Analysis If Dustin Martin wins a 4th Norm Smith medal and premiership will he be regarded as the greatest player of all time?

If Dustin Martin wins a 4th Norm Smith medal and premiership will he be regarded as the greatest pla


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Agree.

I can't recall any other player who has been universally regarded as the best player in the game for a decade (2007 to 2016) in my 40 odd years of watching footy, so it would be unreasonable to downgrade your assessment of him because he wasn't the best player in the game for his two decade long career.
He is not universally regarded as the best player every year for ten years.
 

blaisee

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What would I be bitter & twisted about?

You are bitter and twisted about Dustin Martin costing you 3 flags

You cannot get over it, that's why you can't keep away from this thread lol

It has hurt you so much that even a flag in 22 doesn't soothe the pain

Like I said its sad
 
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Agree.

I can't recall any other player who has been universally regarded as the best player in the game for a decade (2007 to 2016) in my 40 odd years of watching footy, so it would be unreasonable to downgrade your assessment of him because he wasn't the best player in the game for his two decade long career.
What about Buddy Franklin?
 
You are bitter and twisted about Dustin Martin costing you 3 flags

You cannot get over it, that's why you can't keep away from this thread lol

It has hurt you so much that even a flag in 22 doesn't soothe the pain

Like I said its sad
Anyone told you you keep repeating yourself?
 

Noidnadroj

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On the balance of their careers no club would draft Gaj over Martin.

One was a mercenary that shafted his club, his club actually got better after he left, the other was a loyal servant that knocked back millions to stay loyal to the club that drafted him. The fact that GAJ still left Geelong, The club that made his families name, perhaps one of the most famous in history, the club that his father played at, for more money, TBH is a blight on his character. It confirms his as a mercenary. On the flip side, has anyone ever knocked back as much money as Dusty to stay loyal to his mates?

One was a selfish stat peddling footballer, the other is perhaps the most unselfish champion to ever play

Knowing what we know, you would be crazy to draft GAJ over Martin

I wouldn’t have been quite so harsh, but it’s a reasonable point.

In fact, Geelong won a flag after GAJ left the club …. twice!

And not only did GAJ take the money and run to GC. He then signed a very lucrative extension with them and wanted to exit early from that contract also … which after multiple attempts he did.

Gazza was an unbelievably good footballer. But Gaz was in it for Gaz, just like his old man. Their track record off and on the field show them to be less than ideal team players.

And let’s be clear, I’m talking about GAJ’s track record relenting to football, not his personal life. He might be a great person and great mate, I’ve got no idea.



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Noidnadroj

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Ablett not the best in 2014 despite his season finishing at round 15 but leading the Brownlow through to round 21, and trying to include that in a 7 year period where Dusty was the best.

🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️

I didn’t think Brownlow votes were much of a guide?? … We get told that every time we mention Martin has more than 200 of them.


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Noidnadroj

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How many times and how many different people do you need to tell you that comparing players' statistics from different eras, particularly when they played in different positions across those eras, is fundamentally flawed, before you come to the conclusion it is fundamentally flawed?

Refer to my earlier post highlighting the number of finals games GAJ and Martin played in the respective years of their careers as an example.

I mean, if you want to take the worst 7 finals games of GAJ's career, which I expect will be from the 13 games he played in years 3, 4, 17, 18 and 19 of his career, and compare them to Martin's worst 7 finals, of which only three were played outside of his peak 2017 to 2020 period, then be my guest.

But don't expect anyone who has an iota of analytical skills to take any notice of your comments.

Hang on …. you mentioned Martin’s 7 x BOG’s )he had 9, but you said 7) and said he had more fjnals where he was a non-factor. Trying to create some ‘smoke and mirrors’ that no-one would ever bother critiquing that Martin was somehow sub-standard in comparison to others outside his great finals.

But I did bother looking into it. And provided ample evidence for a multitude of superstar players where their collection of ‘worst finals’ was many levels below Martin - keeping in mind I didn’t remove Martin’s injury affected games at all.

And with your boy Pendles I even removed his 5 worst finals games across his career. Then compared his ‘next worst 7’ to Martin’s very worst 7, and stats were similar except Martin kicked 2 goals to Pendles zero - and I think comparing basic stats of midfielders from the same era is reasonable.

And I wasn’t needing anyone to compare anything from Goodes, GAS, Carey, Hird etc… just look at the ‘actual numbers’ each player produced. Look at all those stats in ‘complete isolation’ from any era, and give me your critique.

Just accept that all the facts point to Martin’s ‘poor finals’ being every bit as good and more often a lot better as the collection of poor finals from every superstar player from any era I’ve bothered to analyse: Judd, GAS, Carey, Hird, Goodes, GAJ, Pendles, Buckley.

I can’t be bothered doing any more (8 out of 8 having terrible finals records in their ‘worst of’ collection was enough), but the narrative of Martin’s finals record having holes in it others don’t has fallen flat.




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blaisee

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Anyone told you you keep repeating yourself?
I am really sorry that Dustin Martin has destroyed your dreams ……… three times , at least you could enjoy the 2017 and 2019 grand finals and norm smith medals knowing it was not Geelong hearts he was ripping from their chest .
 
I am really sorry that Dustin Martin has destroyed your dreams ……… three times , at least you could enjoy the 2017 and 2019 grand finals and norm smith medals knowing it was not Geelong hearts he was ripping from their chest .
I see. How many times can you say the same thing in different words?
 

HAPPY CHEFFY

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Just goes to show how great of a team we did have 07-11. It's why that same team would beat Richmond. As good as what Rance was for Richmond, Ablett was the best player in the game and at the peak of his powers in 2010.

Just on the whole money thing, you do realize Ablett was offered a similar amount of coin as what Dustin Martin got offered from Sydney?
We are talking 13 years ago so with inflation, if Martin was offered 1.6 million . . . he's packed his bags and gone.
They forget too that Bomber was purposely treating GAJ like s**t in an effort to get him gone.
 

blaisee

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Just goes to show how great of a team we did have 07-11. It's why that same team would beat Richmond. As good as what Rance was for Richmond, Ablett was the best player in the game and at the peak of his powers in 2010.

Just on the whole money thing, you do realize Ablett was offered a similar amount of coin as what Dustin Martin got offered from Sydney?
We are talking 13 years ago so with inflation, if Martin was offered 1.6 million . . . he's packed his bags and gone.

um it was gws, and um no, Martin is loyal and stayed, ablett was a mercenary and left
 

Noidnadroj

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Just goes to show how great of a team we did have 07-11. It's why that same team would beat Richmond. As good as what Rance was for Richmond, Ablett was the best player in the game and at the peak of his powers in 2010.

Just on the whole money thing, you do realize Ablett was offered a similar amount of coin as what Dustin Martin got offered from Sydney?
We are talking 13 years ago so with inflation, if Martin was offered 1.6 million . . . he's packed his bags and gone.

Martin was offered $1.4m over 7-years to go to Norf. He was close to going but ultimately chose his mates and loyalty over the cash, sacrificing $2m or so to remaIn. Gaz would have earned more than enough at Geelong to set him up for life 5x over….. but he chose the cash.

He then played in front of tiny crowds, didn’t play a final for 7-years, had no mates at the club, was a poor captain etc…..a brilliant player, but he lost his chance to be a 350-game Geelong player with perhaps 4-5 x flags.

And after tax, the extra cash he earned wouldn’t have been that massive anyway compared to what he could have earned as a Geelong hero.

It’s actually a bit of a shame, just as it would have been if Dusty left and probably finished with 1 flag, 1 NS and all the extra he had to show was 5 x Norf B&F’s and some extra AA’s being the superstar in a crud team.


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Martin was offered $1.4m over 7-years to go to Norf. He was close to going but ultimately chose his mates and loyalty over the cash, sacrificing $2m or so to remaIn. Gaz would have earned more than enough at Geelong to set him up for life 5x over….. but he chose the cash.

He then played in front of tiny crowds, didn’t play a final for 7-years, had no mates at the club, was a poor captain etc…..a brilliant player, but he lost his chance to be a 350-game Geelong player with perhaps 4-5 x flags.

And after tax, the extra cash he earned wouldn’t have been that massive anyway compared to what he could have earned as a Geelong hero.

It’s actually a bit of a shame, just as it would have been if Dusty left and probably finished with 1 flag, 1 NS and all the extra he had to show was 5 x Norf B&F’s and some extra AA’s being the superstar in a crud team.


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You conveniently overlook that the AFL orchestrated the GAJ move, every aspect of it. The AFL wanted the leagues No.1 marquee player at GC.

Cats could not match what was offered but could have gone close, but that would most likely have seen players like Bartel headhunted elsewhere
 

Fadge

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You conveniently overlook that the AFL orchestrated the GAJ move, every aspect of it. The AFL wanted the leagues No.1 marquee player at GC.

Cats could not match what was offered but could have gone close, but that would most likely have seen players like Bartel headhunted elsewhere
GAJ got paid nearly twice as much to go to Gold Coast than what he would have received by staying at Geelong. The Cats were never going to compete with the offer as they have been the best team to manage their salary cap and understand you can't overpay a small group of players at the expense of the playing list.

Collingwood have learnt this the hard way, Carlton will learn this over the next handful of years, and I fear for Melbourne longer term (though with a flag already in their back pocket and likely serious contenders in the short term it is justified).
 
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So you can say 2007-2014 in that 8 year period isolated, Ablett is the best player in the AFL over the whole period rather than in each individual year, not in the conversation any other time.

It is not saying much that elevates him above Martin because you could as easily say Martin 2013-2020 is the best performed player in that 8 year period without question, though not the best player in every individual season. Where Ablett has done more of something for longer Martin has done more of something else for longer. But the way they are easily separated is finals output. Ablett despite your fantastic claims to the contrary is not considered to be anywhere near Martin on that score. Which is one of the tests you used to try to differentiate Ablett from Martin that he was “considered” the best player in the AFL leading into xyz amount of seasons. I will later watch Ablett’s finals in his prime and give an honest appraisal v Martin’s prime finals with which I am more familiar. But statistically and for impact and acclaim, Martin is starting from a position of being way ahead on that score. Bar your ratings, which says it all really.
Stop posting. You're embarrassing yourself.
 
Feb 4, 2008
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You conveniently overlook that the AFL orchestrated the GAJ move, every aspect of it. The AFL wanted the leagues No.1 marquee player at GC.

Cats could not match what was offered but could have gone close, but that would most likely have seen players like Bartel headhunted elsewhere

Nobody held a Winchester to his head and made him go, he decided to. And then he decided to return as soon as it wouldn’t hurt him financially. You can’t be too critical of a player wanting to max his financial returns, but you have to face facts when that is what a player does and you are comparing him to a payer who didn’t.
 
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But it is completely irrelevant to the ability of a player and his ranking as a great. Plenty of greats have switched clubs, eg., Ian Stewart , Ron Barrassi, Chris Judd, Paddy Dangerfield. Jeremy Cameron, Brent Croswell, Tony Lockett…. So move on

Go back to why it was raised in the thread in the first place. It is relevant to that.
 
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