If Carlton lose all their draft picks...

[DaveW]

Does this mean they've effectively picked up Barnaby French for free?

 

[The Ewok]

Port still get a #18 draft pick, so they still get something for him, but in theory I would say yes seeing the #18 pick would of been stripped

But they lose 1 & 2 in the end so 18 means jack in the big picture of things

 

[myee8]

Originally posted by DaveW
Does this mean they've effectively picked up Barnaby French for free?

It would mean all hell would break loose in the AFL. Other clubs would be crying foul over this in that a draft pick they traded away is suddenly 2 picks higher. Take Richmond for example, which traded their #4 pick to us as part of the Carey trade. Now IF the loss of both Carlton's #1 and #2 picks does eventuate, it meant that Richmond's traded #4 pick now becomes the #2 pick for us.

Even as the beneficiary of this penalty, even i think it is unfair to Richmond and other clubs. It should have happened before the trading week, which brings this question: would trades like that of the Carey one and others that involved high or highish picks have eventuated if Carlton had lost their 1st 2 picks? Going back to the Carey trade, i get the feeling that Greg Miller would have been less willing to trade away their now #2 pick.

Thoughts??

 

[The Ewok]

Re: Re: If Carlton lose all their draft picks...

Originally posted by myee8

Thoughts??

Sports lawyers over the past few days have said that Richmond don't have a legal case in this situation (and Carlton don't have a legal case in protesting the stripping of their picks either)

 

[myee8]

Re: Re: Re: If Carlton lose all their draft picks...

Originally posted by The Ewok


Sports lawyers over the past few days have said that Richmond don't have a legal case in this situation (and Carlton don't have a legal case in protesting the stripping of their picks either)

Ok then, but you would be kinda ticked off if you were Richmond right? I would be, and while i admit i would be very pleased if i was North, i couldn't help but feel for the clubs like Richmond and co.

Now would you be willing to trade the now #2 pick of yours to us in the Carey trade? I am guessng few people would, and if not i don't blame you, and i dunno wot we would have got for him then.

 

[DaveW]

Re: Re: If Carlton lose all their draft picks...

Originally posted by myee8


It would mean all hell would break loose in the AFL. Other clubs would be crying foul over this in that a draft pick they traded away is suddenly 2 picks higher. Take Richmond for example, which traded their #4 pick to us as part of the Carey trade. Now IF the loss of both Carlton's #1 and #2 picks does eventuate, it meant that Richmond's traded #4 pick now becomes the #2 pick for us.

Even as the beneficiary of this penalty, even i think it is unfair to Richmond and other clubs. It should have happened before the trading week, which brings this question: would trades like that of the Carey one and others that involved high or highish picks have eventuated if Carlton had lost their 1st 2 picks? Going back to the Carey trade, i get the feeling that Greg Miller would have been less willing to trade away their now #2 pick.

Thoughts??

I agree. My preference would be for no action to be taken against Carlton in the upcoming national draft. The first two picks is way more than those serial cheaters deserve, but I feel the integrity of the trading system is more important. Come down on Carlton heavily in drafts thereafter. The AFL should've gone ahead with their original plan of postponing the trade week, they didn't and no changes should be made to the draft at this point. A #4 pick is a #4 pick.

 

[Tiger_Of_Old]

Re: Re: Re: Re: If Carlton lose all their draft picks...

Originally posted by myee8


Ok then, but you would be kinda ticked off if you were Richmond right? I would be, and while i admit i would be very pleased if i was North, i couldn't help but feel for the clubs like Richmond and co.

Now would you be willing to trade the now #2 pick of yours to us in the Carey trade? I am guessng few people would, and if not i don't blame you, and i dunno wot we would have got for him then.

#2 for johnson yes but only if another draft pick or player was involved.

cheers!

 

[Portia]

I agree that in principle, its rough to the likes of Richmond and Fremantle if Carlton's picks are removed.

But as I don't like either Richmond or Fremantle, and my club would benefit directly from this penalty, I say go for it! It'd be nice to have a screwed up AFL ruling work our way for a change.

I'd say that Fremantle as a club would find themselves in a difficult position to argue in any case....they traded their bonus Leigh Brown for pick #15 (now #13), so even they're not doing too badly.

 

[Pornstar]

Re: Re: Re: Re: If Carlton lose all their draft picks...

Originally posted by myee8
Ok then, but you would be kinda ticked off if you were Richmond right? I would be, and while i admit i would be very pleased if i was North, i couldn't help but feel for the clubs like Richmond and co.

So you're saying Richmond had absolutely no idea that Carlton may be found guilty of salary cap breaches and possibly lose their first 2 picks when they made that trade? Of course they bloody well knew it was possible but they made the trade anyway. Stuff them. Ticked off? Too bad.

 

[Tiger_Of_Old]

i believe we do have some sort of case.while it has been said but not proven that all clubs were warned that carlton might lose the 1st 2 picks the fact of the matter is the afl tried to have the trade period put back until this investigation and penalties decided.

that in its self puts us and freo and any other side who traded their 1st rnd pick a claim for some form of compensation.

all in all tho the whole situation is a farce.


cheers!

 

[Portia]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: If Carlton lose all their draft picks...

Originally posted by Pornstar
So you're saying Richmond had absolutely no idea that Carlton may be found guilty of salary cap breaches and possibly lose their first 2 picks when they made that trade? Of course they bloody well knew it was possible but they made the trade anyway. Stuff them. Ticked off? Too bad.

Well, you can say that, but really that makes the whole trading period extremely dodgy in the future.

If the clubs had seriously known that the AFL would take them away (which at the time most people reasonably thought that they wouldn't, after trading period failed to be delayed), then the only trade that would've eventuated would've been the Michael Stevens for Stuart Cochrane trade because it was about the only one that didn't involve draft picks.

You do have a right to know what you're trading for. The AFL might decide that clubs don't have that right, but it certainly wouldn't be Richmond or Fremantle's faults that they're being dudded...it'd be the AFL's for taking three years to investigate a cap breach, and not even sorting it out in time to have an uncompromised trading period.

Clubs made the trades because it looked like, after it was confirmed that the trading period wouldn't be delayed, that no penalties would be made to this year's draft. That is an entirely reasonable assumption.

 

[Tiger_Of_Old]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: If Carlton lose all their draft picks...

Originally posted by Pornstar
So you're saying Richmond had absolutely no idea that Carlton may be found guilty of salary cap breaches and possibly lose their first 2 picks when they made that trade? Of course they bloody well knew it was possible but they made the trade anyway. Stuff them. Ticked off? Too bad.

so what ya expected us to sit on our hands and not do nothing in gaining johnson knowing that we had offered our no4 pick which is quite reasonable compared to having pick no 2 and putting us in a stronger bargaining position to not only get johnson but at least another player or a higher draft pick?

cheers!

 

[Pornstar]

Originally posted by tiger of old
that in its self puts us and freo and any other side who traded their 1st rnd pick a claim for some form of compensation.

rubbish. I sold my Qantas shares for $3.73 and afterwards they went up to $4.80. Well bone my behind, nobody told me that would happen, i want them back! Poor judgement does not entitle the club to compensation.

 

[Tiger_Of_Old]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: If Carlton lose all their draft picks...

Originally posted by Porthos
Well, you can say that, but really that makes the whole trading period extremely dodgy in the future.

If the clubs had seriously known that the AFL would take them away (which at the time most people reasonably thought that they wouldn't, after trading period failed to be delayed), then the only trade that would've eventuated would've been the Michael Stevens for Stuart Cochrane trade because it was about the only one that didn't involve draft picks.

You do have a right to know what you're trading for. The AFL might decide that clubs don't have that right, but it certainly wouldn't be Richmond or Fremantle's faults that they're being dudded...it'd be the AFL's for taking three years to investigate a cap breach, and not even sorting it out in time to have an uncompromised trading period.

Clubs made the trades because it looked like, after it was confirmed that the trading period wouldn't be delayed, that no penalties would be made to this year's draft. That is an entirely reasonable assumption.

agreed well said.

cheers!

 

[moomba]

Originally posted by tiger of old
i believe we do have some sort of case.while it has been said but not proven that all clubs were warned that carlton might lose the 1st 2 picks the fact of the matter is the afl tried to have the trade period put back until this investigation and penalties decided.

that in its self puts us and freo and any other side who traded their 1st rnd pick a claim for some form of compensation.

all in all tho the whole situation is a farce.

cheers!

Tough luck for Richmond and I doubt that they are due anything other than a bit of sympathy, and plenty of thanks from North I think Freo might have got some sort of compensation pick for losing Jeff White but I think that was more a charity to a clearly struggling side than anything else. I would doubt that anything like that will ever happen again.

Either way, it is in Richmonds interests for any losses of draft picks to be enacted this year. Next year, with Wells and Goddard Carlton are a chance to finish above Richmond and if the loss of draft picks are delayed until next year the benefits for the Tigers could be negligible.

Moomba

 

[Tiger_Of_Old]

Originally posted by Pornstar
rubbish. I sold my Qantas shares for $3.73 and afterwards they went up to $4.80. Well bone my behind, nobody told me that would happen, i want them back! Poor judgement does not entitle the club to compensation.

what poor judgement did the afl come out and say that carlton would lose their 1st 2 picks? no and hell they havnt even decided on the penalty yet.
i can see us at the trading table talking to north and the crows.
hell we will give north our n04 pick which is really our no2 pick and u give us johnson and player x or high draft x because there is a chance carlton would lose its 1st 2 picks/

im sure north and the crows would have jumped at that

cheers!

 

[Tiger_Of_Old]

Originally posted by moomba


Tough luck for Richmond and I doubt that they are due anything other than a bit of sympathy, and plenty of thanks from North I think Freo might have got some sort of compensation pick for losing Jeff White but I think that was more a charity to a clearly struggling side than anything else. I would doubt that anything like that will ever happen again.

Either way, it is in Richmonds interests for any losses of draft picks to be enacted this year. Next year, with Wells and Goddard Carlton are a chance to finish above Richmond and if the loss of draft picks are delayed until next year the benefits for the Tigers could be negligible.

Moomba

in who,s best interest?norfs

cheers!

 

[moomba]

Originally posted by tiger of old

in who,s best interest?norfs

cheers!

Absolutely

In Richmonds best interests I would have thought as well. Pick 12 is better than pick 14, and I am sure seeing Carlton at the bottom for a few more years would upset to many Tiger supporters. Delay until next year Richmond might not get a benefit at all.

Moomba

 

[moomba]

Originally posted by tiger of old

what poor judgement did the afl come out and say that carlton would lose their 1st 2 picks? no and hell they havnt even decided on the penalty yet.
i can see us at the trading table talking to north and the crows.
hell we will give north our n04 pick which is really our no2 pick and u give us johnson and player x or high draft x because there is a chance carlton would lose its 1st 2 picks/

im sure north and the crows would have jumped at that

cheers!

I would have thought there were enough signs for Richmond to know that there was a chance that pick 4 might turn out to be pick 2. I suspect they made the trade, not wanting to pass up the chance on getting Johnson on the off chance that the AFL would show some balls, and now the main reason for their argument is to try and wangle some sort of compensation.

Moomba

 

[Stone Cold]

I say, vote "NO" for BJ Goddard, having dealt with him and his parents before, they are not the type of "Individuals(see Spider Everitt)" we need at our club!!!!! What Wells and Salopek may lack in football ability behind "BJ", will be more than made up for in "personality and dedication" to our great club!!!!!


So the message is clear, "JB & GT" stay away from "BJ" PLEASE!!!!!

 

[Tiger_Of_Old]

Originally posted by moomba


Absolutely

In Richmonds best interests I would have thought as well. Pick 12 is better than pick 14, and I am sure seeing Carlton at the bottom for a few more years would upset to many Tiger supporters. Delay until next year Richmond might not get a benefit at all.

Moomba

agreed pick 12 sounds better than pick 14 in anyones book and yes your absolutley right there nothing better than seeing those arrogant mongrels get what they deserve

cheers!

 

[Savatage]

Originally posted by Stone Cold
I say, vote "NO" for BJ Goddard, having dealt with him and his parents before, they are not the type of "Individuals(see Spider Everitt)" we need at our club!!!!! What Wells and Salopek may lack in football ability behind "BJ", will be more than made up for in "personality and dedication" to our great club!!!!!


So the message is clear, "JB & GT" stay away from "BJ" PLEASE!!!!!

Yes, yes. Just as your "Andrew McLeod to St.Kilda", "Steven Milne to Freo", "Leigh Brown to St.Kilda" rumours were all true.

 

[Tiger_Of_Old]

Originally posted by moomba


I would have thought there were enough signs for Richmond to know that there was a chance that pick 4 might turn out to be pick 2. I suspect they made the trade, not wanting to pass up the chance on getting Johnson on the off chance that the AFL would show some balls, and now the main reason for their argument is to try and wangle some sort of compensation.

Moomba

i have no doubt we still would have traded our no2 pick for johnson.
as for compensation perhaps miller knew that if the afl did have balls and we are succesful [altho i dont know how we would get compensated tho] we would in effect get johnson pick 12 and hopefully a 2nd round pick for compensation.

but whatever happens its going to be a huge can of worms for the afl either way.

cheers!

 

[Stone Cold]

Hey Savouy,

Just like: Barry Hall to Sydney, Beetham quits, Blight to be sacked: sometimes the mails wrong, but this airn't mail, this is personal experience!!!!!

KNOW BJ, DO YOU????? NOT!!!!!

Now, get back to your party, Di(khead!!!!!




Nice Photo, better than your other one!!!!! LOOSSERRR!!!!!

 

[Savatage]

Originally posted by Stone Cold
Hey Savouy,

Just like: Barry Hall to Sydney, Beetham quits, Blight to be sacked: sometimes the mails wrong, but this airn't mail, this is personal experience!!!!!

KNOW BJ, DO YOU????? NOT!!!!!

Now, get back to your party, Di(khead!!!!!

Nice Photo, better than your other one!!!!! LOOSSERRR!!!!!

Nice to see you start off your big footy experience on the right note.