhard
Guest
Small correction, Stevens has always and will continue to lead Norths midfield.
Pardon my ignorance, but who is William Pitt?
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**floreat pica**
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**floreat pica**
Hawthorn + Buckley -x = Premiership
where x = his leadership skills
where x = his leadership skills
Dear Pessimistic,
Hawthorn + Buckley - all the players you'd have to trade to get him = A weaker Hawthorn
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**floreat pica**
Hawthorn + Buckley - all the players you'd have to trade to get him = A weaker Hawthorn
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**floreat pica**
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Pessimistic + stupidity = crap statements
Anyway, moving back to the topic at hand...... Buckley would be a champion no matter who he played for. I suppose Skilton wasn't a champion, because he didn't play finals until the end of his career? Ditto Trevor Barker and Hayden Bunton.
It's not Buckleys fault he has been surrounded by utter crap since he has been at Collngwood. Maybe they are about to turn it around. Their young players certainly show more promise than what they did a few years ago.
One thing is for sure.....if Buckley played for Essendon he would feel far more contentment with his career as a footballer than he does now. He desperately wants a premiership, and he realises now, that it may never happen.
Anyway, moving back to the topic at hand...... Buckley would be a champion no matter who he played for. I suppose Skilton wasn't a champion, because he didn't play finals until the end of his career? Ditto Trevor Barker and Hayden Bunton.
It's not Buckleys fault he has been surrounded by utter crap since he has been at Collngwood. Maybe they are about to turn it around. Their young players certainly show more promise than what they did a few years ago.
One thing is for sure.....if Buckley played for Essendon he would feel far more contentment with his career as a footballer than he does now. He desperately wants a premiership, and he realises now, that it may never happen.
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You need to watch blackAdder and other serious history programs. http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/PRpitt.htm
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Florence Picnose
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Surely buckers would prefer to go to a club on the way up!
Just to degenerate into a slanger
Dan24 + Me + Dark Night = DeadDan24
Dan24 + Me + Dark Night = DeadDan24
Buckley + not sending that fax to the roos = 2 premierships...."I left brisbane to play finals football" one of footballs greatest quotes.
Buckley would dominate for whatever team he played for. But he does not constantly singly win games for a team as shown at his time at Collingwood. Why he chose Collingwood out of all teams is absoloutly beyond me.
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