Analysis If Dustin Martin wins a 4th Norm Smith medal and premiership will he be regarded as the greatest player of all time?

[VicBased]

So far I have watched 1/4 of Ablett’s 2008 GF v Hawks and taken some notes. This is my busiest time of the year, but I will watch either all Ablett’s prime aged finals eventually or a good selection of them as my time opens up a bit more as it is a big undertaking. Currently working 3 jobs to keep the country running.

You might need to go out and get some exercise.

 

[Trav 20]

Martin played in a final in his 5th year.

Fourth.

 

[Sttew]

Meteoric Rise is a mess. Despite contributing more than 9% of posts in this thread and a whopping 675,234 words, he is still not making any sense.

 

[caveman72]

Meteoric Rise is a mess. Despite contributing more than 9% of posts in this thread and a whopping 675,234 words, he is still not making any sense.

He should hit 1,000,000 words in his next few posts

 

[blaisee]

Meteoric Rise is a mess. Despite contributing more than 9% of posts in this thread and a whopping 675,234 words, he is still not making any sense.

I think you should reflect on the fact that you took the time to work all that out.

Its pretty sad, understandable considering the pain Dusty has caused you, but sad nonetheless, move on man, for your own peace of mind !

 

[Sttew]

I think you should reflect on the fact that you took the time to work all that out.

Its pretty sad, understandable considering the pain Dusty has caused you, but sad nonetheless, move on man, for your own peace of mind !

Do you actually believe I counted the words?

Working out the %'s took me 30 seconds

BTW, Dusty caused us pain. No question. But I subscribe to the maxim, "there's no gain without pain", and the 2022 premiership bears that out. So I am happy

 

[blaisee]

Do you actually believe I counted the words?

Working out the %'s took me 30 seconds

BTW, Dusty caused us pain. No question. But I subscribe to the maxim, "there's no gain without pain", and the 2022 premiership bears that out. So I am happy

You are happy ?

bitter and twisted yes, happy, not so much

But suit yourself

 

[HAPPY CHEFFY]

So Martin is starting from a position of being way ahead of GAJ in finals, because you're yet to actually watch GAJ's finals...

I won't even waste my time commenting on your 8 year windows for GAJ and Martin.

Oh my.

But but but he obviously only watches stat sheets, not games. He’s too busy to watch games because “ain’t no one got time for dat!!!”

Hell, it’s already been 15 years and he still hasn’t had time to watch the 2008 GF yet, cut him some slack would yah..!?!

 

[Fadge]

But but but he obviously only watches stat sheets, not games. He’s too busy to watch games because “ain’t no on got time for dat!!!”

Hell, it’s already been 15 years and he still hasn’t had time to watch the 2008 GF yet, cut him some slack would yah..!?!

It's not hard to appreciate why Richmond supporters took a break from footy for a few decades over that time...

 

[HAPPY CHEFFY]

Meteoric Rise is a mess. Despite contributing more than 9% of posts in this thread and a whopping 675,234 words, he is still not making any sense.

But the poor lad is busy working 3 jobs to keep the country afloat.

Have some compassion.

 

[blaisee]

It's not hard to appreciate why Richmond supporters took a break from footy for a few decades over that time...

are you living in alternate universe?

Its like you pretend to forget the fact that you have won 2 flags in SEVEN decades lol

 

[Sttew]

You are happy ?

bitter and twisted yes, happy, not so much

But suit yourself

What would I be bitter & twisted about? As I said no gain without pain, and Cats go into 2023 with plenty of positives. But we are digressing here. This is a thread about Dusty being the greatest thing since sliced bread

 

[Aristotle Pickett]

Martin was good from game one, Ablett jnr was average when he started.
Wayne Carey said Ablett jnr is a bit overated because he wasn't a game breaker and that ranking up possessions was overated.

 

[Trav 20]

Martin was good from game one, Ablett jnr was average when he started.
Wayne Carey said Ablett jnr is a bit overated because he wasn't a game breaker and that ranking up possessions was overated.

Some Geelong fans know I'm not JNRs greatest fan, although still a huge fan, but his body of work from 2007 onwards renders his 2002-2006 irrelevant when judging his career.

He was still damaging and kicking 30+ goals as a small forward during that brief part of his career.

 

[Fadge]

Some Geelong fans know I'm not JNRs greatest fan, although still a huge fan, but his body of work from 2007 onwards renders his 2002-2006 irrelevant when judging his career.

He was still damaging and kicking 30+ goals as a small forward during that brief part of his career.

Agree.

I can't recall any other player who has been universally regarded as the best player in the game for a decade (2007 to 2016) in my 40 odd years of watching footy, so it would be unreasonable to downgrade your assessment of him because he wasn't the best player in the game for his two decade long career.

 

[Cdog71]

Agree.

I can't recall any other player who has been universally regarded as the best player in the game for a decade (2007 to 2016) in my 40 odd years of watching footy, so it would be unreasonable to downgrade your assessment of him because he wasn't the best player in the game for his two decade long career.

He is not universally regarded as the best player every year for ten years.

 

[blaisee]

What would I be bitter & twisted about?

You are bitter and twisted about Dustin Martin costing you 3 flags

You cannot get over it, that's why you can't keep away from this thread lol

It has hurt you so much that even a flag in 22 doesn't soothe the pain

Like I said its sad

 

[Aristotle Pickett]

Agree.

I can't recall any other player who has been universally regarded as the best player in the game for a decade (2007 to 2016) in my 40 odd years of watching footy, so it would be unreasonable to downgrade your assessment of him because he wasn't the best player in the game for his two decade long career.

What about Buddy Franklin?

 

[Sttew]

You are bitter and twisted about Dustin Martin costing you 3 flags

You cannot get over it, that's why you can't keep away from this thread lol

It has hurt you so much that even a flag in 22 doesn't soothe the pain

Like I said its sad

Anyone told you you keep repeating yourself?

 

[Aristotle Pickett]

Anyone told you you keep repeating yourself?

You mean 2019 and 2020?

 

[Noidnadroj]

On the balance of their careers no club would draft Gaj over Martin.

One was a mercenary that shafted his club, his club actually got better after he left, the other was a loyal servant that knocked back millions to stay loyal to the club that drafted him. The fact that GAJ still left Geelong, The club that made his families name, perhaps one of the most famous in history, the club that his father played at, for more money, TBH is a blight on his character. It confirms his as a mercenary. On the flip side, has anyone ever knocked back as much money as Dusty to stay loyal to his mates?

One was a selfish stat peddling footballer, the other is perhaps the most unselfish champion to ever play

Knowing what we know, you would be crazy to draft GAJ over Martin

I wouldn’t have been quite so harsh, but it’s a reasonable point.

In fact, Geelong won a flag after GAJ left the club …. twice!

And not only did GAJ take the money and run to GC. He then signed a very lucrative extension with them and wanted to exit early from that contract also … which after multiple attempts he did.

Gazza was an unbelievably good footballer. But Gaz was in it for Gaz, just like his old man. Their track record off and on the field show them to be less than ideal team players.

And let’s be clear, I’m talking about GAJ’s track record relenting to football, not his personal life. He might be a great person and great mate, I’ve got no idea.



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[Noidnadroj]

Ablett not the best in 2014 despite his season finishing at round 15 but leading the Brownlow through to round 21, and trying to include that in a 7 year period where Dusty was the best.

I didn’t think Brownlow votes were much of a guide?? … We get told that every time we mention Martin has more than 200 of them.


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[Noidnadroj]

How many times and how many different people do you need to tell you that comparing players' statistics from different eras, particularly when they played in different positions across those eras, is fundamentally flawed, before you come to the conclusion it is fundamentally flawed?

Refer to my earlier post highlighting the number of finals games GAJ and Martin played in the respective years of their careers as an example.

I mean, if you want to take the worst 7 finals games of GAJ's career, which I expect will be from the 13 games he played in years 3, 4, 17, 18 and 19 of his career, and compare them to Martin's worst 7 finals, of which only three were played outside of his peak 2017 to 2020 period, then be my guest.

But don't expect anyone who has an iota of analytical skills to take any notice of your comments.

Hang on …. you mentioned Martin’s 7 x BOG’s )he had 9, but you said 7) and said he had more fjnals where he was a non-factor. Trying to create some ‘smoke and mirrors’ that no-one would ever bother critiquing that Martin was somehow sub-standard in comparison to others outside his great finals.

But I did bother looking into it. And provided ample evidence for a multitude of superstar players where their collection of ‘worst finals’ was many levels below Martin - keeping in mind I didn’t remove Martin’s injury affected games at all.

And with your boy Pendles I even removed his 5 worst finals games across his career. Then compared his ‘next worst 7’ to Martin’s very worst 7, and stats were similar except Martin kicked 2 goals to Pendles zero - and I think comparing basic stats of midfielders from the same era is reasonable.

And I wasn’t needing anyone to compare anything from Goodes, GAS, Carey, Hird etc… just look at the ‘actual numbers’ each player produced. Look at all those stats in ‘complete isolation’ from any era, and give me your critique.

Just accept that all the facts point to Martin’s ‘poor finals’ being every bit as good and more often a lot better as the collection of poor finals from every superstar player from any era I’ve bothered to analyse: Judd, GAS, Carey, Hird, Goodes, GAJ, Pendles, Buckley.

I can’t be bothered doing any more (8 out of 8 having terrible finals records in their ‘worst of’ collection was enough), but the narrative of Martin’s finals record having holes in it others don’t has fallen flat.




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[blaisee]

Anyone told you you keep repeating yourself?

I am really sorry that Dustin Martin has destroyed your dreams ……… three times , at least you could enjoy the 2017 and 2019 grand finals and norm smith medals knowing it was not Geelong hearts he was ripping from their chest .

 

[Sttew]

I am really sorry that Dustin Martin has destroyed your dreams ……… three times , at least you could enjoy the 2017 and 2019 grand finals and norm smith medals knowing it was not Geelong hearts he was ripping from their chest .

I see. How many times can you say the same thing in different words?