If CP3 is MVP then Deron Williams is G.O.A.T.

super_phaser

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Thread starter #1
http://theassociation.blogs.com/the_association/2008/04/if-cp3-is-mvp-t.html

If CP3 is MVP then Deron Williams is G.O.A.T.

By Craig Kwasniewski

Forget MJ, Kareem, Magic, Bird, Wilt, Russell and Dr. J... the greatest of all time is Deron Williams! Sell the Air Jordans, stop being Witnesses and give away your Converse Weapons (the Black Larry Bird ones... of course) and cop a pair of the soon-to-be-released Air Williams.... Why?

Because Deron Williams owns the 2007-08 NBA MVP Chris Paul!

Seriously, do you remember a future MVP being so thoroughly dominated/owned/controlled by one dude?

Last night the the Utah Jazz travelled to New Orleans and blasted the Hornets 77-66. The "MVP" Chris Paul was a complete no show with 4 points and 9 assists in 33 minutes (he watched most of the fourth quarter from the bench as the Hornets were trying to rally from a late 18-point deficit). But this shouldn't really surprise anyone as CP3 has always had trouble against the Utah Jazz and especially Deron Williams.

Just look at the numbers:

In the four meetings (which the Jazz won 3-1), Paul averaged 12.3 points, 9.3 assists and shot an alarming 30.6% from the field compared to his season averages of 21.5 points, 11.5 assists and 49.1%. Against New Orleans Williams averaged 16.8 points, 11.0 assists and shot 57.4% compared to 19.2 points, 10.5 assists and 51.2% for the season. Based on stats and results Williams clearly wins the head-to-head match-up for 2007-08. And unlike the last two seasons where the Jazz were obviously the better team, Paul's Hornets have the best record in the Western Conference so there's no excuse (BTW - Williams career NBA record against Paul is 8-2).

So what's my point?

Can you even imagine likes of Kobe, KG or LeBron being so dominated/owned/controlled by another single player? The answer is plain and simple... HELL NO! They're too competitive to allow it to happen. But what about Chris Paul?

EXACTLY!

MVP my ass.

Love Chris Pauls blistering 30% shooting vs Deron.



Williams > Paul

Always and forever.
 

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plowking

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#2
Get off it. Some players don't play well against other TEAMS. If Deron was better he'd have a better record and better stats. Paul is avg more points, assists, steals on similar shooting percentages. He's also doing it with a worse team then Deron. It's often overdone about how bad Chris' supporting cast is, it's not actually that bad. He has David West, Peja, Chandler, though on Utah you have the likes of Okur, AK47 and Boozer. Both have similar types of supporting casts, though to say Deron is better then Paul is rubbish. The kid is the best point guard in the league, and I don't think Deron will ever catch up to him.
 

Theseventhhamster

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#3
Both guys got 4 points on 2-11, wow what domination. I'm not sure who is the bigger idiot, the blogger who wrote that garbage or the clown who posted it here.
 

super_phaser

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Both guys got 4 points on 2-11, wow what domination. I'm not sure who is the bigger idiot, the blogger who wrote that garbage or the clown who posted it here.
Jazz won series 3-1


Paul averaged 12.3 points, 9.3 assists and shot 30.6% from the field.

Williams averaged 16.8 points, 11.0 assists and shot 57.4%.


Domination, indeed
 

Borgsta

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#5
Deron also had 16 assists with his 4 points to Paul's 9.

The article is right. Cp3 as MVP is premature.
 

mdc

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#8
Deron also had 16 assists with his 4 points to Paul's 9.

The article is right. Cp3 as MVP is premature.
Who would you give it to?

The only reason for giving it to Kobe is that he's been robbed in previous seasons; which may be true, but is irrelevant to this season's race. Garnett hasn't played enough minutes and LBJ's team sucks.

There hasn't been such a clear-cut MVP since Garnett in 2004.
 

mdc

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#9
Btw, it's interesting to note that Deron Williams gets absolutely owned by Daniel Gibson. In their 2 match-ups this season Williams averages:
27% FG
5 turnovers
13 pts
8 assists

Daniel Gibson > Deron Williams. :)
 

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Borgsta

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#14
Statistically Paul destroys him, and NO has a better record than the Lakers, despite an inferior supporting cast.

Surely that's enough.
If either were true than yes.

Stats

Paul: 21.2 ppg, 11.5 assists, 2.7 steals, 4 boards

Kobe: 28.7 ppg, 5.4 assists, 1.9 steals, 6.4 boards.

Where is the destruction?

West, Peja, Chandler compared to Gasol, young oft injured Bynum, Walton??? Maybe you can include Walton.
 

mdc

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#15
If either were true than yes.

Stats

Paul: 21.2 ppg, 11.5 assists, 2.7 steals, 4 boards, .489, 2.4TOs

Kobe: 28.7 ppg, 5.4 assists, 1.9 steals, 6.4 boards, .461, 2.9TOs

Where is the destruction?

West, Peja, Chandler compared to Gasol, young oft injured Bynum, Walton??? Maybe you can include Walton.
I've added in two key components that you'd overlooked. Paul scores more efficiently and turns the ball over less. The Hornets also play at a slower pace than the Lakers (meaning Paul has less time to compile his stats).

All in all, it means Paul is significantly ahead. Using the two most popular statistical measures:
Hollinger's PER: Paul 28.48 (highest ever number for a PG) to Kobe's 24.4
Berri's Win Shares: Paul has 49 to Kobe's 37.

As for the supporting casts:
Bynum/Gasol (he's had one of them for most of the season) > Chandler
Odom and West are a wash (if Odom was playing with Paul he'd be scoring just as much)
Peja vs Radmanovic (edge to Peja, but both essentially do the same thing)
Fisher > Mo-Pete

Then on the bench, Kobe has Farmar, Vujacic, Walton, Turiaf...all of whom are better than the Hornets' best bench player, Pargo.
 

peternorth

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I've added in two key components that you'd overlooked. Paul scores more efficiently and turns the ball over less. The Hornets also play at a slower pace than the Lakers (meaning Paul has less time to compile his stats).
they do? source?

fwiw i thought the lakers with the triangle offence would be slow, but then again there are times LA just ramp up the offensive output.

Paul has more assists thus probably handles the ball more therefore has ample opportunity to up his stats.

LA also has more assists than NO.

LA scores more than NO

Paul is faster and runs quicker

Kobe is taller and fatter and slower

Kobe wears two numbers on his jersey = heavier

Kobe shoots more and deals with double teams and the like. he gets more tired.

I like chris paul

therefore kobe wins mvp just.
 

peternorth

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look, stats are great, 39% of stats are used properly to support a persons argument.

anyway i think intangibles are important when deciding this years mvp. both players have raised their game and therefore team to an unbelievable level. wouldnt begrudge paul if he won
 

Borgsta

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As for the supporting casts:
Bynum/Gasol (he's had one of them for most of the season) > Chandler
Odom and West are a wash (if Odom was playing with Paul he'd be scoring just as much)
Peja vs Radmanovic (edge to Peja, but both essentially do the same thing)
Fisher > Mo-Pete

Then on the bench, Kobe has Farmar, Vujacic, Walton, Turiaf...all of whom are better than the Hornets' best bench player, Pargo.
Gasol > Chandler > Bynum
Odom's production has dropped despite Kobe being more team orientated.
Edge to Peja??? Seriously, edge?
Fisher > Mo-Pete

Poor little bonzi doesn't get a mention, Ely and Turiaf are a wash for me and btw Gas and Bynum have combined for 58 games out of 78 games this year. Thats a fair chunk.
 

super_phaser

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Thread starter #21
Strange year for the MVP. No absolute standout players

You can make a case for Kobe, Deron Williams, Chris Paul, Dwight Howard, Lebron James, Kevin Garnett, Tim Duncan and maybe one or two others


However, I will say that whoever wins it will be a way better MVP than Steve Nash and Dirk Nowitzki
 

Borgsta

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#22
I love Deron but IMO you can't make a case for him. turns it over far too much.

however i'd love to hear your case :)
 

Inferno

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#24
It doesn't matter how well Chris Paul plays in 78 games, its the 4 against the Jazz each season that really count. Gawd! he got totally owned by Williams last game, 4 points each! total ownage, Williams beat him by 7 assists in one game therefore he is the better player, screw the other 78 games they play this season. Chris Paul might as well give back his 2008 All-Star spot and hand over his 2006 ROTY to Williams!

Statistics wise Chris Paul is better than Deron Williams (they play almost the exact same minutes per game, Deron plays slightly more) with 2.2 more points per game, 1 more assist per game, 1.5 more steals per game, 1 rebound per game, better free throw percentage, 1 less TO a game and has a much higher efficentcy rating. The only thing stat wise that Deron has over CP3 is FG% and 3PT%.

On the court both Chris Paul has been better. Now I know super_faser will go "omg Deron led the Jazz to the conferance finals last year lololololol" etc, but that was because the Jazz had the easiest run possible to the conferance finals against the one legged Rockets and the out of their league Warriors. Chris Paul made team USA in his rookie year and has led his team to have the best record in probably the toughest conferance ever, and will likely stay at No.1.

The new guy that does the R2MVP on NBA.com had a good point:
If you wanted a comparison, Joe Dumars used to stymie Jordan -- with a lot of help. Who's your MVP there?
Joe Johnson also beats Kobe regularly, so obviously Kobe should not be MVP because he plays badly again one team a lot.

Both are future HOF players, and even if Deron smoothers Paul most times they play against each other Chris Paul is clearly better over the entire season.

Oh and that blogger, no hit of bias at all. Can mention that Chris Paul only had 4 points, but fails to mention Williams had 4 points too.

Honestly I think LeBron should be MVP, but thats because I don't think the MVP award should have a lot to do with standings.
 

mdc

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#25
Gasol > Chandler > Bynum
Odom's production has dropped despite Kobe being more team orientated.
Edge to Peja??? Seriously, edge?
Fisher > Mo-Pete

Poor little bonzi doesn't get a mention, Ely and Turiaf are a wash for me and btw Gas and Bynum have combined for 58 games out of 78 games this year. Thats a fair chunk.
You're entitled to your opinion, of course, but there's very little difference statistically between Peja and Radmanovic when adjusted for minutes played and pace. The difference is Vladimir doesn't play as many minutes because the Lakers have Walton and Odom (in spurts) to take minutes away from him.

As for Ely/Turiaf...come on. Even Chris Mihm (who doesn't get off the Lakers bench) is miles better than Ely.
 
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